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Photo edits - more fake in a fake world?

Jan 5, 2008

    1. There's a significant difference between editing a photo of a doll as part of a sale, and editing a photo as part of a photoshoot - one is meant to be a true representation of a doll, the other is a study in a concept.

      As a personal example, I generally adjust the light levels of my images because the light coming into my apartment isn't so hot, and that combined with my camera's general tendency to take dark photos makes for a very dim end product.

      I also like to monkey with the color saturation on my white skin doll's photos, though, because color studies are interesting to me. You can see the difference between an unretouched photo here, and one in which the color has been touched up here.

      For a Christmas shot, I wanted a colder feel to the colors, and ran the photo through a blue tint filter, which made things very pale and stark, even though the doll normally has a very warm tone. That last photo features a longer exposure on the camera to let more light in so her face would be brighter even while backlit - essentially photoshopping before the photo is even taken.

      If I were selling my dolls, however, they would have very straight forward, simply lit, unretouched photos that would feature any little imperfections - as well they should. All models are altered from the moment a photoshoot is scheduled - lighting tricks, make up, camera focus, exposure, tints and airbrushing - all of these are a part of making an image happen. There is nothing "immoral" about it.
       
    2. I think the only time editing a photo of your doll is wrong is if you're selling it, and then only if it misrepresents the product. For example, fixing the contrast or neutralizing an overall red tint to the photo is fine if it shows a more accurate representation of the doll.

      But I think it's fine to edit pictures of my own doll (not for sale) as much as I want without labeling it as such. For example, I recently posted pictures on another forum that were tweaked a little here and there and didn't say outright that they were edited. Of course I would say so if asked, and describe my edits exactly, I'm not trying to hide them; but for the sake of creating a more pleasing photograph, yes, I do edit my photos and no, I don't think it's at all dishonest (as long as I'm not selling the doll).

      If someone happens to see my edited photos of my DOD Shall and decides to buy a Shall of their own based on that, and then is later disappointed, I don't feel like that is at all my fault because I never claimed to be presenting a completely accurate portrayal of the doll mold; rather, I was presenting a piece of artwork created using my doll.
       
    3. I couldn't edit a picture if I wanted too...I have no idea how. I think people shouldn't edit all their pictures, cause some do use the gallery here to see how a doll looks in RL cause we know the companies edit. DoD seems to be the worse.
       
    4. The dolls already represent an unachievable reality (no human being is that perfect all the time), so photoshopping doesn't really bother me. I usually at least adjust lighting and sharpness of my doll photos—really, it's a good way to compensate for a cheap camera.

      If you're using it to make a doll you're selling seem better put together, then you're crossing the line into scammer territory and then you're not okay. But I don't think of the two instances as the same thing.
       
    5. The only time I would have a problem with someone "altering" their doll photos is if they erased chips/cracks/dirt/ect from a doll they were selling--that misrepresents the item they have for sale, and that's not cool.

      But enhancing colors, lighting, and whatnot in just normal dolly photoshoots? I don't see why not. When I post photos, I'll adjust the lighting if I think it's too dark. It's just improving upon the photo, I don't think there's anything morally wrong about it.
       
    6. I'm gonna agree with most of the posters here said. If I plan on buying a doll, either from a company or over evilBay/DoA/etc., I'd rather see an unaltered image that shows the doll as-is, none of that fancy computer magic.

      I'd much rather buy a doll if I knew before hand it had a scratch here and there, rather than buy a doll only to end up disappointed because what I saw on a webpage looked completely different IRL.

      (This... is really why most people don't like airbrushed models, etc. While it's really a marketing move added with aesthetics, a lot of gullible consumers believe in it. Just my two cents!)

      On the other hand, for putting things up in the gallery or making an image with the doll, more power to you if you can edit and tweak the image to bring out the mood and feel. Because really, a gloomy picture wouldn't have it's impact without some drastic lighting and a little help from filters.

      >w<
       
    7. I agree with the most of you. The gallery to me is for really the art of the photography-- if you want to have an idea of what a mold looks like, perhaps ask for an unedited version of a picture via the Picture Requests sub-forum instead.

      Sales, unedited pictures would be best, though I've known cases where a seller had to darken a picture to actually show the visible damage there was to the doll they were selling (myself being such a seller). In these cases, I see it's fine. All reasons already otherwise stated.

      And I, on the other hand, think for DoD pictures in terms of their molds-- are pretty spot on. Colors for them, and even other companies, not so much. And from what a number of us have experienced for DoD's default standard outfits that now come with the newer DoTs, besides the basic construction, they were completely different. But it wasn't due to photoshopping, rather, it's a completely different material they use all together.
       
