Marketplace Etiquette

I have been very fortunate to have dealt with many wonderful buyers and sellers and I think that the key things are good communication and honesty. As a buyer I always assume that unless stated the seller could have animals or contact with them or smoke etc.... If you have an allergy it is worth asking the seller just to be sure. I always look at feedback and I usually only use paypal for safety. As a seller I think it is a bit petty to ask the buyer to cover paypal fees as it is your responsibility. Really as a buyer or seller think how you like to be treated and treat others the same way then all should hopefully be good.

 

You think maybe they are trying to learn how to be better? Try not to be snarky. It's unbecoming and bad etiquette.

The fee's are auto deducted from the price the buyer pays. That's why it is so important as a seller to calculate that into the asking price of the item. This way it's not a problem at all when the fee's are auto deducted. Asking someone to pay fees at the last minute actually hurts both parties, since if you pay the fee's on a separate thing, this payment has a fee deducted on it too. If you tack them onto the original price, a higher amount (since it's a percent fee) is taken. So now the buyer has lost a lot of money, and the seller has too.

When people ask me to pay fee's like this it shows me that they haven't taken the time to learn and understand how paypal works. It also makes me feel like they aren't responsible, since a responsible person would take the time to learn about the workings of paypal. To be a good seller you are expected to learn and use the tools you sell with correctly. Report people who ask you to pay the fees.

I feel like it is distasteful to make a "profit" off of a doll. When selling a doll I feel like the goal should be to break even for what you originally paid for the doll. Dolls are not investments and they rarely go up in value. So personally I feel like its a bit rude to try and make money off of them. It feel like you are missing the entire point of collecting bjd's. But this is my personal feeling.

 

My biggest marketplace pet peeve has been when someone asked me about a wig, wanted to know shipping because they wanted to buy it and after I made a trip to the post office to get the price for them, they never replied back to me.

 

Think of it as the difference between credit card processing fees and sales taxes. Let's say you go into a store and buy a bag of chips that costs $3. The cashier rings you up and asks you to pay $3.10--the chips plus taxes. You then swipe your card, and ultimately the store gets (let's say) $2.90. Ten cents went to taxes, and another ten to the credit card company for their processing fee. The taxes are the equivalent of a seller asking a buyer to pay the Paypal fee--quoting you $30 but then asking you to pay $31.20* to cover the fees--which is against the terms of service. The price the seller quoted was $30, and that's what they should be asking the buyer to send them. The invisible card fee is the same as Paypal's fee--you never see it, but it comes out of the seller's profits. The seller quoted $30 and you sent $30 (meaning they received $28.83*); the $1.17 missing was taken out of their profit, but you as the buyer never actually see this happen.

Adding to the quoted price isn't the same as "asking to pay the fee." If you say the price is $32 because you want at least $30 for the item, then the price is $32 and that's what you ask for. If you instead say "the price is $30 + $2 to cover Paypal," however, that's not allowed. Basically, you can't factor it out or treat it like a tax, it has to be considered part of your pricing. Pricing isn't a simple thing to always work out; when one works out the pricing on their handmade goods, for instance, they have to consider the cost of materials, packaging, time spent working on it, incidentals (for instance, thread), and what their profit margin might be. The fee Paypal takes (as well as the fee Etsy takes, or eBay takes) is one of the many things that's factored into a pricing scheme. It's a cost of doing business, not a tax.

* These are actual amounts calculated using a fee calculator.

 

Thank you for your explanation of PayPal fees. However, what you said in the last paragraph isn't very nice.
What I meant by 'profit' is the total money I'm making, and not the literal meaning of profit in business terms (Revenue - Cost = Profit). Also, I am currently selling a doll which I spent so much money on giving a face-up (which includes buying an entire Airbrush set and I haven't even calculated that in the price), I think I deserve to make a profit in the end after all that trouble and hard-work I've put into it, and not just to break even. I respect your personal take on this issue, I feel like it is also weird to pay more for a doll than what it originally costs, in a buyer's perspective, but if it's modified, and looks better than the blank resin version, then that's up to the seller to add whatever mark-up they want, the buyer has the choice to buy or not to buy. Telling me I'm missing the whole point of collecting BJDs is hurtful :-(

Thank you so much for your explanation, I understand it a lot better now. Basically asking for the PP fees separately is not okay, but adding it to the price to cover an estimate of the PP fees or the actual calculation is okay? Hope I didn't understand this wrong again ^^;

 

Yes, that's exactly right. It needs to be factored into the cost, same as any other cost of doing business, rather than tacked on at the end as a tax.

As for the topic of whether or not it's "right" to make a profit off selling a doll... The marketplace prices are determined by two things. The prices sellers think are correct to place on their dolls, and the prices buyers think are correct to pay. If a seller feels the doll is worth more than the original price (desirable mods or aesthetics, extras like clothes added, limited edition sculpt or aesthetics, rarity, etc), they are fully within their rights to price it however they want. If no buyer wants to pay it, however, they will have to either wait patiently, or bring the price down. If people ARE willing to buy at that price, however, then that price is a current market valuation of that doll, and there is nothing wrong with selling for more than the buying price.

