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Market place ETHICS (not rules) and the lack of!!

Mar 21, 2008



      I've just been taken for a bit of a ride through the market place expecting to sell something to another member, she said she HAD to have it and would i please hold it and then would I mind blushing it and would I mind waiting another week for payments and then the payment finally came through and was cancelled by paypal (e-cheque) Now at the time I was okay with this as I didn't need funds for anything but instead of telling me that she had changed her mind about buying it I found out in another thread where the member had given a different excuse to another seller as to why they were delayed in their payment, and changed the waiting list on her signature...

      Debate topics:

      1. Ethics in the market place; I believe that you should inform a seller of your change of heart and wear the penalty if need be, if you no longer want the item. rather than leaving them to guess...
      2. Reserve sob stories for PMS and your own blogs/journals and stick to the facts the seller needs to hear ie: no money this week - sorry...
      3. Use your head and don't inquire about the sale of another item when you've just pleaded penniless about something you owe money on...

      I'd like to hear everyone else's thoughts because I'm really quite hurt as I went on a panic mission to make sure the buyer hadn't been injured or something more sinister, only to discover that YES she got my PMS (all of them VERY concerned for her well-being) and she just couldn't be bothered to reply..
    2. Gah, that's pretty aggravating D: I don't have all the facts but I wonder what she was trying to pull giving two different stories for why she had no money? I would have been plenty suspicious that she was trying to swindle you. What kind of feedback did she have a buyer I wonder?
    3. her feedback was fine but I'm only providing the story as an example of what I see as lack of ethical practices in the marketplace.
    4. For me when buying and selling whether it be on this board or not I believe there are a few key things that are good for business....especially Honesty and communication. With lack of those two things it's hard for a transaction or any sale for that matter to go smoothly and unfortunately online and in real life there are some people who don't do well with either of those things when doing business.

      Example: I bought an item (not on this board) I had great communication with the seller before sending payment, after I sent payment I never heard from them again...My package eventually showed up a lot longer then it was supposed to take yet the seller had never informed me of if they received my payment or if they sent out my item (they said they'd give me tracking number, I didn't get that either) so there I am emailing them over and over never recieved a response thinking maybe my payment didn't go through right, maybe I just got scammed? things like that just upset me I mean if you are selling/buying something how hard is it to log into your email/boardname etc..and send a message? I mean if there is a delay in the seller shipping the item (or buyer making a payment) at least say something I find it rude to just leave people in the dark.
    5. Perhaps I am old fashioned, but I believe that if you commit to buying something, you had better have a really good reason for canceling the deal.
    6. I'm the same way. There had better have been some sort of... monetary emergency or something... XD
    7. Things happen all the time, you've just got to shrug it off. I had an arrangement with someone in France to swap dolls. She approached me via my sale thread and offered to swap, we came to an agreement. On the day we were due to send the dolls off, I was about to head off to the post office and decided to check her address before I sent the package (I'm paranoid in case I get it wrong), and I find an email from her stating that postage will cost more than she expected and can I pay an extra $100 for the swap??? I couldn't believe it, surely postage is something you check before you agree to a deal? Anyway, I sent her back a pm stating that I didn't appreciate her changing the arrangements and I wasn't prepared to pay any more nor had I sent the doll. That was it. She never even had the courtesy to reply to my pm. I would never deal with her again or do another swap unless I knew the person. Yet she had good feedback and seemed as if she'd be ok to deal with. I still have the email she sent as an example of the rubbish people pull.

      Ethics in the marketplace? Some people have them, some people don't. The problem is that you never know which group you're dealing with. Circumstances can change and suddenly, I know my hubby will carry on about the money I'm spending on dolls from time to time and my hobby will have to come to a halt, but I would let the seller know rather than leave them dangling. Bills can crop up unexpectedly all the time, even little things like a higher than usual grocery bill or you find you need to replace kids shoes, clothes, necessities and suddenly the $100 or so for your hobby/layaway is gone. I wouldn't necessarily tell people that - 'hi, I was planning to buy your doll, but I just checked my kids clothes for winter and none of them fit so I'm going to be spending a couple of hundred at least buying jeans, shirts and jumpers instead of your doll'. I'd say that I couldn't afford the item. I've never asked people to hold anything for more than one day. If I've made a payment or arrangements to layaway, I stick to them regardless and the credit card bill goes up for a while.

