Moral/Ethical issue with having a doll of someone else withOUT them knowing it?

Like a lot of people in this thread, I'm not sure if I can say there's a real ethical or legal issue with having a doll made in someone's image.... but I do think it's creepy!

There's a difference between basing a drawing or painting off of someone that you saw in a park or something, and sending photos to a third party artist and paying them hundreds of dollars to have them create a 3 dimensional miniature version of a person. It's so much more involved that it seems a lot more weird and obsessive...

Also, I think that the difference with a lot of celebrity minimees is that people want the doll so it can be one of the characters that person portrays, not the actual person themself (and I would say that yes, even a lot of band members and musicians have "characters" that they perform when they're on stage), which I think makes a big difference.

 

O.O I hadn't even thought of this! I think I'd personallly be a little creeped out it someone had a doll of me... It makes you think, what would these celebrities think of themselves being dolls? I guess they almost have to expect it in a way, being a celebrity... But in today's society, you really have no control of things like this. Someone can take your picture from across a cafe or coffee shop with their cell phone and you would never know it. And I don't even know what they might do with it...

 

I know this is going to sound totally crazy from what you all have already said, but Volks Alain looks a lot like a friend from high school and I thought it would be neat to have the sculpt. If I could afford him I probably would still get him.

I don't know what to say about he celebrity minimees. I really like them. I think they are cool. I guess I never really thought about what the person would think when they saw them. That is part of the reason I am trying to get rid of my Cillian Murphy minimee. I bought him without a plan and now I feel weird about basing him on Cillian the actor.

 

I agree with some of the previous posters. It is a tad creepy to have a doll who looks like someone you know, unless it was someone who you were really close with and they suddenly passed away and you wanted to make a doll as a remembrance of them....but even then I think I would still find it a tad on the weird side.

 

For commercial items or for publications, people used for models or appearing in photos and films sign releases to allow their images/faces to be used. Posting things on the internet counts (usually) as publishing. And it's not strictly necessary to be making money off things to require model releases and other kinds or releases.

Even if you are a public figure, you still have rights and people need to get releases for many uses.

Creating a doll that looks similar to another person... I guess it depends on how close you get. With copyright infringement, a lot of the case depends on how recognizably ripped off the image is. You can't get in trouble for a doll with merely the same eye and hair color/style as another person, since there are only so many ways to look and people can have similar styles.

But actually using someone's photo to make a minimee and trying hard to recreate the other person... Yeah, stalker-ish! Not sure if it's illegal, but it's strange. If you merely like how they look and want that for a doll... I don't know... the dolls rarely look THAT much like the person they are supposed to look like (and minimees only say they will get a certain percentage close, and they aren't responsible for faceups or how you dress them), so it's a hard call. Maybe you just like a certain shaped face? I suppose the ethics part comes in when you're doing it for a bad or creepy reason...?

At any rate, there ARE legal, moral and ethical issues involved... in some cases more than others, when you're coming recognizably/very close in reproducing a living person or someone else's creation.

Dolls that are inspired by certain looks, or just happen to look like people, that's another thing entirely. Some people will look like other people... dolls will look like other dolls or some people... that's just life.

 

We all seem to have the same opinion more or less on this subject, but what about this? My Grandmother just passed away in January, how would it be if i took our family pictures and had a doll minimee of her? would that be crossing that thin line or would it be more widely accepted, since she was my very much loved Grandmommy?

 

I would still find it odd, but on a wholly different level.

I hate Minimees. From my point of veiw, the whole point of them was to create our own original concepts and characters into doll form, but seeing an OC Minimee is so rare becuase of the price and personalization of it. I don't like realistic dolls as is, so Minimees go Uncanny Valley for me.

 

kit_a_83, if your immediate family is ok with it (because they'll see this doll often and it might upset them), that might be kind of nice. Personally I'd be kind of weirded out, but if it helps you to have a tangible representation of your grandma around it'd be worth checking into.

As for a random person having a doll made in my image, that'd be kind of strange and definitely off-putting. I don't really think my face is sculpture-worthy. If it was some one close getting a younger representation of me - say, my mom getting a doll that looks like me when I was 5 - I might be slightly less squicked out. Only slightly though.

I'm more likely to try to find a mold that matches the person or character I want rather than go through a service to make a replica. For instance there's a manga character that I have a huge crush on and it's been fun trying to figure out what mold suits him best.

 

gosh? something like this is forbidden?

unless, that person is famous...but well, i think whenever we use some benefit from others, we must pay them back...

in my country, we 'joke' that...oh, you earn this by using my (for example) face as the reference, then you must pay me...it was a joke...unless...that person sells more than 1 or millions valued...hahaha

 

This is an excellent point and exactly how I feel on the matter. I don't have any famous friends or anything like that, but I feel the same regarding celebrity Minimees. Celebrities may be in the public eye and media spotlight ten times as much as the Average Joe, but that doesn't make them inhuman. They're still people. That's why tabloid magazines and the like make me absolutely sick... It would be totally unacceptable if a magazine was solely dedicated to taking photos of "normal" people (often quite sneakily and without them even knowing it) and delving into their personal lives, such a publication would be banned or run out of business by protesters in an eyeblink. But for some reason it's considered "okay" and even socially acceptable for us to do that very thing to celebrities.

