Poll: "An" MSD/SD or "a" MSD/SD?

Dec 30, 2016

?
  1. SAME: "a" [Mini] Super Dollfie and "a" MSD/SD

    9.5%
  2. SAME: "an" [Mini] Super Dollfie and "an" MSD/SD

    3.6%
  3. DIFFERENT: "a" [Mini] Super Dollfie and "an" MSD/SD

    84.5%
  4. DIFFERENT: "an" [Mini] Super Dollfie and "a" MSD/SD

    1.2%
  5. DIFFERENT: MSD/SD are not the same

    1.2%
  6. DIFFERENT: Mini Super Dollfie and Super Dollfie are not the same

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
    1. I'm not particularly interested in which is correct, but I noticed when hearing/seeing others (and myself) speak/write about BJDs, people follow different conventions.

      I hope I'm not starting a grammar war in the comments, but I just wanted to see if anyone else noticed something funny about their own speech (or perhaps you eliminate this inconsistency):

      I say "an" MSD/SD, but "a" Mini-Super Dollfie and "a" Super Dollfie. (I believe this is because I pronounce MSD "em-ess-dee" and SD "ess-dee," both of which start with a vowel sound.)

      I guess if someone is really passionate about there way being right and wants to write a rant, that's fine, but please be nice to others with a differing opinion! (If you're anything like my family, I'd hate to cause chaos on a forum made to share such a harmless and captivating interest)

      If anyone has any similar related anecdotes about other languages, I'm game to read them too!
       
      • x 1
    2. Yeah i'm just not getting involved in this. Not worth getting attacked.
      So removing my reply.

      Not doing it. Not playing this stupid game. I'm done.
       
      #2 purple_monkfish, Dec 30, 2016
      Last edited: Dec 31, 2016
    3. It depends on if Im saying "MSD/SD" or "mini super dolfie / super dolfie"

      If Im using the letters, I'll say "AN" if Im saying the long version I say "A"

      Because the letter M said aloud is "em" and S is "ess", which both start with a vowel sound.


      Language is weird lmao
       
      • x 1
    4. I didn't realize, but I do it too, despite it be wrong grammatically. Probably for the same reason
       
    5. I use 'a' as I have no clue what is 'proper'. I've been out of school for soooooooo long, and have gotten lazy! This is an interesting question as I've seen both used, and have wondered. Now I'll have to look it up as I'm curious, not that it really matters, lol.
       
    6. "An" is correct when your using MSD/SD because when you spell out "M" or "S" it would be "EM"/"ES" phonetically speaking. Whenever a word starts with a vowel we use "an" rather than "a". So it's not an inconsistency because the use of "an" or "a" depends on the sound at the beginning of the next word and whether or not that sound is a vowel or a consonant.
       
      • x 3
    7. Same as the others.
      Short version gets AN, long gets A, because of the whole "EM-ES-DEE" and "ES-DEE".
      It just rolls off your tongue better if you add the n :'D
       
    8. Verbally I say 'an msd/sd' due to the vowel sound, I catch myself typing it sometimes but I try to correct myself since the rule doesn't apply to the written forms
       
    9. FWIW, I don't think the rules of English pronunciation and grammar will pay much attention to an Internet poll.

      In English, the pronunciations of the acronyms would be an MSD and an SD, because (as @NamelessPierrot said) the consonant M is pronounced "ehm" and S is pronounced "ehs," beginning (counterintuitive as it may seem) with a vowel sound. They're written the same way, and for the same reason. It grates on both my ear and my eye when I see "a MSD" or "a SD" in writing, because "a M" and "a S" are so very wrong in English. (This is the case in both speech and writing -- I'm not sure where the idea came from that there are two sets of English grammatical conventions, except maybe from some of the differences between modern British and modern American usage, but I really am digressing now.)

      But that's only for the acronyms. The correct forms of the full phrases would be a Mini Super Dollfie and a Super Dollfie -- in my Midwestern American accent, using the schwa sound "uh" instead of pronouncing the name of the letter "ay" -- because the words "mini" and "super" begin with a pure consonant sound -- "mmmm" and "sssss."

      This holds true only for English -- but then, the indefinite articles "a" and "an" belong only to English. Other languages that use the Roman alphabet pronounce the names of the letters differently. If I remember my high-school French correctly, French speakers don't say "ay, bee, see, dee" the way English speakers do -- they say "ah, beh, seh, deh." And in French, definite articles are contracted because of pronunciatiom -- l'ange, not la ange or le ange, speaking of a noun whose gender I can't remember at all. (Digression again -- over and out!)