    8. Personally I found the challenge of trying a no seams picture fun. When I did a show with my dolls I sent the person putting it together to my photobucket for pictures and they chose a shopped image of Xavier as an angel to put on the poster. I'm a big fan of fun photoshopping and wish I could do it better.

      As long as the pic of something for sale isn't shopped I'm fine. For me the grey area is "auto adjusting", I've used it on pictures that come out too dark to get the doll/outfit closer to it's actual color. It can get funky with resin comparisons like a pic I took trying to show hands from one maker matched another.
       
    9. I love enhanced photos. I wish I could photoshop my pictures; it might improve the quality. I bought a book (Photoshop for Dummies, of course) but haven't found the time to plow through it yet, but maybe I'll get to it soon. These are photos for my own amusement; as for photographs of stuff to sell, I take those on my front porch in the cold clear honest daylight.
       
    10. I raised this same question in one of the (non-bjd) doll customising forums that I belong to. I've never been flamed so much in my life! :) Cries of "How dare I suggest that anyone edits their photos etc etc..."

      I pretty much agree with the majority of answers on this. If it's for your own use or just for a pretty picture, photoshop to your hearts content. For sales, I think if you REALLY feel the need to adjust anything apart from the size of the photo, you should mention it in the sales description, and say exactly what you have done.
       
    11. As some people already mentioned, every photo in every damn newspaper are edited... simply because you have to, depending on the way you are going to print it... and for the net you also have to edit them, because of the differences in color spaces (the web-color space is much smaller than the monitors RGB-color space)... not to talk about the differences between every monitor...
      so color-editing is a must!

      Therefor... even if it's a sales-pic, there have to be a certain extend of editing... that is... if your capable of doing so... since there is much more to know about, than fun-photoshopping...
       
    12. I don't think sales photos should be edited. I think a seller should provide clear unmodified photos of a doll that is for sale, including a clear closeup of the face with no wig obscuring parts of the facup, and a nude photo of the whole doll.

      But I think a lot of the editing I see in art photos of BJD's is fine and that much is actually intended to add reality to a photo. Some photo effects and removal/blurring/cropping of joints can make some BJD photos look amazingly human.

      Carolyn
       
    13. Speaking as a professional photographer I see no faults in adjusting/correcting colours to neutral and correct representations of the items depicted in salespictures. After all it is very seldom a file taken directly from the camera has the correct colours, even with studiolighting. My camera for instance tends to produce files with far too much magenta.

      In the old days when we used film in our cameras this was done by choosing the correct film, filter and developer. Today this process is done digitally by choosing the correct whitebalance in your camera instead of choosing film and adjusting colours in photoshop instead of using the right developer. This is not considered photomanipulation however. (Unless you do it in an artistic way)

      Photomanipulation however are things like changing the colours drastically away from the original item photographed or retouching flaws like pimples on a human face or scratches on a doll. Whereas this is quite all right for artistic purposes. It would not, in my opinion, be acceptable to do for salespictures.
       
    14. To be honest, it's extremely rare these days to see a photo in a magazine, an ad, or a gallery that hasn't had at least some retouching (if it's digital, of course). The amount of retouching varies, but I recently took a course by Chris Orwig on Lynda.com that really opened my eyes to the amount of retouching in the media. =P I find it helps make things more aesthetically pleasing or interesting when images are edited, even just a bit. Adding just a little bit of contrast or some color adjustments can greatly improve an otherwise mediocre image. I Photoshop nearly all of my images nowadays. With most of them it's just a bit of color/levels correction since my camera can do some awful things with indoor lighting, but playing around with effects in images is also one of my favorite pastimes. I view it as art, and I've seen some truly breathtaking doll photos that couldn't have been achieved without some creative retouching.

      Of course, I'm referring to photos as art, not sales. It seems it's pretty much the general consensus that Photoshopping pics to hide flaws in sales is ethically wrong, and I agree.
       
    15. Ok, I have to point out that the editing done in fashion magazines is a lot different than the usual editing of doll photographs. Fashion magazines have a horrible reputation of changing the way a woman's body is in build wise, cleaning up her skin tones, adding fake makeup, ect.
      Most doll enthusiasts don't change the way the sculpt looks except to maybe change the expressions on their dolls faces, luminosity of the picture, saturation or adding borders. I'm sorry, but that doesn't strike me as nearly the same editing as the "real people" photographs that are changed for fashion.
      The closest thing I could associate would be the "erasing" of the joints; editing the picture so the doll looks like an entire "human" form.
      And to me, if they can pull it off and it not look like the limb is out of socket, more power to them! ^__^


