Not liking a faceup you just paid for

It has happened to me a couple of times that I can remember.
One was just one part of the faceup that I didn't like that didn't show up in the photos (I thought it was just a shadow from the lighting but it was actually blushed on). Since I didn't notice it till it arrived, I just carefully (and to the best of my abilities) removed as much as I could till I was okay and could live with it.
The other was an artist's choice style faceup and I remember just giving a few key words on what direction I was hoping for and when I saw the finished progress photo, omg it was in the complete opposite direction. I didn't say anything and just wiped the head as soon as it got back to me. I honestly thought it was going to turn out different because I didn't have a true vision for what I wanted, just a general idea, but when it went way in a different way I was just so upset. The work was beautiful in itself, so I didn't have the heart to say anything to the artist.

 

This thread has reaffirmed my commitment to continue practicing my own face-ups, because I know I would be *that* kind of customer: "It's beautiful! It's gorgeous! It's exactly what I asked for!"
...
"I don't like it."

I have paid for company face-ups after falling head over heels in love with the pictures, received the doll, got exactly what I paid for - and I didn't like it. Wiped it. Total waste of money. And that's a company, who's almost certainly never going to know (or care). I can't imagine doing that to a small creator/artist.

 

The replies are partially why I'm scared to find someone to commission for my blank heads because no matter how much detail I give, the face will never look like how it is in my head

 

This is something I'm terrified of! I've experienced that quite a bit as I was once involved in the ARPG/CS communities in deviantArt. Even after I was able to pin down what I love in a design, I wasn't able to...recreate the magic, I guess?? When getting things custom done. I'd always have to see a design, and fall in love with it, then get it.

I don't know how this issue will translate to BJD, if at all. I may be doomed to only fall in love with faceups I find on the secondhand market, which doesn't bode well for the two dolls I have on the way....

 

Me when I ordered my first BJD - it's too big! I'll grit my teeth and bear it, though, because I can't find anything like it in 1/4 scale.
Me now - ugh. These 1/4 scale dolls are too small. I should just sell them all off.

Yeah...

 

Hehehe this is my other fear!! I'm holding up the pants for my 73cm boy and thinking "am I really ready for this??? It's like I'm waiting for a literal child to come home...." but at the same time I can't imagine getting as much joy out of the tinies, though I'm on the fence about 1/4s lol.

 

I appreciate the advice everyone gave. For privacy I'm deleting the original post

 

never gotten a faceup commissioned before, tho i've had a few company face ups I ended up not liking. From that experience, I was never able to enjoy the doll.

So can't say if forcing it would be the best for a long term working relationship with them, but it's probably not the greatest starting point. Since you plan on working with them once their commission are open again, this probably wouldn't be a bad time to get to know how they handle this sort of thing as well? It sounds like you are open to being upfront about it, like how you mentioned that the faceup is lovely, just that there mighta been some miscommunications. Who knows, they might even be down to tweak it a bit if they still have the head?

 

This wasn't a face-up but a felted armature commission that I paid big $$ for, but I remember being extremely hesitant to ask for changes and the artist eventually just got annoyed with me beating around the bush and was like "I'm a professional, you're a client literally paying my bills, you're allowed to ask for changes or tell me what you're unhappy with because you're paying me money to make you happy". So we worked together to discuss and figure out the changes (some things I wanted were not possible, and as the artist I commissioned was the expert in that particular area of art, I deferred to their judgement and we worked on an alternative solution). I think anything you're paying hundreds of dollars for, you deserve SOME input so long as you're ready to compromise and accept their more expert opinion when something isn't possible.

As someone who doesn't really take commissions with my own art anymore but used to in the past, I don't think I ever had a moment where I minded client input on something, but then again I'm a digital artist and for me making changes was often not a huge deal. But for some reason I assume other artists would get offended when asked for changes, just because... I dunno. I don't really think it's true, I think it's just something in my head.