      No, "grammatically speaking," it isn't correct, however many lols you add. Do you really say "a M?" Really?
       
      #9 Cynthia in FlintHills, Dec 31, 2016
      Last edited: Dec 31, 2016
      • x 3
    10. Yeah I would. Sorry but I would. I don't tend to SAY "msd" with A or An before anyway, I usually would write it down.
      I probably fluctuate between the two quite arbitrarily but yeah...
      M is M, not "em" in my brain.
      Dunno why, maybe because I think in visual terms not auditory?

      You don't have to be rude about it.

      I think i'll be blocking you now. You seem quite unnecessarily hostile about stupid stuff and i've no interest in typing to someone with such an attitude.
       
    11. English isn't my first language so I can't add much to the debate but, just like everyone else mentioned, when the letters M and S are pronounced, it sounds like "em" and "es". So, since it begins with a vowel sound and we are saying the letters one by one, I would say "an" MSD/SD. But I'd use "a" with Mini/Super Dollfie.
       
    12. At first i thought this was a poll on whether or not people make the distinction between Mini Super Dollfie and other mini sized dolls when discussing them, since they are square vs. rectangle issue, but instead it's grammar....
      I see a lot of people use "a" before the acronyms, and I immediately assume that English is not their first language or they are still in elementary school.
       
    13. I'm following the exact same logic as @skyf
      I say "Em ess Dee" or "Ess Dee" so I'd use "an" before MSD or SD because I pronouce it with a vowel, even if they're not spelt with vowels. Then when I say or write "Mini Super Dollfie" or "Super Dollfie" (which I seldom do) I use "A" because neither of them start with a vowel.
      English is a funny, fickle thing, no?
       
      • x 1
    14. I think the issue is because we never used to use initialism in English. The sound of the letters names never used to matter in speech as much as it does now. English is so odd, and seemingly random, mainly because we keep changing it in ways for which it was not originally built. It's really quite interesting I think! :)
       
      • x 1
    15. English is not my first language, and while I'm fluent, sometimes random bits of grammar like that escape me. I've actually caught myself uncertain if I should use a or an for this exact situation a few times now, haha. An sounds better in my head, so it's my usual choice (the other choice being making my phrase so I don't need to use an article at all just in case), but sometimes I wondered what the grammar actually did have to say about articles before acronyms like that. So I guess what I'm saying is I'm grateful for this thread, now I won't second guess myself anymore! Not in this case at least. :lol:
       
    16. Just tossing in a comment as someone in a linguistics class/an English grad student:

      "Grammatically correct" is kind of a... well, it's a variable thing. The English language does have "rules", yes, but those rules aren't created by some great institution of English somewhere- they're created by English speakers/writers. And most importantly, like all languages, English changes over time. It evolves. If we adhered to the same rules as the early English speakers, we'd sound like untranslated Beowulf, haha.

      More specifically relevant, there's a thing in English called acronymy, which is where we invent new words using acronyms. For example, "scuba" or "laser". For those of us in the doll hobby, "msd" is as much a spoken word as "dollfie". It's no longer just the letters M-S-D, it's a word unto itself, usually pronounced "em-ess-dee". So naturally it would have to be fit into spoken and written English with "rules" based on its pronunciation and its spelling. What those rules eventually turn out to be, though, is what's being polled here. We're basically creating the rules ourselves, within our community. We're changing English for this small subset of speakers/writers.

      This isn't meant to correct anyone or get on anyone's case, I'm not even responding to a particular post. I'm just tossing it out there that, as long as it's in the common usage, it's correct. And if it's not the more commonly used version, then it'll just eventually fall by the wayside. That's how it goes.

      tl;dr: Language evolution is cool and we're seeing it in action. This is a great poll btw.
       
      • x 1
    17. If I am not mistaken, one uses "an" prior to a word starting with a vowel, or a soft consonant.
       
    18. Yes that is mostly true as far as I'm aware but the confusion surrounding it comes from the pronunciation of MSD/SD as they are pronounced "Em ess dee" and "ess dee" respectively, both of which start with a vowel sound. Unless you're very phonetic and pronounce them "muh suh duh" or "Suh duh", there's a bit of confusion.

      I'm tempted to start referring to them as "Mike sierra delta" and "Sierra delta" just to amuse myself. Just iimagine it; "Where can I buy a Muh suh duh" or "Look at my new Sierra Delta"
       
    19. This is an interesting topic. I think I would say:
      AN sd(Es-d)
      A super dollfie
      A mini super dollfie
      AN msd(Em-s-d.)
       
    20. I say 'a' Mini/Super Dollfie, and then 'an' MSD/SD.