Modification Ethics

You know, I think my final say is this:

As with anything expensive...

Be it HOUSES. CARS. OR DOLLS.

We bought it. We paid for it. Our blood\sweat\tears\whatever went into that money.

What gives you the right to tell me what to do with my own property, unless we're in a contractual agreement, such as you would enter into in the case of certain neighborhoods that don't allow you to do certain things for cheaper housing?

Expensive things, such as mentioned above, are meant to be customized to the owner's liking. If you don't like it, don't look. Like Momma (or any good mother worth her salt) used to say:

If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all.

This isn't an ethical debate. Any mod that you want to do, should be done. It's your property and it isn't hurting anyone.

 

I'm confused. Why can't I do what I want with my property? If I buy a $5000 doll and drop it off my roof, why do people care? You can obviously think it's wasteful or stupid (and it probably is). However, you have no right to climb on my roof and try to stop me.

Personally I've always interpreted this hobby as being without limits. I've seen some amazing, incredible mods. And I've seen some horrible, "Oh god I can't un-see that" mods. In either case I at least applaud the person for thinking outside the box. Besides, who defines "good" and "bad"?

 

As beautiful as they are, these dolls (limited, unlimited, full sets, blank or in parts) are sold to us as products, not works of art. I'm not saying that a no artistry has gone into the making of the doll, of course it has, but what we are purchasing is simply a cast of the original. We are not buying a hand sculpted one-off original artist doll, so what we do to our resin does not affect the artist's vision in any way. They will always own the original, and if they so choose, they can make a thousand more casts. I'm fairly sure that the artists behind the dolls are fully aware of this when they release them onto the market.

Therefore there really are no ethical dilemmas here - at all. The only possible stretch I could think of is someone who modded a doll significantly then re-cast it and sold it as their own, but that is another topic altogether.

 

Wow. Just wow. This thread was both a very interesting and very frustrating read.

Selfish is wantonly ignoring the needs of another for your own desires. Does anyone need a doll? No. They can want one and having the companionship of a doll can drastically improve one's wellbeing in a therapeutic manner. But. At the end of the day, no one actually needs a doll. A doll is a product made for consumers. Simple as that. These particular dolls are sold with several kinds of options: blank, with faceup and clothes, and some of them are limited runs/artist one-offs. They are pretty, and they can be rightly considered art in some lights. The original sculpts/artist one-offs are definitely art. The cast-lings (for lack of a better term) are reproductions of the art. By the very options presented, they are offering up their dolls for your choice of things to do. You get it blank, you obviously want to make whatever you choose out of it. You get one faceupped and with the exact same wig and clothes as there are in the picture, you obviously probably don't want to change a thing.

The point is: you can. Once the doll leaves the manufacturer/artist, it is out of their hands and they have no say over what you do with it and neither does anyone else. I'm not going to be restricted from what I can try on my own doll because Big Brother Dolly says I can't do that. From a purely ethical standpoint, modding a doll or even outright destroying it for whatever reason is not doing one thing wrong or unethical. Even if it's a limited or artist one-off. Now, I'd balk at the idea of doing any serious work on an artist one-off, mainly because it's one of a kind and the original art, but these dolls are not Rembrandt's or utter masterpieces in the sense of historical and classical art at this point in time. They do not contribute to society as a whole by their mere existence (except perhaps to keep us dolly owners sane). Maybe someday they will be, but right now, not so much.

So if someone were to mod an artist one-off, since that particular piece was put up for sale by the artist (at one point), and since it's still a BJD, which by definition is made for being played with, edited, modded, and customized, I wouldn't see anything outright ethically wrong in them doing so. Would I do that myself? Whoa no, but it's not my doll. What's right for me is not necessarily what's right for all. The only rule that can be give to all is that it is they can do whatever they choose to do with their own property as long as they are not a danger to themselves or others, and not breaking any laws.

A friend of mine has a artist one-off body sculpt and she is trying to retain resale value on it, so she chooses not to mod it (she did sand it down, but that was more because the previous owner had done a not-so-good job on it and she was fixing it--I can't tell the difference between the original pics and her sanding job, so fine by me). Now, she is the one who modded my SDs nose and has heavily modded several dolls in her possession to make them fit the characters they were bought to represent, and one or two were ones she did just to see if she could and loved the result. Did she lower the resale value of those? Yes. Does she care? No. Should anyone else? No.