That being said, I think most face-up artists have policies surrounding things like progress photos or requesting changes, so I look very carefully for this information before ordering. Some artists (typically ones in high demand) have a very strict "you're paying me for my vision, not to be your pair of artistic hands" policy. I've dealt with them in the past and it was a very take it or leave it kind of interaction. Beautiful work but... it's whatever they thought was right for the doll, so lets hope it works for you. And by commissioning them, you kind of agree to that. Other artists who have a different mindset will do progress photos (and sometimes may charge extra for the trouble, since they have to interrupt their work to wait for your approval instead of getting through it in one afternoon). If it's not spelled out, I highly recommend asking it ahead of time, before you take your slot.

Right now, in your situation, I would probably just ask them what their policy is. The worst that would happen if you're polite is they'll say that it's not possible to make changes, and going forward I doubt it would affect your future interactions with them. But you won't know if there's a solution unless you ask.

 

You need to keep in mind that all artists have their own style and rarely will they copy another artist’s style.
For example, I’ve commissioned both Pepstar and AngelToast for various dolls, and each artist has a face up style that is unique to THEM. I would never ask AngelToast to paint a doll in a way that copies Pepstar’s style, or vice-versa. I might ask her to paint a doll in a manner that is similar—as in, using a similar paint palate—while still keeping true to her own method. But it will never look just like Pepstar’s face up’s.

Perhaps that’s the issue you’re having? You have a favorite artist whose style you love, so you commissioned another artist to attempt to match what you imagine it should look like in your head in your preferred artist’s style. But if this artist has a style that is noticeably different from the other’s, the faceups won’t ever match what you think they should because the style will not match what you’re expecting. It’s not your fault nor the artist’s. Does that make sense?

 

I had a faceup done on one of my dolls by an artist I'd worked with before. I'd had no problems with any of the others. This particular one I'd gotten a photo of the almost finished faceup to approve but part of it was really not what I was looking for. However when I asked to alter the issue, I was told it was already sealed and glossed. I didn't want to cause problems so I just went with it and hoped it would be better in person. After all this time it still bugs me to the point of I'm now no longer as invested in the doll. The faceup isn't right for a character that has been in my life since I was a teenager, so much so that I'm seriously considering re-shelling them.

My advice is say something now if they still have the head. As long as you're polite and explain the situation fully to them then I'm sure they'll understand. If they can't make changes then that's that but if they can, you will feel better and you'll both have a better understanding of working together.

 

I agree I think the best thing is to speak up- any artist worth their salt knows art is subjective, and their impression can vastly differ from yours. As a client you do have a right to ask for progress pics, talk it through at each stage etc, but then also the artist can only do so much with what you give them- in that situation I think I’d try and give as much visual representation as possible to make it clear

 

Honestly it really depends on what this particular artist's policy is. They usually have a section where they lay out all their terms— whether they do progress photos, whether they allow redos, etc. Some charge a fee to change the faceup at that stage. I'd read through their commission info again and see if that gives you an idea of what to say.

Sometimes it really comes down to the artist not being able to see inside your head and do it exactly how you're picturing. Or, they might not be the right artist for you. Either way it's up to you and your comfort level with speaking up versus just wiping the head and trying someone else.

 

Oh wow. Lots of replies. I'll try to clear up the major questions here Thank you to everyone for your advice though. This is overwelming.


@VentisetteStars I think the biggest issue with tweaks is, this is from a hyper realistic faceup artist. They're often done in a multiple of layers so undoing a section isn't as simple as wiping that section and redoing it, unfortunately. But I appreciate your thoughts very much! I'm sorry you've had factory faceups you didn't like before But I hope you were able to get them to how you want them now

@Lelite Your verbiage here hit the nail on the head. I was a former plush artist professionally and it's nearly impossible to redo something that's already done and so customers asking for changes was honestly EXTREMELY difficult to do. I have definitely carried that form of understanding into how I approach getting faceups done by other artists. I don't want to put a burden on them, especially when they've done all this work already and it's done and I'm just not happy with the end result. And given the nature of how this process works, the only way this artist could get to the result I'd want would likely be to wipe the entire thing and do it again. They're just so in demand that even if they were willing, it could put a bad taste in their mouth for wanting to work with me again and that's my biggest fear. The artist in question has no information at all related to requesting changes. I've read every word on their website prior to purchasing their services and I've even re-visited it to make sure I'm not missing anything. Unfortunately they have nothing referring to this beyond offering 50% completion photos when you submit your order form to them. I'm pretty sure asking a thinly veiled "what's your policy on this" will probably open up the can of worms I'm not prepared for yet. But it's the halfway point at least. I may just try that, thank you.


