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Pediophobia

Sep 13, 2005

    1. Nope. We may both be goths, though :)

      I just spent the last couple of hours gawping at those modern mummies, & then reading about the ones in Mexico, & various others around the world. Totally facsinating.

      I also read that it is very likely that the reason that attitudes to death changed (from the Victorian attiitude that long periods of mourning were necessary, & lockets containing the hair of dead people were a sign of love, not creepy, to the more recent attitude that death is rather brushed under the carpet) because of the number of people killed in Europe during the First World war & the major flu eppidemic just after it.

      So before that time, we have practices that seem very morbid to many modern readers, whereas after that time, those of us who are morbid by nature can't understand why people don't even educate themselves about death, for instance.

      I've always been a rather perky person, but also, deeply morbid in outlook.

      The mummies scare me, but fascinate me in equal quantities. I do not know if I would be utterly fascinated, or superstitiously panicked by visiting the actual catacombs.

      However, I think it may be that aspect of my personality that draws me to the most realistic dolls... who can say?

      Lucy
       
    2. Ok, confession time, I used to find them fascinating too, those portraits, which is why I used to buy them. I also felt ashamed that they were sold as trinkets and I would buy them because I felt sorry for them. The person in the painting was someone's loved one and now it was being sold for a couple of bucks. So I'd bring them home, the same thing with broken dolls, I've always felt terrible about discarded dolls, it's like throwing away our dreams or something, I hope I'm making sense here! :o

      The crypts I'm used to, all of Europe is full of those. (I grew up in continental Europe) Between catacombs and ossuaries well...although it's not a place you go to socilaize they are part of life. I mean, if you dig deep enough in someone's back yard, you are bound to find bones of some kind and weapons or even Roman ruins...

      BUT after I had my kid, I could no longer buy those portraits and I put away the ones a owned! :o

      ~On a happy note having a child has not affected my doll collecting in the least. I actually have more dolls now than I did pre-mommyhood! Although now I focus on ABJDs, I've lost all interest in other dolls.

      ~My house belongs to my BJDs, if I could just get them to vaccuum that would be something to rant about! :grin:

      ~AS far as children not having logic I disagree with that, they do have logic and a very pure and unadulterated on at that. My child is very smart and has perfect use of appropriate-for-her-age reason. What children lack is the ridiculous hang-ups, need to overcompensate for their short comings that adults have.

      ~This is definitely OT but as a parent, I resent this comment and would really respectuflly appreciate if comments like that about children, weren't posted again. Needless to say this commment really upset me! Sorry but it's true!
       
    3. heh.. I'm studying to be a forensic anthropologist.. and I've been interested in mummies since I was really really little. to me, it doesn't matter if the person is dead. for me, it matters more that the person can still tell a story, and if I find out the story and am able to tell it to others, that person isn't dead.
      kidna goes with the saying.. you aren't truely dead till you are forgotten.XD but I'm sooo off topic now...
       
    4. My family has been chinese buddhist since I was very young, so we worship statues and figures on a regular basis. Even with this, I was very suprise to discover my family thought my first doll was slightly creepy or even ugly as my mother said, and tend to laugh and shake their heads whenever I take him around the house with me (they think I'm very sad >.<).
      I think my familly has the oppsite problem to most people - when I made my own cloth doll before I got my BJD, my mum loved it because I painted the face very real and pretty. But my BJD's are not pretty or realistic in a classic way, much more like anime or super-real beauty.
      But then again I'm used to the idea of figures or statue's being seen as being inhabited by a spirit, so its not difficult for me to see Lucien and Jin as having their own souls :3. I'm also one of those weird people who doesn't mind mummies or dead bodies (I've even seen real dead monks preserved with chemicals in temples), probubly because I used to go to the British Museum a lot, and I watch a lot of archeology shows. I just don't like the thought of ghosts :cry:
       
    5. ~Welcome to the Anthopology club! Although I did not go into the forensic side of it, I find mummies fascinating. I am more focused on social anthropology and specifically the correlation between dolls and human evolution. Dolls evolve along side humanity especially BJDs. The more complex we get, the more complex and people-like BJDs get. It's like we have an intrinsic need to copy ourselves. Maybe it's part of our instinct of survival.
       
    6. On the subject of pedophilia: I believe it is not just the ownership of dolls by males that is considered unnaceptable by some: I think it is the fact that they believe someone (male) who surrounds themselves with what THEY consider 'things of childhood' must be doing so to entrap children... to get them to trust him, or give an excuse for him to invite them in.