      I think the problem is that sometimes this hobby gets a bit compulsive and there's no rational thinking behind things. How many times do you hear people saying they've got dolls on layaway, the credit card is maxed and they're still trying to find a way to afford a new doll. How much they should pay for their mistake, change of mind etc is between the seller and the buyer. I wouldn't hold a doll more than a week without the buyer placing some money down, but every seller is different. It's annoying when it happens. Hope your item sells soon.
    8. Unfortunately there are a huge amount of flakes in the DoA marketplace, and I've heard many many stories just like the OP's experience. It's a sad fact that the culture on this board isn't conducive to deterring them, either: on most forums it would be quite all right to post feedback under this person's name stating "this person is a flake - sell to with caution" and explaining the situation so other potential sellers could see it and make up their own minds as to whether to deal with this person in the future.

      As I understand it on DoA, however, because no money has changed hands then no feedback can be left at all and this person is quite free to continue messing sellers around to their heart's content, just as long as they never get round to the stage of actually paying for any of the things they lead sellers to think they're going to buy. Now, the rules of the marketplace have been decided by the mods and as has been stated many times in many different discussions, their playground, their rules. However, I really think this overly permissive nature is a major factor in why this happens so often here: no consequences for flaky behaviour leads to a large number of people taking no responsibility for their actions or the trouble they're putting other people to.
    9. As in so many other situations, it seems to me that communication is the key.

      You have to stay in touch.

      And while the truth of the matter isn't always lovely and you may not want to spill the entirety of your own folly... at least don't LIE to the other party. That just steams me...
    10. I'm definitely old-fashioned. If I find an item I'm interested in buying, I read the seller's terms and if I can meet them, I check their feedback thread. If it seems that they are unlikely to rip me off, I pm them to see if the item is still available. If it's a go, I ask for their PayPal id and I pay, right that minute. I expect to receive my item in a reasonable amount of time, and if it is as described, I leave good feedback. These are my rules for myself and I expect anyone who buys something from me to do the same. I have a list of people I have bought from and sold to and if someone has been shady or immature enough to jerk me around, I will never buy from or sell to them again. If I receive pm's from these people about items I am selling, I ignore them and if they are selling, I ignore their listing. I also read the questionable transactions thread and keep it in mind when shopping in the marketplace. I have had many wonderful transactions with DOA members and very few unpleasant ones and I think it's a shame that a few people try to ruin things for everyone. I don't think there's any excuse for dishonesty or being flakey when it comes to buying or selling here. It's actually a very nice priviledge and should not be abused.
    11. She had already sent the money and then canceled it? Hmmm... Sometimes unexpected things can come up that will throw off a sale. However, once money has changed hands, there had better be a really good reason to back out. I think that's kind of the point of no return for me. Once money gets sent the deal is going forward. At that point if there is some kind of money issue going on on the buyers end, its better for the buyer just to go ahead and get the item and then resell if you have to rather than cancelling a check or asking for a refund from the seller.
    12. I wonder if it was because her account had no funds; because with Canadian echecks, you cannot cancel them.

      This, this cannot be emphasized enough. By leaving out the flaky transactions, users don't get a full view of the person's buying and selling habits. And what starts as a flake can quickly become a bad marketplace transaction.

      Frankly, I always inform the sellers once I've shipped their items. As a buyer as SOON as I get the item (and get home) I open it, squee and then inform the seller I received the item and leave feedback.
    13. I sympathize with the OP, it is really annoying to deal with people who don't just say what they mean, and to read it on another random thread must have been the rotten icing on the cake.
      Personally I don't care if someone changes their mind and I don't need a reason (people return stuff to the store all the time). You don't want it, OK fine, just let me know. But yeah, let me know. Please.
      And even if you feel embarassed, just say what's up. Everyone I know has been short of funds for one reason or another. Just say, I have a problem, I'm so mortified, but I can't come through.
      Eh, and I hate the crickets when you send a PM. Just answer me please. Even if it's to say, Sharon! F off, I'm undecided or I have a drama right now whatever.
      Also I really hate to see the sob story WTS posts. People, give it a rest. If you want to sell something just sell it. Keep your dramas to LJ, for me it just taints the sale. I have a friend who calls it the "My cat needs a kidney!" syndrome.
      On the up side I have had many fantastic transactions, and people who have been unbelievably kind to me, like a member who actually bought and paid for a doll for me along with hers although she knew it would take me a couple weeks to pay her back. Amazing. I still tear up when I think about that.
    14. In my opinion and experience, I do not mind that much if someone had wanted something of mine, asked to have it held or implied it by stating a strong intention to buy, and then telling me they are no longer interested. I mean I am not thrilled, but it is ok with me. What I do NOT appreciate is if said things were done, but I was NOT informed that they no longer wanted the item. I do not think it should be my responsibility to hound down someone to find out if they really have any intention to pay.