 

Once it is sold to you, it is yours to do with as you please, that is why money changed hands, rite? That is WHY the artist sold their work. They desired to possess it no more opting rather for cash. SOLD. Rights transferred.

If you buy something, what you do with it after it is sold might annoy the sculptor but there's JACK diddly they can or should try to do about it. If it really bugs them, they will stop selling their product.

 

As I will always say, destroying your doll on purpose (or wrecking any luxury item on purpose) is like taking $1000 to a homeless shelter and setting it on fire. It reflects poorly on you. It makes you look selfish and insensitive. Ideally, when you buy something so expensive and precious, you should treasure it and take good care of it. Accidents happen, but taking that nonchalant, "Oh well!" attitude about luxury goods reflects on your own poor character. I certainly wouldn't want to be friends with anyone like that. I could definitely never trust them with anything I owned, and I would wonder what this behavior extended to. Animals? People? The same kind of person who will wreck a doll and go, "Oh well, I'll just get another!" might say the same thing about dogs.

So sure, do what you want to your dolls, but realize that you're being judged. And while a lot of people say, "Oh, but I don't care what anyone thinks!" I find that the people who say that the most are the ones who actually care the most.

 

Erm, there is a difference between dolls and a dog -- I never find that the pet analogies work very well in these cases. Nor does spending money on a luxury item (even if it were to come to grief) negates giving to charity or treating other people well -- again, there are some big leaps in logic here. So much is relative -- like the words care and treasure (keeping a doll in a glass case vs packing it around on camping trips) -- even destroy (one owner's really cool horror mod could be another person's blatant and purposeful destruction).

Sure people will judge, but sometimes the judgmental attitudes (like some of the ones in this thread) look just as bad if not worse. I don't get how people don't see how selfish they seem when they get into a huff about other people's dolls. I mean, really.

 

The people that judge are judging things that are none of their business. Like Rosslyn just said, once it's transfered, it's done. it doesn't belong to anyone but the person who put money into it.
I'm one of the people that really doesn't care. Don't like my dolls? Too bad, because I do and that's what matters.
I have never seen anyone 'destroy' a doll on purpose, unless they thought it looked good themselves, and that's all that should matter. There's no reason getting your panties in a bunch over an item you don't even own.
If I want to throw my doll off a roof, I will do so. And no one should care. And that doesn't mean I would treat other's property the same. I know the value of money, and I think 99% of the people in this hobby do aswell and I would never damage someone's goods unless it was an honest accident.

 

Im new to all this but i've found this topic a fascinating read. I can agree with the I paid for it why cant I do what I'd like? as much as it does sound somewhat selfish when said outright but it is yours.

I'm into car modding and I go to a lot of car shows and there are cars i'd like to own and some of the car modifications I think are absolutely horrific! but what I think is tasteful won't appeal to everyone (clearly :S) lol

On the other hand when I was younger I used to buy 'My little Pony' with the sole purpose of modifying and making my own (some people would sell them, but i've kept mine) but on this subject as I was making it as far removed from the original I'd only buy cheap common ones so as not to remove a rare one from the market that someone may want for a collection, although yes granted these are sold im sure without the purpose of customisation, although when younger they're quite easy to mod ^_^

I havent yet got my own BJD; funds and too many choices are to blame lol but when I do I wouldnt hesitate buying extra heads to mod and play with to create something truly my own, who wants something that looks like everyone else's? after browsing the forum for nearly a year there are no two alike other than LE's, granted again there are some mods that I think "what on earth??! but its clear that the owner loves and cherishes the doll and has made it their own which is completely what this hobby is about, otherwise there wouldnt be the means to do so!?

...and if someone wanted to 'destroy' (all subjective) a doll then that is purely their choice.

I watched someone a few years ago take a rare LE £75,000 car round a track and accidentally roll it on a bend and crash into a wall, he had no track day insuarnce, the car is gone forever but it was his car.

If this makes sense lol

edited:typo

 

Although I agree that it is wasteful to go out of your way to DESTROY an item I don't think this is exactly the topic. We are talking about extreme mods, meaning that someone wanted to change a doll's features to suit their taste. Their taste might be "destruction" to you and a glorious make over to them.

As for the homeless shelter, some people might say that treating yourself to an extremely pricey doll is = to taking the food out of the mouths of starving children. Or that you could use that 1000 dollars to help poor people in your community instead of wasting it on a frivolous toy. Selfish? Insensitive? I am wondering about the logic here as I see this as being a matter of perspective and tastes etc...