@Stormlight Both the former and current artist are hyper realistic faceup artists. While they do have somewhat their own style and interpretation of what that means in finer detail work (like lips and eyes), they're quite similar in effect. The differences don't come down to those factors. And I never reference another artist's work when providing reference photos of what I want since I believe that's rude. In the most recent commission batch someone got a doll that was far more in tune with my expectations. So the artist can get that result, we just didn't come to that understanding with how I described my request. But I honestly don't know how I could have tweaked my verbiage to make that point more clear beyond "in the similar vein to how you painted X doll" but the doll hadn't been painted yet so I had no way of alluding to that. I mean, I having it as a reference example within their own portfolio for any future dolls with this style is there at least, kind of?

@Taydr I really appreciate your perspective on this. a huge fear is just accepting it without liking it and just leaving the situation there with the hope I'll grow to like it and just..not liking it still. I don't want to be a difficult client, but you're right that if I don't like it now, the liklihood I'll like it more down the road is just not terribly likely. I don't want to resent a doll I love just because of a misunderstanding.

@LeSeraffime Thank you for your perspective on this and advice

@chataignon Unfortunately they literally don't even vaguely allude to this anywhere on their website. They're well established and have a great FAQ but surprisingly have no information at all about how to handle situations when a customer is unhappy or what process will be followed in situations like this. But maybe a situation like this has genuinely never come up for this artist and this will be the reason to make a policy on this? I think this is a good perspective.

@Cap'n I appreciate your perspective. I definitely have no intention of making this public or creating a scene. It's not that the artist didn't listen, just that we weren't at an understanding. And ultimately if they don't want to redo it or want to charge for redoing it; that's their policy to have and doesn't warrant a public shaming. I intend to keep this as between the artist and I as I can beyond this vague post to gather advice.
I appreciate your advice of noting the specific areas of miscommunication so if I am pursuing this, I can explain in clear, concise detail where the misunderstanding occurred to get us on the same page. I especially like your idea of using the actual photos of the faceup to make the point. I do appreciate your perspective as well that the artist may have been bypassing my requests in some ways to do what they think looks best. I don't doubt this. The vein of this particular makeup style is...odd compared to conventional makeup? And I did try to explain this to the artist to make the point in no uncertain terms that I was deliberately requesting it like this with intent. But there's a good chance the artist, especially with me being a new client for them, didn't understand exactly what I meant or thought I didn't mean it like that and hence went with their best judgement. That's a very reasonable perspective.
I do believe this artist is capable of this vision. They have an incredibly varied portfolio and I think could execute this very well. It's just that there wasn't a clear enough understanding in the beginning that got to this point. If I can get past this mental roadblock of "challenging the artist's better sense" and if the artist was even willing to hear me out on this, I think they could do this very well. But getting to that point without risking offending the artist is the hard part. The work they did is really beautiful and if this wasn't a limited doll from a company that doesn't offer head only sales I wouldn't mind re-selling the head, getting a new blank one, and trying again. But alas that's not an option. So it's either request the artist wipe a beautiful faceup they did to achieve the vision I actually wanted or just "live with it" as is and not have the vision for this doll fully realized. I realize, if I do pursue this, I very clearly do need to be extremely detailed in my explanations to this artist in the future.

 

@akaisha0 Ah, I see. In that case, I do think you should message them with your concerns all laid out and ask them how they want to proceed. I know it can be hard... I'm the sort of person that never wants to cause an issue, but sometimes it's best to speak up. If they react badly, it's probably better that you know that before sending future dolls to them as well. Hopefully you guys can work something out so you can both be happy though.

 

One thing to keep in mind is if there is a language gap. I had a situation where the face up did not match because I thought I had asked for a natural peachy blush (as in cheek make-up) on my white resin doll head. The artist interpreted that as me wanting to blush the whole head a natural peach skin tone - so it no longer matched the body in the end.

