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Photo edits - more fake in a fake world?

Jan 5, 2008

    1. It's OK to use digital photography & editing to make my dolls look better than they actually do, sure. If I want to. I can't usually be bothered to, though. The dolls really photograph beautifully as-is, as snapshots.

      But if anybody tells me I can't 'morally' use Photo Editor to correct a stray hair, remove a fleck of dust from an eyeball, tweak the sharpness or softness, smudge out a visible seam or streak of dirt, or blur a hairline so you don't see a big elastic wig-band... those people can just ignore my pictures & go elsewhere in the Gallery.

      Sales pictures, now that issue REALLY should be a no-brainer.
       
    2. Its not wrong, but unless im doing graphics for a web project i wont edit them, i buy my bjds cause there cute in the first place ^^
       
    3. I dunno ...

      Editing photos of real people I can see, because there's a desire for perfection, but aren't the dolls already 'perfect' to begin with? What's the point of editing them?

      I feel like if you're editing them you're not getting the right type of photo you want in the first place and need to work harder at it. Photography is hard, and .. Ugh, how to put this?

      Basically the way I see it is that the dolls are so perfect looking that if you edit them you're probably not putting enough time into the photography itself.

      That is, if you're editing them for flaws, which is what I assumed the OP meant.

      If you're editing them for artistic reasons, whatever they may be .. I guess that's all right, but .. ehhh.

      I just don't like it.
       
    4. If dollowner use editing to make their shoots look nicer, than it's ok, I think. But in my opinion a lot of the official merchants let their dolls look better than they are and that kind of frightens me..
       
    5. No, they're not. They're very beautiful, but they're not perfect. Nothing is perfect.

      For example, in reality, doll-wigs often have visible hairbands... which may be fine for everyday snaps, but spoil the verisimilitude of a glamour portrait, no matter how 'perfect' the doll's face, makeup, etc. may be otherwise. If you're going after an idealized picture, instead of a more everyday snapshot, you must idealize the imperfect reality. So making the doll's hairline "artificially perfect" by blurring out the wigband is desirable. Cleaning up a doll photo in the same way that you'd clean up a magazine cover-photo of a person doesn't say anything about the lack or presence of photography skills; it's about making the photo look the way you want it to.
       
    6. This is a fascinating topic to me, not least of all because the only thing I do to 99% of my photogrpahs is crop them. No light changes, sharpness changes, and the like. And I've won prizes with my photos. I feel smug now. LMAO

      Anyway...I don't think it's amoral, per se, to edit photographs for business purposes, although it certainly is very annoying. In regards to art photography, I'd like to know if what I was looking at was significantly changed in an editing program. I guess I like the idea of natural photographs. Maybe that's odd.
       
    7. Not odd at all. It's just a different kind of taste than preferring idealised or glamour shots... a different 'niche', if you will. Compare it to guys who like really huge breasts in their pornography, and don't care how much silicone is in them, vs. guys who specifically require their porn to have only "all-natural" women in it. OK, giggle at the analogy if you must, but a niche of preference is a niche of preference, no matter the scene. ^_^

      And (also as with pornography ^^) many of us like both natural and glamour doll-photography, & don't really care whether a photo has been altered or not. As long as it's pleasing to our senses somehow.

      The particular photos I've won prizes with, too, not-so-oddly, have also been 'naturals'. When the light is just right, the wind is just right, the doll is standing just right, and all the Photo Faeries are with you... screw Photoshop! You are ON. <3
       
    8. QFE.

      First off, imo there's nothing wrong with NOT editing your photos--honestly, sometimes that can look better, depending on the look you're going for. Also, for sale photos, the only doctoring I think is 'right' is stuff done to correct color to look more like 'real life'--ie discoloration due to lighting and such.

      But there's also nothing inherently wrong with 'faking' this or that. I don't like outrageously photoshopped photos--you know, where it looks more cheesy than anything. But some tasteful editing can quite improve a photo, while not distorting the original image.