Finally, I wish we could stop this comparison of dogs/cats to dolls. Dolls are not alive. If you mean that you don't trust people who you judge to be neglectful or uncaring to their possessions with animals or people I can understand your concern.However, extreme doll modification does not demonstrate neglectful, cruel, or indifferent behavior. It is a form of expression and even if it is not well executed, it is my opinion that the owner did their best to realize their vision.

I couldn't have said this better. Thank you.

 

Oh lord...just when I think I've seen it all in these debates I'm once more struck by the boggle factor.

I'm falling into the "why is this an ethics quiestion?" camp on this because ethically and legally, a person can do whatever the hell they want with their own property, be it alter it sensitively for the sake of art or punt it off a cliff, this is a privilege of living in a free society and whilst I may not necessarily agree with what that person chooses to do, it's absolutely none of my business or concern.

If we narrow the field to doll mods, it becomes something I give even less of a toss about to be frank because aforementioned people aren't affecting MY dolls and I'm not compelled to look at what they've done to THEIR dolls. We all chose of our own free will to come into it with eyes wide open and the bottom line will ALWAYS be that we're all in this because we loved the dolls and all happen to share a basic taste in this particular art form.

TASTE being the key word because really, no one is kicking puppies and murdering babies here, they're doing some stuff to some resin. That's it. The world will not end and people will not die because someone put a cut in scar on their doll, you (general you) may not like it, but that doesn't mean the person doing it is wrong to do so, it just means you don't share their taste and this is a hobby where personal taste is king.

I've also never bought this whole thing that seems to imply that once you've worked your arse off and paid your hard earned cash for this inanimate object, you should immediately build it a shrine and never touch it again because you could have given that money to CHARITY. Now, really, allowing yourself some happiness in life in whatever form that takes that isn't law breaking or harmful to others is not a BAD thing. It just ISN'T. If you happen to get your jollies tossing $4000 LE dolls into car crushers, your family aren't starving and you're not living under a bridge, good luck to you! It's not what I'D do, but it's not MY money you're spending is it, and it also doesn't automatically mean that you'd throw someone ELSE'S $4000 LE or, indeed a PUPPY, in either. It simply implies that you have a slightly different bracket of fun to me.

Now there have been times I've stumbled upon a photo of some mods, as everyone does, that have made me cringe, but it doesn't stop me sleeping at night and I'm pretty sure no small furry animals were brutally murdered in the process, so I can merely move on without comment and my life remains unaffacted.

I'm also pretty sure the sculptors sleep untroubled by such things, be they for aesthetic or engineering reasons because they still own their original sculpts, untouched and theirs forever. The nature of their jobs is such that they must release their "art" into the world for the consumption of the market and they understand this, so I don't really see how it can be even WHISPERED as a criticism in any way.

If we take Volks as an example, they have workshops where THEY will alter their own engineering FOR YOU to improve posability. They understand that sometimes, their original work WASN'T all that awesome and needed some help and they're not alone. There are an increasing number of companies who LIKE seeing the breadth of imagination used on their dolls, look at Pipos and their photo comps regarding modded sculpts, Dollmore's photo comps, Fairyland's happy donations to the DoA puki comp last year, they recognise that these dolls WILL be altered and have no problem with selling them blank for that very purpose.

Essentially tl:dr - It's yours, knock yourself out and if someone wants to get in a huff over the fact that I changed the way some resin looked, oh well.

 

It could be a waste of money, but it wouldn't be unethical. Unless such changes made the building structurally unsound and likely to harm some-one not involved with the mods AND the person/people making the changes knew in advance it would make it this structurally unsound.

Sorry, it's a bit of a sore spot for me - I get rather annoyed when people say things like "you can't do that, think of what it will do to the resale value!" Now, if you're into buying houses for investment purposes only, then it's a valid point. But if you're buying the house to live in, and have no plans of selling it for some while, then whatever makes the place better for you to live in.

Exactly. (Also, I confess I would not have expected Utilitarianism etc to be brought up in a discussion about modding dolls )

I'm also getting flashbacks to primary school here, but from a different perspective - that of "friends" saying "you shouldn't do that to your dolly because I prefer her as she was"

I'm British. I was brought up to believe that I should treat my possessions carefully so they would last longer, but not to treat them with so much reverence I was scared to use them. It's something I try to hold to even now (although I fail dismally when it comes to nice new notepads - I find it very hard to use them for the first time in case I spoil them. But that's just me fetishising them )

Making your own doll is one option, but not everyone has the skills, time, materials or - most importantly from my perspective - desire to do so.

