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Paypal fees discussion

Jul 23, 2007

    1. I would like to bring this up. As anyone who has used the marketplace knows...some people charge for the paypal fees, which is illegal. So what makes this acceptable?

      In my opinion, if you are concerned about the paypal fees, simply ask more for the doll/head/clothes to begin with, not to mention that some of the paypal calculations seem dodgey to begin with.

      I no longer purchase from people who charge paypal fees.
    2. It's not illegial in all countries, as far as I know in the UK we are still allowed to ask for the fees to be covered by the buyer.

      Personally if I'm paying by paypal I offer to cover the fees anyway. I understand why pp charge them (they have to stay in business after all) but I don't see why the seller should bear the brunt, especially when its a very small purchase.

      It's worth noting btw, that you get charged the same paypal fees reguardless of if its a credit card or balance transfer transaction so personally when I sell I work the fees into it in the first place. If it was a large item, a doll for example I'd probably split the fees half way between myself and the buyer just to be fair.

      What does annoy me about paypal fees is that they charge so much for very small transactions... for example I recieved a payment for roughtly £1.30 to cover postage on something, I was charged 20p and then the 3.whatever% fees. It would be nice to see them only charge fees on transactions over a certain amount but then again I can see how that could be abused (i.e. sending multiple small amounts)
    3. As someone who sells quite a lot on Ebay, I wouldn't dream of charging my buyers the Paypal fee. And to be honest I do think twice before buying from anyone who asks the buyer to cover the fees. As I look at it, the fees are the cost of advertizing my goods on Ebay.
      As for the sellers on DoA ect who charge the buyers, I think that has to be up to them to decide on moral grounds. Personally I would just make sure that the price I was charging included the fee. That way the buyer should be happy, and its not costing the seller anything. Admitidly I've not sold anything quite as expensive as a BJD yet! Though I have had transactions of well over $200.
      And as for the fees themselves, at the end of the day Paypal is a financal service, not a charity, and they are in it to make a profit.
    4. I agree with this.

      Honestly, if its illegal in your country, Imo I feel people should not do it. However, the sad thing is, that outside of ebay? It cannot be enforced at all - this is why it will stay prevalent. I think if people just bit the bullet and shoved the fee into shipping/handling though, we'd see a lot less complaints about it. Not exactly the most ethical solution, granted, but it is, in essence a handling fee - the cash is just going to someone else's pocket.

      I am also confused as to why people charge 4%? I thought it was a ~2% fee - where's the rest of that percentage come from?
    5. The only time I ask for paypal fees to be covered is if I am running a group order. I don't really think its fair for me to lose money to help people save on shipping :sweat
    6. To me, it is only acceptable on a split or group order where obviously everyone must split the fee. But for individual sales it is definitely against Paypal's rules. I think if an individual is selling something and they accept Paypal as payment, they should just raise the price they are asking by 5 percent or so, and not add a subcharge for Paypal fees. We enjoy the advantages of Paypal here, and I don't think members should be able to blantantly violate the Paypal user agreement in the Marketplace.

    7. it varies between 2% and 4%

    8. Last time I looked depends what type of account they have. If a casual seller has a personal Paypal account and you pay them with Paypal cash transfer, I believe they are charged NO fee (but I don't think those accounts can take CC payments through Paypal). And I think the fees runs as high as 4.3 percent for some types of Business acoounts. In addition, people in other countries are hit with additional penalties in the form of bad currency conversion rates on Paypal.

      I think that is why it should be up to individual sellers to raise their asking price slightly to cover whatever their own fees are and charge the same price regardless of how their buyers pay. if the buyer pays by check there are still costs involved because the seller must spend time and gas running that check to the bank or ATM, waiting for it to clear, etc.

    9. UK fees according to ppcalc:
      PayPal Standard Rate (3.4% + £0.20)
      PayPal Merchant Rate I (2.9% + £0.20)
      PayPal Merchant Rate II (2.4% + £0.20)
      PayPal Merchant Rate III (1.9% + £0.20)
      PayPal Merchant Rate IV (1.4% + £0.20)
    10. I didnt even know the paypal fees existed until I came to DoA. I didnt even know that they were illegal! I just saw people on the board say it all the time on their selling thread so I thought it was the norm, but now that I know, I'll not include it if I ever plan to sell.

      I personally dont like them. As a consumer, I just find them bothersome and more work to do the math on my part. XD
    11. That's correct. Those of us who have "Verified Premier Accounts" (ooo! doesn't that sound impressive! :lol: ) in order to be able to take credit-card payments are charged up to 4% regardless of whether the buyer sends cash or credit. Personal accounts are not charged to receive funds, I believe. This is why you'll occasionally find a seller who wants to know up front which type of payment you're sending, because they want to lose the least (understandable!)