I've only sold one full doll. She was a limited sculpt, who was in a lot of demand at the time, and yes, I did receive more than I paid, and no, there is nothing wrong with that. In fact, as it didn't take me long at all to sell her, I may have even undervalued her. The company selling price is not the same as the marketplace price. You can "feel like" it's "bad" to make a profit when selling a doll, but that doesn't mean it actually is, and pricing a doll above its ordinary selling price is not an example of poor etiquette.

That said, if you're selling something readily available, but heavily overvaluing it? Don't expect to make that sale. (I've recently seen in the marketplace a head for sale with a roughly average faceup, priced at more than double what the same head goes for from the company. Overvalued? Yes. Poor etiquette? No.)

 

Yes that's what I meant too, the seller can price it however they like, it is up to them, and just like you said, if it's overpriced, most likely no one will want to buy it and find another alternative!

Thanks again!

 

Paypal is a service that must be paid for, just like most any other service. I never ask for PP fees and I don't like taking personal payments, especially for big ticket items like dolls or expensive clothing etc.

If a seller lists something for a certain amount or best offer, don't make a ridiculous low offer. And if the price is firm, don't try to haggle. Also, if trades are accepted don't offer to trade unless you have something of equal value that the seller is looking for. For example I was selling/ trading a pair of Volks boy boots that cost about $50 and I was looking to either sell or trade for girl shoes. Someone offered to trade a pair of keychain sneakers and it wasn't even a left & right shoe, just 2 right shoes. Ummm, no thanks.

 

The OP's multiple bad transactions and Marketplace ban happened well after the OP started this thread. The history is all laid out in Problem Transactions.

 

Paypal fees are only "straightforward" if you are in the USA and dealing in USD. For the rest of the world, it's not so simple. In addition to fees for currency conversion, Paypal also charges fees for international transactions. In Australia this is calculated as a percentage + a fixed fee amount. Now I have tried on many occasions to work out the fee and let the buyer know in advance what it is, but on every occasion the fee has come up as a different, larger amount.

For the purposes of full disclosure I do ask buyers to cover the Paypal fees, and here's why. Most people who sell on the Marketplace are not full-time BJD dealers. Most sellers do not make a profit and are not running a business. Most are simply members of the community trading their goods with someone else. In this scenario I don't see why sellers should have to absorb the cost of fees; it's hardly fair. I expect to pay other people's PP fees in the same way that I ask people to pay mine. To me, that is the equitable and decent thing to do.

As a caveat to the above, I don't think it's acceptable for full-time BJD dealers/sellers to charge PP fees, because for them it is a business. Anyone who runs their Marketplace thread as a legitimate business should absorb PP fees. I have had doll companies ask me to pay their fees, and while I've had to cough it up to get the doll it definitely did not sit right with me.

On another point, I think many of the topics raised here - such as Paypal fees, price markups and so on - are more ethical issues than etiquette issues. But that's just me being pedantic.

 

@ chizzie_shark: I do agree with the fact that most people selling and buying on the marketplace are not businesses at all, just wanting to get rid of what they don't use/don't like anymore. And yeah, I'm not from the US as well and thats why its very confusing! I'm actually dealing with a buyer who uses Euros, so not only do I have to convert it to USD I must convert it again to AED to see how much it really is in my currency, blegh. Such a hassle

 

Some people (I'm looking at you person who sells things for $200 more than anyone else) are pretty obviously profit seekers. It's frustrating, because I really want one of the dolls that they happen to be the only person selling... but based on their prices for everything else they're selling, there's no way I'm paying more than some people charge for a fullset, with faceup and outfit and everything, for not even all the resin pieces!

 

And what, pray tell, is the "entire point of collecting BJDs"? There are as many "points" and outlooks as there are members of this forum, and it is not distasteful to have a different viewpoint than you do. Equally, profit is not evil. This irritates the unholy hell out of me every single time this attitude crops up. I spent a decade as a professional salesperson, and my livelihood depended on profit. If someone is lucky enough to have an item that can command greater than original purchase price, then power to them, they're fortunate and they're well within their rights to reap those rewards. There's nothing distasteful about it, and they certainly haven't "missed the point". You simply view the hobby differently than they (and I) do.

As someone else said, oh, the irony.

Re: Paypal fees -- There's a whole huge thread on this already and I see no reason to totally rehash my responses in said thread, but I will not buy from anyone who openly requests I pay the fees, as that's a violation of Paypal TOS and I've no interests in doing that.

 

But why is it fairer for the Marketplace buyer to pay the fees than for the Marketplace seller to pay them? I honestly don't understand the logic here; could you explain your reasoning a little more?

As a Marketplace seller, I absorb the Paypal fees, because those are the terms I accepted when I opened my Paypal account. If I hadn't been willing to abide by Paypal's terms of service, I wouldn't have opened a Paypal account.