No, but if they want to and they can, and it's not causing anyone any harm, then why not? We're talking about dolls here. I have no doubt there are some people out there who cannot make the distinction between a frivolous luxury and something more necessary, but I suspect most people can make that distinction (very young children excluded).

I admit I'm confused as to why someone would buy an expensive LE to mod if a similar but cheaper sculpt was available, but that's mostly just me being stingy

 

I agree - this is not a question about ethics. Taste/art/value are all highly relative, for one thing. For another, as has been stated over and over again, this hobby was started by a company that made figures and then dolls designed to be customized, and will happily sell you all kinds of products to alter their dolls - including all kinds of pointy and rough implements designed to modify resin.

I don't care what other owners do to their dolls no matter how they originally cost; I don't care if they worked hard or not for the money they used to buy said dolls. It's their doll, they can do whatever the heck they want with it. If they mod a one-off or rare doll that I reallllllly wanted but couldn't afford or lay my hands on, I might be annoyed. I would not see it as a violation of ethics.

 

I won't relate this to ethical issue until I must answer this: after I mod, now, what brand is it? Who's the sculptor? As the original sculptor didn't do such a (modified) sculpt. Or should we just simply explain: original sculpt by X, modded by Y?
I don't do mod so far but sometimes, I'm confused with these question. Haha... For me, it's like unfair to not mention or tag the brand in for example flickr but at the same time, it's modded. So, it doesn't belong to the brand anymore.

And is there a case when modded sculpt is sold higher price than original because of the mod make it looks 'better' (subjective matter of course)?
isn't it opening a chance to sell other people sculpt modified by other (I mean commercially...not in terms of selling secondhand stuff)? (Although there's no claim about the mod as the sculptor or make it a new brand)

I saw a doll was modded and I love her after being modded, though...if it's for personal use, it's ok...but how if a person makes 3 and sells it? (Not in terms of mod by request aka mod commissiona)

 

I'm part of the 'owner can do whatever they please with the doll they paid for', but a few comments on the front page got me wondering. If someone owned a Rembrandt and decided to destroy it and perhaps advertised that they were going to do so in the newspaper - would they be allowed to? Technically they are destroying a historical artefact and as such, could be prosecuted? I guess the risk of modding LE BJDs or any artwork is that if the artist becomes famous for something else or BJDs eventually become true collectibles, then modding will devalue your particular doll and remove a valuable artwork from the world. Then again, who knows if a BJD modification artist goes on to do other works and their early modded dolls become valuable as a part of their artistic history. Interesting thought more than anything.

 

I suppose majority defines good and bad this is more of a grey area though. I wouldn't applaud a person for trying to be different for the sake of difference that's not even a bit creative.

Getting physical? No. I never said you can't do this or that I actually said that You should be able to do what you want . It's yours Obviously the lack of respect is not the doll itself but the people who are involved with the doll. You might think you are not sharing your doll but in a community like DoA you are sharing your doll that's why there are rules and guide lines so Everyone can enjoy. Like some one said earlier here there are some people who are horrified to see extreme mods so there should at least be a warning when posting pictures. So if people want to be rude and not concider others feelings then I think they shouldn't be on online communities just be in their room alone with there doll because then truly no one else is involved (vise versa)

 

Just wondering...is it even very likely that anyone on DOA would destroy or modify to the point of being unrecognizable their $5000 doll? I've seen a few $300 or less dolls here that seemed to come out on the short end after being modded, but someone almost always buys them to "rescue" if the price is right. After reading all the comments after mine, I still think that people should feel free to mod their dolls if they wish, or keep them mint-in-the-box if they prefer that.

 

LMAO at this! People taking customizable objects and then customizing them?! *gasp* How DARE they?

They are made to be modified and customized, what is the big deal? Even if you buy a LE and mod it so what? It isn't the original! The sculptor has the original.
No, it is not like taking a Rembrandt and burning it. It would be like taking a PRINT of a Rembrandt and then doodling on it to suit your taste.
Sure some people might be pissed because they did not get to buy that particular doll. And now someone have altered the doll so much that they would not want it anyomore even if given the chance. But that is just jealousy and has nothing to do with ethics. Not to me at least.

 

I like you. You make me laugh