      Now, if the money has changed hands, a simple "I don't want it anymore" really doesn't suffice. The transaction has taken place, and if it is no longer desired, the buyer can then become the sender. Obviously a real life emerency can warrent a refund. But then again, I have not been with this community for THAT long yet I have lost count of reading how many accidents occur and how many car repairs DOA users require...
    15. As a seller, I always appreciate being told when the item arrives. Otherwise I end up checking the Delivery Confirmation number a few days later and going "oh, yeah, I guess it got there okay". After a few transactions where I wasn't told if the item arrives, I put Delivery Confirmation on all sales over $5. It would be nice to know that everyone will tell me when the item arrives, but I know that's not the case. As a buyer, what kokoryta said pretty much describes me to a T, lol!
    16. I have only just started using the DoA marketplace to buy things, and so far so good. I follow the same protocol that I do on eBay: if I say I want to buy something (not put it on hold, but buy) I pay immediately, I ask if they received the correct payment and approximately when they expect to ship, and upon receiving the item I leave feedback.

      In one case (not on this forum, but on eBay) a seller had to delay sending an item to me for three months. But because they were honest and professional about it, I was happy and gave them good feedback in the end. They contacted me immediately when there was a problem (family emergency), explained the situation in matter of fact terms without playing for sympathy or blubbering a sob story, and they offered me a full refund if I wanted to cancel the sale. Then, months later, they contacted me to say that they were shipping, and I received my item safe and sound with even a little extra gift.

      To me, that's the proper way to handle an unexpected difficulty in a business transaction. Give information, not excuses, and be responsible. :)
    17. This really is a problem on DOA, and a big reason why I am reluctant to sell here. I buy here all the time, but to be given the runaround for 2 weeks over a $10 pair of eyes is just... :|:doh I don't have the time for this. At least on ebay there is SOME sort of backup system to poke people to pay.
    18. I don't think this problem is solely a problem with buyers. Recently my roommate had a doll on layaway and after sending two payments, she PMed the seller to inform them about it and ask if they'd received the second payment. They never responded. And she suddenly was sent a refund for them with no explanation. She PMed the person to ask them about it and they said that they had sold the doll to someone else.

      I would have thought the polite thing to do would be to reply and explain that BEFORE being asked about it or to honor the deal you'd already made with someone and finish off the layaway.
    19. Boy did you just say a mouthful. I've very much moved away from the DOA marketplace because I can't deal with the whinging and the drama and the stress of whether or not you will actually get the thing you paid for.

      I have lots of things to sell now (cleanout of the vast overstock of doll stuff) but I won't do it here because of the flakes. I simply don't have the time to deal with them and if I have to take the heat for toasting one then it's _really_ not worth it to sell here.

      Exactly on both counts.
      We've all made mistakes but you have to own up to them.

      Communication is key. Being realistic with your finances is key. Realising that no one actually cares about your life drama and not inflicting it on others for excuse, gain or guilt is even more key.

      The other thing that is troubling to me here is the naked greed. People will cut off an agreed to layaway to get more money from someone else. They will unexpectedly extend auctions in order to get more money, they will try to slip in un-agreed upon fees, charge extra for paypal, and say they have another buyer who offered more in order to get more money. If I hear another person say "it's the free market economy" I'll scream. DOA isn't a free market. It's a closed system of your friends and fellow enthusiasts. The do unto other rule actually says Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, Not do unto others then split.

      If you (the figurative you) want to sh*t where you sleep and poison the community where you play, that's up to you but it's not what I'm about. And it drives me mental when I see it happen so often with no consequence.
    20. I consider this behavior to be smarmy and dishonest. I would never do that to someone and I think she should definitely leave negative feedback so others will be warned about this person. By the way, if this kind of feedback is not allowed on DOA, there are other places to post it. I read those threads as well and post feedback there for flakey sellers and buyers.