      On the subject of pictures of the dead: I think you are thinking of daguerrotypes, an early form of slow-exposure photography. Take a look at this site, & the sepia-toned pictures. THIS LINK HAS NO IMAGES OF DEAD PEOPLE: I don't want to scare anyone any more than this thread is already scaring them! I just sat through 128 images to check!

      http://lb-web.com/daguerreotypes/images/dags/index.htm

      Have you seen the film 'The Others'? That had some of those creepy pictures in it...

      Lucy
       
    7. [quote="neverland
      ~Welcome to the Anthopology club! Although I did not go into the forensic side of it, I find mummies fascinating. I am more focused on social anthropology and specifically the correlation between dolls and human evolution. Dolls evolve along side humanity especially BJDs. The more complex we get, the more complex and people-like BJDs get. It's like we have an intrinsic need to copy ourselves. Maybe it's part of our instinct of survival.[/quote]

      my mom said something simular to that... I wish I could remember exactly what she said, but it seems that every culture has dolls, though they tend to be proto-children, or replacement children
       
    8. I wasn't reffering to daguerreotypes although those are also really interesting (cool site). I am talking about actual oil paintings of the deceased before we had photography. Very creepy but fascinating at the same time.

      I did see "The Others" very cool movie. I loved the feel of the movie and the clothes she wore, I was thinking of commissioning an outfit similar to hers for one of my goils.
      I also tried to style a wig like her hair but... :| needless to say we are not going to use such wig :cry:
       
    9. The idea of dolls being a part of our humanity is an interesting one x3. Although I think it had more to do with represnting human ideals, rather than copying the human form. Such as Africa and Native American fertility figures or worrior statues. It also seems people use dolls or human-like forms to come closer to the world of the spirits, a way to make them 'solid' and tangable. Lol, sorry if that was a bit OT
       
    10. Ah, my apologies, I thought there might have been some confusion. I'm very interested in early photographs & photographic postcards, & have certainly seen some using dead animals posed cutely, or images taken of dead people, sometimes in an upright coffin, but I have never seen paintings of them.

      I'm only an amateur anthropologist, but it was the subject I most wanted to study. That or forensix science!

      The Others had me hiding inside my top rather a lot. I have a love/hate relationship with suspense! Reminded me of The Turn of The Screw & it's many adaptations, all close to my heart.

      I'm sorry you've been upset by the attitudes some posters have towards children: I think many people fear the emotional responsibility involved in being a friend or guardian to a young child. For some, that changes with age, or with experiences. I know I've flunctuated between wanting & not wanting children over the years, & am also an only child with no cousins my age, & few close friends with children, but, having known a few, & found them to be remarkable young people, I'd certainly not write off ALL children, as some people seem to do. I can't see anyone declaring that they hate women, or people of one nationality, or any other group as cheerily as many people declare their hatred of children :(

      Lucy
       
    11. Anything excessively girly creeps me out. So when I received a porcelain doll with cute blond curls and a frilly little frock for Christmas one year, I stuffed her in a closet so I would never have to look at her again. I also find realism in dolls extremely mundane; why would I want a doll that looked exactly like a baby? I just can't give a personality to something so life like. I've always prefered the artistic aspect of dolls, and BJDs appeal to me because they are beautiful little pieces of art, not entirely life like but more comparable to japanese anime style artwork.

      As for relating dolls to dead children, I just don't see the connection. Though, when a friend just looked at the picture of Rosalia Lombardo, he said she looked like a doll without knowing where I got the link>_< I find post mortem portraits intriguing too...has anyone seen The Others? Ok, off topic now :oops:

      This topic just gave me a good idea for a photoshoot with my dreaming El...hmmm
       
    12. This thread is starting to get way off topic...

      Personally I find mummies highly creepy. I simply don't understand why people try to perserve dead bodies. I mean, they're dead! When anything else dies it goes back into the earth and helps the grass grow or feeds other animals... Circle of Life crap.

      Mummies, while interesting, are so unnatural (I'm talking about the ones that are made, not the ones that happen thanks to nature). When I saw that picture of Rosalia Lombardo I felt creeped out because someone wanted to make sure their daughter's body stayed the same for eternity. Just let her die for peat's sake!
       
    13. To sort of get back on topic, though I definitely find the mummies and post mortem portraits interesting, most of my friends who have expressed a fear or uncomfortable feeling when around my dolls acted like they were "just waiting for them to move."
      I think it's the inability to get past how lifelike they are for some people. I admit I've had this same fear around certain figurines and statues...
      So I can understand why some people would be uncomfortable sleeping in the same room with a BJD. The fear that it would "come to life" and harm them during the night (though why they always seem to have malignant intentions, I don't know XD) is overwhelming.