      I think part of the average user's dislike of editing is perhaps (photoshopped models aside--that's often reasonable imo) that Photoshop methods are widely known, and seem very 'cheap'. The thought that 'anyone and their dog' can use Photoshop is pretty prevalent, and pretty correct--but 'anyone and their dog' cannot use Photoshop WELL.

      With traditional photography, there's so many things to learn, so many things to know. I'm not going to claim to know it myself--but my parents were photographers, and I know things here and there. Let me tell you, all of the things to memorize are a lot of why I'm NOT a photographer. Digital cameras, and Photoshop, are comparatively simple.

      /rantend

      Hope I didn't digress.
       
    9. I post-process all my photos. Sometimes just for simple lighting, sometimes to achieve a mood. I certainly don't think it's wrong. Unless you're working with an DSLR you're going to be hard pressed to even get the correct or desired exposures before photo shop. And if you're not shooting in a controlled studio environment you may and probably will get unwanted elements in your photos.

      As long as you wield it well I think photo shop is a great tool for the digital photographer:

      This...
      [​IMG]
      Becomes this....
      [​IMG]
      This
      [​IMG]
      Becomes this
      [​IMG]

      The first is an example of heavy editing, the model has had her skin softened using a layer mask, the exposure has been tweaked, curves adjusted, and it's actually composed of 3 different layers one black and white. In the end I think the result was pretty pleasing :sweat . The Second photo has just had basic white balance and exposure corrections....

      I don't think I was 'cheating' or being overly fake in any of these photos, I created something pretty for me and others to look at. Personally I'd never post unedited photos and consider them a finished product. There is always something to correct even if It's a speck of dust near a models head. Photoshop isn't going to go away any time soon so I think Photographers should utilize best they can!
       
    10. Photo editing is part of the process of modern image making. This goes for magazines too - I don't want to see candid photography on Vogue, I want to see a pristine fantasy vision of perfect skin, perfect lighting, perfect color, perfect hair, etc etc etc! I couldn't care less if the model in reality looks like that; I know when I pick up the magazine that the image is a fiction, and I judge it by how beautiful and well-realized that fiction is, not how close it is to the truth.

      The same applies for doll photos. I don't look at a doll photo and think "Is this genuine?" but rather "Does it look good?" Sometimes photo editing is poorly done, true, but in most cases it does enhance the photography.

      When someone is offering an item for sale secondhand, however, they absolutely MUST have an unedited image. They can also post an edited image along with the unedited one, to give potential buyers an idea of how the item can look, but there should be at least one unedited photo Obviously I have no qualms about buying from a company (all of which used edited photos), but when it comes from a private individual who I don't know, then if they only have edited photos I am paranoid about whether they might be covering up wear and tear or damage.
       
    11. As a professional photographer, I must admit I've been reading this thread in a rather bemused fashion. Photographic "edits" have been done since the very first photographic image was captured. Period. It begins before the photo is even captured - with posing, lighting, soft filter application. Retouching, as we used to call it, was done in the darkroom on negatives and then printing techniques were applied during the next step. It's how the process, the art, works. Now that we can utilize a digital darkroom, the process of "editing" is almost seamless and that ease has led to the advent of very, very artistic digital manipulation. However, the surrealist photographers were doing similar manipulation seventy years ago...

      ALL digital images need to be post-capture processed - sized, sharpened, colour corrected. Definitely, for an item that is being sold, "editing" out flaws IS NOT OKAY. But editing for processing is absolutely okay. And then, "editing" or digitally enhancing an image for aesthetic purposes brings the result that the vast majority want to actually look at. A finished image that is properly colour balanced, cropped correctly, sharpened, and yes, in the case of the dollery, edited to remove stray hairs, dead pixels or soften a messy background, is going to be a more interesting photo than something taken straight out of the camera and posted on the web.
       
    12. Editing photos for personal use, such as gallery posts, photostories and art photography.. it's absolutely fine. Many people think of the photos they take of their dolls as artist's photography, and in which case, it's horribly rare to find a art photograph that hasn't been photoshopped or rendered in some way by computer. But that doesn't make it a bad photo, no, it just makes it a work of art. Because it's something you created, something you captured. :)

      Many people think of ABJD's themselves as art, as well.. and if it's YOUR piece of art, who's to tell you that you can't edit a photo of it a little?