 

As an artist, I take commissions of various kinds (painting and embroidery). I don't think I've ever had someone ask me to repeat a design over from the beginning, but I have made changes before (where possible) and as a paid artist, my first priority (aside from the integrity of my work) is that the customer is happy. If you don't take care of your customers, your business often dies, so I would think any reasonable artist would try to understand your desires before getting upset.

One thing I don't think was mentioned above, but if you do ask for a re-do you should be prepared to pay a fee, whether that is the whole fee again or a partial fee. Even if you have paid once, if the artist has to do the work over again, they need to be paid for their time and materials. It might help if you said you were willing to pay a fee when you ask if they re-do their work.

Good luck!

 

I can tell you put a lot of thought into this, and how you approached the matter at hand. As a person who commissioned a lot of art and is very detailed, yet concise about how I phrase my request and always makes sure to basically commission artists for the thing they are known for already...shit can sometimes still happen. Either because they misunderstood or just interpreted something in a different way than one expected.
That's not necessarily anyone's fault. You can only convey so much with words and images sometimes, and our mental image is not yet transferable

I'd say the only thing you're at fault for is not requesting those 50% photos. You should always do that, for obvious reasons.
I also have to say though, I don't get any artists that do not provide WIP shots. I know that especially big artists tend to not offer these anymore, but to me it's crazy. They're a safety net for you, especially when you do work that cannot be simply tweaked or changed. When I'm already wrong in the beginning (like eyebrow shape/angle is a big thing people have strong opinions on with their dolls), I'd rather the customer tells me right away vs I finish the whole thing and find out I was on the wrong path already at 10% of the work. Waste of time and material. Granted that also means the customer needs to speak up when I provide them with a photo and not just bite their lip.
You say you had the feeling artists dislike the WIP shots...I would not say dislike, it's more a case of lack of time AND wrong expectations. If doing faceups is your main job and you have to churn them out like crazy, taking pics for inbetween steps can be time consuming. Not only that, it also slows you down working on heads. You can only go on once the customer replies, which when you're on a tight schedule can be an immense waste of time. However, the issue is also that the inbetween steps just look...bad. Like the first layers of blushing either don't say anything, or it looks weird. Same for the lines. Customers sometimes don't understand that though and then tell you it looks unfinished (you don't say) or they get anxious because it looks off. I'd still always provide them though, at least before sealing critical parts. But I'm also in the position I never had this at my main job and wasn't forced to paint dozens of heads at once
I have the luxury of taking my time, and giving each person I still decide to paint for my complete attention.

Anyway, to go back to your question.
It's a really difficult choice, and I get your issue. You're very fixated and limited on the choices you have (which is currently no real choice at all), and you don't want to lose the artist you have at hand right now. But at the same time, you paid a lot of money for something you don't like. What would you do with the doll now anyway? Keep the face? Sell it?
If you speak up, the artist at least has a chance to still make you happy. However, I doubt you'll get that for free A lot of artists do not do free redos, especially when the chance for WIP shots has been willingly forfeited by the customer and it wasn't an obvious mistake (like you said black eyebrows and they did blonde ones).

So your choice is now:
- don't say anything, lose money, don't have a doll you like, but be safe for the future
or
- speak up, which can end in numerous ways
Either you anger the artist (worst case), they redo but you have to pay again (eh case), or they redo for free (best case). Each option might still mean being blacklisted in future.
I'd weigh what matters the most to me I guess and go from there.

Also, last comment about how I would feel as an artist in that situation: I'd be annoyed, because of the forfeited WIP shots AND if it's not an obvious mistake on my part But where I'd go from there would completely depend on how you approach it. In the end you want to make the customer happy and know they enjoy your work. If you tell me you love it but feel like there was some miscommunication, and pull a little at my heart strings, I'd sigh and redo it. Just make a mental note that if you stay my customer, you're one that I feed with regular images. Some customers do not care much about what they get as long as it's pretty, others have a more defined mental image. The latter get more photos
So it's less about the issue, but about how you present it.

I wish you good luck with whatever choice you make!

 

You know, I have to wonder if those with very specific images in their mind would benefit from first having a digital mock-up done on the head. My suggestion to future work though would not be shy about referencing specific elements of other faceups you like. As long as you aren't requesting a mirror copy of one work, there is no harm in pointing out several pieces that have different elements in the style that you like.