I can understand someone liking a celebrity enough to want to capture them in something as personal as a BJD form, but I just don't feel it's right. Most celebrities have probably NEVER heard of the BJD hobby and have no idea someone could be cuddling or changing the clothes of a doll that is a dead-ringer for themselves!

I have a favorite actor, Jackie Earle Haley, whom I just adore. But it wouldn't feel right at all to have a doll of him... Regardless of the intentions behind celebrity Minimees I can't help but feel they are somewhat disrespectful and/or creepy.

Relating all of this to the specific thread topic - making Minimees of "everyday people" - I don't think that is right either. For pretty much the same reasons I'm not fond of celebrity Minimees. Since, when you get right down to it, celebrities ARE just people like us.

 

A fun question... I think it would only be "stalkerish" if the resulting minimee sculpt was used to intimidate or frighten someone.

I personally don't do dolls that are meant to represent people from my real life. I know some people like to do that and more power to them if it makes them happy... but I feel a bit superstitious about it! I've had dolls of anime characters and at least one celeb, but she wasn't a minimee, it was just a doll that reminded me of one of my favorite movie characters.

I think if you want to do a doll of someone, they don't necessarily need to know about it. In general I think the idea of being made into a doll would creep most people out! The only exception that springs to my mind would be a mother having a doll sculpted of her child, one can understand that, though maybe the child would feel ambivalent about it!! XD I think my son would be 'weirded out' if I made a doll of him and told him it was meant to be him. If I were inclined to do this (which I'm not), I think it would be information best kept to myself.

Raven

 

I had heard of minimees before, but hadn't really thought about them until I saw this thread. Then I took a gander at the DoA minimee thread. I'll admit, I was seriously creeped out.

It was earlier stated the Celebrities/Public Figures understand that their likeness will be used, and someone mentioned something about some action figures using their likeness. There's a difference between going out and buying a Capt. Jack Sparrow action figure and specifically commissioning a company to make you a Johnny Depp head. One is something that the person is aware of and the other is, frankly, pretty creepy in my opinion.

On the same note, if I came across a doll (bjd or non) that looked like a friend or family member and I decided to purchase it, I'd tell the person before buying it. It'd be a "Hey, you wouldn't believe what I just found!" type of conversation.

Ultimately, I think the creepy factor lies in the fact that it'd be someone intentionally commissioning a doll that looks like someone without their knowledge. If they get permission before hand, I'd say go for it.

 

I think it's a pretty creepy thing to do. If someone made a doll of me without asking (and probably if they asked me if I'd allow it even) I'd want to move to the opposite side of the world! If someone made a doll of a friend of mine without asking, I'd definitely want to tell them, especially if they were close to the person who owned the doll. Honestly, I'm not even sure if I like the idea of a celebrity doll, although it's less out of the left field compared to making a doll of an acquaintance. Having said that though, I'm a very private person and having a doll made of me would feel like losing part of myself involuntarily, which I would find quite distressing, so I could never do that to someone else.

You might be able to get away with it if it's based on some stranger who doesn't live anywhere near you and happens to be in a photograph you have, but it's still a bit creepy in my opinion. And what if the person or someone they knew turned out to be into BJDs and found out?

As for photo stories, I definitely think anything sexual or controversial is out of bounds. I feel like it's almost comparable with photoshopping them into a sexual or suggestive photograph, even if the doll isn't going to look exactly like them. It might be funny as a friendly in-joke, but to do it as an expression of your hobby is quite a different issue.

 

I already posted this in the "spooky" thread, but i think it might also belong here.

Because i have a doll that is a carbon copy of someone i once new, and though i really did not intend it, wonder if it is ethical to keep him.

My story:
When i got one of my boys in the sales pics i did not notice anything. When i recieved him he kind of reminded me of someone i knew a long time ago and have not met since somewhere around 1997-1998 (yes, im old). I planned a completely different style for him, so did not feel bothered. He was going to be a blue eyed, shoulder length blond instead of brown short swept back hairstyle etc.

Somehow i did not get around to change his eyes right away. He came from the company with random brown eyes. Then the company i ordered his wig from messed up the order numbers and send me exactly the hairstyle of the boy i knew. Then another company shipped me a free gift, a msd sized package of Marlboro's (his signature brand). In a surprise santa i got exactly his pants. I did not put any of these on him.

Normally i always remove clothes and wigs before putting them in their boxes. I was showing a friend of mine my dolls who was playing a bit with them while i was in the kitchen. When we had to leave quite fast, he put him in his box. After returning home, i opened his box to take the clothes off to prevent staining. I was shocked.
I have several big, big boxes with wigs and clothes, and he put exactly the right (or wrong) combo of clothes on him. Somehow he even managed to put a SD girl sweater i forgot about owning on him, which made him look even more like the boy i knew. He put a messager bag on him, and when i opened it, the Marlboro's where in.
My friend does not know the person in question and stated the clothes and wig just looked "right" on him.