      Is it ok to do with my pictures as I so choose? I think so. I could edit in elf ears, jewelry, edit out wig hairs going everywhere. I take horrible pictures, but most of the time it's the only way I can salvage them to be presentable to others. (And my girls wig fibres just WON'T STAY PUT >_<)
      If it fools someone into buying a doll... well to be frank they are kinda... dumb. I don't know of anyone in the hobby that got one look, a singular look at a doll then just bought it. And if they simply looked at one picture a person on DoA took as they should get the doll-- they must have ignored all of the pictures to get to the ordering page on the site that makes the dolls. I don't really see what we could change so drastically that it could dissappoint people, after everything is said and done.
      Ummm. To be honest, you'll always find something about your doll to change. That's the point. There really isn't anyone who "buys all they want" for their dolls, because everything comes in or goes out. There's a constant change of what's available on the market. To me, that's like saying "Ok, this buffet gave me a great understanding of Chinese cuisine. I'm satisfied and never eating Chinese again. It doesn't make much sense.
      On the note of frustrations with others, I can say without shame that I would LOVE to get my hands on numerous of Zagzagael's angel dolls, because her pictures are amazing with them.
      On the same token, I would love to have several of Angel Hunts boy's, because the way they are photographed make them ever so gorgeous.

      In short, yes. They are art. You create something, like many other people do-- like bakers create bridal cakes or florists create elegant arrangements. You still take basic pieces that may not be pretty interesting on their own, and create something marvelous and unique. You mold a little person to your own image- be it the image of a character, or the image of another person, or even you.
      Unless you buy dolls with manufacterer faceups, the outfit the doll comes with, the wig the doll comes with, blah blah blah, it's extremely difficult to have two dolls that are alike.

      In short, I think that editing is perfectly fine, because in the end that's what the point of editing is- showing your creation to others in the glory that you see it.

      (On a side note, what if NO ONE edited their pictures? What if we ALL posted our fuzzy, crappy, grainy pictures? Wouldn't it give someone the WRONG impression about a doll? Would it possibly turn them OFF to buying that sculpt? Just think about it.)
       
    16. I like my doll the natural way she is. I want to change her faceup (the eyebrows just annoy me) but, I think its okay to edit the photos. I mean, not like to change like EVERYTHING, like change lip and increase breast size or somthing like that. Editing makeup Im fine with, but I dont want to change my doll completely. I do see your point though.
       
    17. I don't personally like editing, just because it skews true photography. I am by NO means a photographer, but I enjoy pure, un-edited photography, and strive to some day have that in my pictures.
       
    18. I agree with Lilith that editing photos is art in itself, but I think it should always be stated clearly if a photo has been edited, and edited photos should never be used in a sales post.
       
    19. I thought of that right away too, as did others. I know myself and several others I know, as well as some people on this board, who won't buy direct from DoD 'cause you have no idea what you are really getting. Sure, DoD's photoshopping makes the first doll look perfect and wonderful, but the pic-editing will likely decrease the likeliness of a second sale. A BIG loss since few ABJD collectors only own one doll.

      Another example I thought of was Iplehouse's Aaron. They have a pic of him bald and I was FLOORED! I thought the seams were somewhere in the back of the head until I saw on the bottom of the page that the company just edited the seams out. Hey! Don't try to trick us...if the doll has seams there, leave them!

      It comes down to intent. Photo editing to enhance color or to try to best present a doll who may not photograph well, okay. As long you are making the picture look as most like the actual doll as possible (say, HIGHLY enhancing the color of a beauty-white doll who looks almost tan in a pic. so that the pic more closely resembles the actual doll), I see no problem. Concealing seams, scratches, ugly joints, or anything of that nature...uh-uh.

      And as for non-sales pics, hey, I think some people here on DoA are famous for adding random cartoon-y expressions on their dolls which are just…just great. I mean, dolls can’t do much with their expressions. Use Jasc to pout those lips!
       
    20. Honestly, since I see my dolls as pieces of art, I'm in favor of editing photos of them--for artistic reasons. I'm already adjusting light levels, resettling their costumes, perfecting their wigs, and angling my camera for the ideal image. I'm very much in favor of using digital effects in my photos--whether sepia toning them, using speckle, layers, selecting specific colors out of a black-and-white photo, etc. It's nothing I wouldn't already do to a photo of a human. It's just an interesting effect added to the photo which, hopefully, causes some effect in the viewer--I want to communicate some emotion or idea. And I'm perfectly happy to share my tricks with other doll owners. I want to share the pleasure I get in making photographic art of my dolls.

      But perhaps that isn't the issue you're going for. Honestly, these dolls are already so close to the ideal aesthetically (they're dolls after all, and modeled to be perfect), that there isn't much that can be done to edit them to make them even more perfect

      That said, I don't think it's right for someone to edit a photo (or make it "overly artistic") if they are using it for a sale. Sale photos ought to be honest regarding the item being sold. Editing out stains or modifications isn't fair.