      I'm of two minds about this issue. Wearing a seller's hat, I really hated losing $20 or so USD on a large sale I made recently. But from a buyer's-advocate standpoint, the Paypal agreement quite clearly says that the seller is not permitted to charge extra to cover their fees. It's a matter of personal integrity (knowing you are following the rules) versus the quite natural desire to recoup as much as possible from a sale. Very very difficult to decide which side wins. It's particularly irksome to sell on ebay, knowing that the same parent company is skimming part of your earnings on one side and part on another.

      So yes. Given some really serious thought, I have no good answer to this dilemma other than to one small issue - if it is something I want badly enough I will not hesitate to pay the seller's fees, legal or not. :| I guess that makes me a complete waffle.
    12. I am an Ebay seller, and I have never charged my buyers for the fees, nor will I ever. It just seems wrong to me.

    13. I've sold quite a bit independently (non-ebay) and I never pass fees onto the customer. That would be a little like going into a grocery store or restaurant and having them pass on credit card processing fees to the customer as a separate fee, as opposed to building it into the markup.

      I don't begrudge anyone charging it if they want, but as a customer, I can choose not to shop with them.
    14. I was most surprised when my partner said "Hey, I don't think we're getting the right fee, based on volume it should be XXX..." So I went and looked at it and sure enough! Our fees were more like the standard rate of 3.4% than the rate we should have had. So, I called up Paypal and said "What's up?" Well, it turns out INTERNATIONAL payments are charged at a higher rate. I didn't see /anywhere/ that they stated this on the PP site, but... *shrug*

      Just something to keep in mind, accepting international payments costs a higher rate than payments from your own country.

      On the actual topic of the question, bank fees, whether accepting credit cards or Paypal or what have you, should be taken into the price of the item sold. If you don't want to add it in to the doll's price, consider that a 'handling fee' is considered perfectly acceptable so long as it applies equally to all payment methods. So, if you must cover those fees and don't want to make the doll look more expensive (personally I'd just bump the doll up a bit if I were that worried about it, usually I just soak it. :sweat) then make it clear that shipping and handling will be actual shipping + (whatever percent you think you will be charged) as a handling fee.

      Interestingly, this legally came about as a result of the fact that credit cards insist that you not charge extra to use the card. For some reason, debit cards don't have the same restriction (ever been to an Arco?) So, vendors have to work that extra charge into their costs, they can't charge it separately.

    15. The ones that crack me up are the "auctions" where the doll is sold to the highest bidder PLUS the paypal fees! *shakes head*
    16. I personally would rather the sellers just price their doll high enough to cover the fees, if any, so we don't have to monkey around with fee calculations. But I generally don't mind being charged a reasonable fee if the seller makes it clear up front that CC comes with a fee attached. If the fee bothers me, I make sure that I'll be able to pay that seller in cash, or I simply don't buy that doll. To me, eBay is a different story because it has many rules that do not apply to private DoA marketplace transactions.
    17. :lol:

      Ya, I'm going to bid a seller's doll from a starting price of $800 USD up to $1,600 USD and they can't front me Paypal fees after that much profit? I never charge Paypal fees and if an item sells for over a certain amount I'll even throw in free shipping. How much profit does a person need to make on a doll auction? :roll: Decide your profit margin, don't get greedy.

      If a person feels they must be reimbursed for their Paypal fees, why don't they just add it into their retail so it at least appears legal? For example, let's say somebody is selling a pair of Dollheart shoes. They want $25 worth of profit but they know there will be Paypal fees. Why don't they just ask for $28-$30 plus shipping? Nobody can argue Paypal fees if it's not mentioned after all.
    18. I never charge for PayPal fees either. The convenience of getting immediate payment far outweighs the fee.
    19. I have two paypal accounts, one for CC and the other for non. For smaller items I prefer Non CC, but for dolls and such, I know most don't have that amount in balance or on hand, unless they just sold a doll etc. i do state it in my listings, and when I am PM'd about something i am upfront about it.
      and it is a convenience to the buyer that I have the items in hand, the shipping is cheaper and the wait time alot less. but from now on, I may only accept non cc, or jus tack it on to the price. (shrug)
    20. Ditto!!

      As others have said, I had only charged them when I was running a group order, and in such case I don't think anyone can afford losing money due to the paypal fees.

      But when I'm selling my items, be it a doll or a wig, I just eat the fees. And I do think twice about buying from someone who mentions you need to add 4 or 5% to your total.

      Unless it's something I REALLY REALLY want, I may consider it, but most of the time I just see that and hit the back button.

      I have to say sometimes I do add a bit more to cover them out of courtesy, but not because the seller has asked me to!