      Although I draw one line on the editing. Marketplace editing. If you're editing out a scar or a blemish on a doll's faceup for a gallery post, fine - but don't lead people to believe that those flaws don't exist when selling your doll. Although.. there I go stating the obvious. ;)
       
    13. AMEN.

      (Even though I know it's not entirely what you meant, It also calls to mind the little girls who did a bit of photo editing and had everyone believing in faeries :lol: )
       
    14. Sure, my dolls are beautiful, but sometimes the conditions I take pictures of them in are not. The lighting isn't always ideal, for example, or I take a shot I think is cropped nicely, but when I look at it on the computer, I realize I should've tightened it a little.

      I see no reason why I can't adjust a colour cast in my picture, or if I see an odd hair out that's totally distracting my eye, why can't I remove it? Ideally, I try to take my photos and take them well enough so that I won't have to do much tweaking, but nothing ever comes off the camera perfect. That's what photo-editing software is for.

      As long as you don't use photo editing programs to deceive customers for sales, I don't see why you can't use them to enhance your photos for viewing pleasure, you know? ^^
       
    15. If it's just for gallery or showing off one's dolls I think artistry is just fine, editing a must, and all that.

      But for sales, its "sort" of ok, as long as the doll doesn't get misrepresented. Fixing stray hairs or adding more light so you can see it better, that's all fine but using editing to cover up doll mistakes, molds gone wrong, flaws, scratches or anything that would otherwise need to be fixed should be mentioned and not covered up. Basically the picture should be as truthful as it is visually beautiful.
       
    16. I think personal photos, it should be not even an issue to edit them. After all that's what photographers have been doing since... forever pretty much. What do you think a darkroom is for? I edit my photos, sometimes I will blur out backgrounds to make the doll stand out more, sometimes I will give them a hue that completely wasn't there. But I don't feel like it wrong, since I am not saying "Hay look what my camera makes by itself" or "Hey look how this doll looks exactly." I am taking photos of them, to portray them how I would like them to be seen. Photography is an art to me, though some people prefer plain natural look, thats good too.

      But like people have said, companies should keep the photoshopping to a minimum since anything like blurring or heavy color change can mask certain features of a doll, and buyers need to see the entire thing, as they will be getting it.
       
    17. I know that if I am looking at some doll sites, that their pictures are the best shots and are photoshopped to sell the doll or item. I realize this and take it with a grain of salt when trying to decide if I would purchase the doll. This is why I like to buy a doll second hand because I can get a really good idea of what they look like from the unshopped pictures that are posted. I would hate it if someone photoshopped their item and it arrived and wasn't at all like the picture. LoL!!!!

      But if you are doing for art and not sales, I say go for it!
       
    18. I don't think it's wrong at all. As much as airbrushing models and celebrities in magazines is frowned upon, it still happens.

      As other people have said, doll sites edit theirs so there's no reason why owners shouldn't, I just bear the editing in mind when considering a purchase (and look at owner pictures).

      Colour tweaking, cropping, removing elements (stray hairs, stands etc) is something nearly everyone does.
      Dolls already have unnaturally perfect skin so most of the time there's no need to airbrush though.
       
    19. I don't see anything wrong with it *_* Actually, dolls look different from what you see in photos anyway, even when the photos aren't manipulated. Photography is deceiving, a good photographer, with the right skills can make miracles, that's why it's an art form. Photo manipulations are a kind of art too, not everyone can do it (at least I can't :lol:) and it can create beautiful pictures.

      Last but not least, if someone is going to buy a bjd it's crazy to buy a doll just because they like someone else's photos of that mold. It's the buyer's job to research as much as they can to make sure it's the bjd they want. Blaming someone else is... just making excuses.
       
    20. Photos without editing are not "pure reality". Depends on the kind of camera, the light... the photo will become different of what we see in live sure.

      I think, editing photos is right. For selling, a little change of light, for example, to see the product better is ok. For art, I think all is ok! It's part of creativity with our dolls.