      ~Megan
       
    14. I've seen those photos; eerie and morbidly mesmerizing. The paintings are equally strange, almost allien, we definitely have an obsession with death, look at the strange things we do because of it. Like the locket with a lock of hair in it. My grandmother, bless her sense of humor :| , gave me one of such lockets but neglected to tell me that the hair came from her great-great something or other. Needless to say I do not wear the thing.

      Back OT: Maybe we make dolls, specifically BJDs, with their high mobility as an act of defiance against death. We make an inanimate object "move" and therefore we give it "life", because I definitely see me BJDs as "living" beings. They have names and personalities. I pose them and buy them clothes and take my dolls with me on trips, (outside of research related trips that is!)

      This is what my car looks like when I go on a trip; me, completely disshevelled. My daughter with sunglasses and a baseball cap on (I think she is trying to keep people from recognizing her as my kid). My dog slobbering all over my seats, the cat freaking out somewhere in the car, AND my BJDs carefully arranged in the passenger seat next to me.

      ~My neighbours give me the strangest looks! :| *_* :?
       
    15. Replying to the on topic bit (although I'm smiling at the image of your car-contents!) ...

      The ventriloquist's dummy is VERY often seen as scary, whereas Kermit the Frog is not. Is it because, although in both cases, we are aware that they are dolls, operated by a pupeteer, the suspension of disbelief we engage when watching the Muppets is not brought into play with the more life-like (but with uncanny non-human traits) ventriloquist's dummy, whose operator we can clearly see?

      Lucy
       
    16. urg, it's the eyes of those dummies that always creep me out. which is weird because I like the eyes of a bjd. maybe it's the way the faces are so exagerated in the dummies that is what is scary about them
       
    17. ARGHHH... I love marrionettes, the ones representing the Venetian Comedy are especially alluring to me. I want a Colombina outfit for my Lacrima. And I was going to customize one of my boys as Scarammucchia but haven't gotten around to it...

      ~As far as hand held puppets, I just can't get over the fact that someone has their hand up the poor doll's ...

      ~I'm sorry, Lucy, you make an excellent point, you really do, but that hand thing is just too overwhelming for me... :lol: I'll stop now, I'm being an ass myself...
       
    18. OK, I'm REALLY laughing a lot now!

      I was trying to get across the fact that we know Kermit started out as a sock, but we aren't imagining him taking over the actions of his operator, or wandering off to stab rival performers...

      Lucy
       
    19. BTW Lucy, I really wanted to tell you that your being unsure if you want to have kids or not, is perfectly reasonable and understandable. I did the same thing for years!
      Having a child is the hardest thing I have ever done. I will be this person's parent for the rest of my life, that kind of responsibility is overwhelming! It is hard enough to take care of myself, being responsible for another human being is terrfying but at the same time I wouldn't change having my child for anything in the world.

      ~How what I just said relates to BJDs I will never know but... I'll salvage my argument by stating that I am shamelessly indoctrinating my very impressionable daughter about the satisfaction of ABJDs collecting!

      ~Pandora you certainly opened that infamous box with this thread! LOL :lol: :lol: :lol:
       
    20. I wonder if the reaction has something to do with the lingering idea of personification most humans experience as children with their toys. I played with all sorts of dolls growing up, and would pretend they had lives, ideas, conversations, thoughts and feelings. I see my cousin's daughter acting out her fear and frustration of her parents divorce through her doll play. You see experts using dolls in therapy sessions to get children to open up because it's easy for children to relate to or through a doll. Adult reactions could be due to their experiences with dolls, or life experience as children. Especially since a child's make-believe is very real to them. I also think the "realism" (as in glass eyes, articulation and movement) plays a big role in ones feelings. As they say, the eyes are the windows to the soul.

      On the subject of the eyes, some people are unnerved by any kind of false eye. I been in the position before where I've had to request a patient remove his/her false eye. Several of my friends and coworkers can't stand to see the eye "out" (the eye itself, not the empty socket) or even hear about it. When my brother was young, one of his friends had a taxidermied eagle. My brother and his friend were afraid to go into the room with the eagle cause it was "watching" them.

      I used to be creeped out by antique dolls with glass eyes and teeth because they weren't the kind of "doll" I'd ever played with. They were too "real" looking, and I could also imagine seeing that mouth open up, and the teeth biting me! Of course it would happen while I was sleeping. :wink: I will admit, I don't understand the reborn craze. I wouldn't say I'm scared of them though.

      I also want to share, regarding my doll, some people are freaked out when they see that I can change the glance direction on Luci. hehe