They are so identical, it really, really scared me. Their so identical i think if anyone who knew us both saw them, id really have some explaining to do. They look so identical that if someone else had a doll looking this much like me, i'd go to the police to get a restraining order.

This person never had any special meaning to me, just someone who was hanging around with the same group of people. I googled him, there wasnt much, he seems to be doing fine, got a regular job and judging the pics in his facebook has a nice boyfriend. In the years between 1998 and now i can not recall ever thinking about him. I dont own any pics of him. I have no particular interest in seeing him again.

There seems to be no special meaning, seems like just one of those things.
Does scare me though.

 

I think it's definitely a little on the freaky side to have a doll made in someone's likeness w/o their consent or knowledge. I know it would scare the crap outta me if someone had a doll looking like me. Celebrities are another matter, however...not sure hoe I feel about it but definitely *less* creepy...

 

I believe that if someone posts their pictures online, they're fair game for any sort of alteration. It sucks sometimes, but that's just how it is on the net.

Is it creepy or stalkerish?

If someone found a face that would be just perfect for a doll/character they have in mind, I really don't see a huge issue with it. Now if you're going to their house without them knowing/finding stuff like their phone number or whatever else, or using the doll for devious purposes when the person who it's modeled after would be irked by, yes, that's creepy.

Would there be any types/genres of photos/photostories that are "not appropriate"?

I think it would fall under the creepy category if dolls were used for sexual stories and that doll was supposed to be that person it was modeled after, and if that person would not be okay with such a thing. At the same time, if their pictures were online, it's fair game whether or not we like it. :/

If you knew and were friends with the person that you know for a fact a doll was made to be him/her, would you tell your friend about it? Even if they're not a "dollfie" enthusiast?

I think in this case I would ask the friend. I just don't think that it would be possible to get around having a doll that looks just like that person, and personally, I don't think too many people would be insulted by that. I know I would want to know if a friend was doing that with my face. Some random person on the internet, I don't care as much about knowing.

 

Similarly, SOOM's Rex looks remarkably like one of my friend's boyfriends. I think Rex is an absolutely gorgeous doll, but I don't think I could ever own him because it would be too odd to have a doll of her boyfriend. What if he ever saw him and made the same connection? Awkward.

For the same reason, I could never commision a non-celebrity minimee. However, I don't see anything wrong with celeb MnMs. Celebrities are already used to being on posters, coffee mugs, action figures, etc, so I honestly doubt they'd mind being a BJD.

 

I'm gonna have to agree with some of the folks here and say that even celebrity minimees weird me out. I don't like the idea of someone taking another person's face and making a doll out of it without their permission. Just because someone's a celebrity or whatever does not mean their likeness is available to do with as you (general you here) please, it's not a popular opinion, but it squicks me out I can't help it.

The same goes for a minimee of someone you know but don't tell them... that seems a bit bizarre. It's different if it's a fictional character, cartoon, videogame char, etc. That's not a human beings face you're taking for your doll (again, general yous here). I've seen some minimees made to reflect someone's kid, or to commemorate a passed relative, and some folks have minimees of themselves and I think that's fine, you're not grabbing some stranger's face and slapping it on a doll body.

I honestly mean no offense to anyone, it is what it is. I would never dream to tell someone what they may or may not do with their dolls or doll money. You may spend it as you see fit and if you want to have an army of people based minimees that's totally okay, but it kinda goes into Uncanny Valley for me.

 

First off, since this thread is dealing with "ethical or moral issues" I really think it belongs in the Debate forum.

Secondly, I know there have been some threads where people said celebrity Minimees were creepy because you could conceivably make the "celebrity" person do things, such as have a love affair with someone, that he or she wouldn't do in real life.

Thirdly, I don't mind, care, think it's creepy or really give a darn if someone has a doll made to look like another person without telling them. If the doll is of a celebrity, then it's taken for granted that the celeb is going to have fans who will likely draw pics, make dolls, do all kinds of things that fans do. If the doll is just of an ordinary person, I don't think the mere fact of having a doll made of someone without telling them is creepy. It could be that you just admired someone's face so much or thought they looked just like a character in a story you were making up, that you made them into a doll. Now, if you have that doll made AND you carry it around everywhere and tell people who it's of and how you have this giant untold crush on said person, or you do other creepy things like follow the person around all the time, or if you have some bizarre idea like the doll has part of the person's spirit in it because it looks like said person, so that if you do voodoo on the doll or have sex with the doll or whatever it's like doing something t the person, then I think YOUR BEHAVIOR is creepy...not the doll.

 

Hmm, if it were me...well, assuming that the doll is only a BASIS for the mold but it will be customized to look like someone else, I guess it's not a bad thing.

If it was meant to be ME in a doll form, I'd probably find it flattering, unless it was used for...things I'd never want to imagine.

It's a case-to-case basis for me.