Poll: swapping

I participated in both Valentine Swaps. For both, I followed directions and sent out my gifts on time. In one swap, I got an awesome partner who went above and beyond what was required and I was so pleased when our gift arrived. In the other swap, I have not received a gift nor have I received ANY kind of contact. I have PM'd the swap organizer and posted in the thread, but have not had any response...other than someone getting annoyed at me for posting on the list that I haven't received anything. So, I vote for a list of bad swappers that could be shared with swap organizers.

 

I think a public list would be a bad idea, personally. I've never not sent a swap gift. Sometimes I'm a bit late with them, due to things going on around here... but I've never not sent it.

However, I often don't receive swap gifts... and yet... I keep on swapping anyways. It's annoying yes, but I pretty much just like giving people stuff, so that's why I keep doing it.

Anyways, my reason for being wary of a public list is, I can forsee people who think they got a "bad" gift putting someone's name on the list. We don't all have the same talents, so an outfit someone tried really hard to make might not look top quality, but it doesn't mean that effort wasn't put in... and I just don't want to see a list that starts dogging people for trying hard, even if their efforts weren't 100% top-notch.

If the mods could keep a list of people who are bad swap partners... a Private list, then I think that would stem a lot of hurt feelings and flame wars... or, even if someone, a noteably reliable swapper, wanted to keep the list, that'd be cool. Then when people start a swap, they can PM the person (or small number of persons) and ask for the info.

 

I'll agree with the list being private. There are good reasons for not following through with commitments, but I don't think the people that follow through should be penalized by getting a dud for a swap partner.

 

That's exactly the point. Even if it's only a 10$ swap, if someone bails on it, who's to say that they won't bail on sending your 10$ shoes when you buy them? Swaps are a perfectly good reason to give bad feedback.

Swaps are NOT gift giving, they are SWAPPING. If you want to be kind and just give a gift, then volunteer to be an extra for those people that get ditched.

I like the idea of a warning list before people actually aren't allowed to be in swaps. Say that a person has joined 1 swap and they couldn't go through with it, that's their warning. A swap organizer can see that it was only one time, and give them a second chance. If they ditch that one too, there's obviously a pattern. After 3 times, I would NOT let them on another swap.

Punishing people on the first time isn't the best idea, but if someone is making a pattern of it, everyone deserves to know that they're not trustworthy or that they have a lot of problems sending items out, bought OR gifts.

That's why, as an example, if I receive a gift and I knew that I couldn't go through with sending my gift, I would forward the gift I got (if it wasn't an A->B, B->A thing). That would take me completely out of the swap loop. If the gift has been sent, forward it, if it hasn't, contact the person running the swap, and tell them to give the address of your partner to the person sending your gift to you, so they can give it to the other person. Everyone would still get a gift, despite the fact that someone ditched.

 

Despite all the misgivings, i would still vote for a public list of defaulting swappers -- perhaps not posted by swapmeisters themselves, but PMed by them to a moderator who would then update a public master list.


There would have to be some guidelines on what constituted a default, but i think the primary one would be communication or lack thereof.


I've been a swap DJ for years (oy.) in other communities, and while i've never had someone completely default, there is sometimes a an awful long delay, even in just the communication. That's fine, really; real life takes precedence, and "slow" is not the same as "deadbeat." On the other hand, while swaps are fun, people need to know that it's not as casual as they'd like to think. It's a huge investment of time, especially for the leader, and to just grab some stuff and bounce is not acceptable. It looks bad all around, and then the DJ has to scrabble to take up the slack.


I don't really see where the drama comes in; there's the good and bad trader's lists, and while someone kicks up a fuss on occasion, it really dosen't seem to be OMG Teh Bomb. Perhaps just for fairness' sake, there should also be a list of good swappers. (and swap DJs!)



--- yadda yadda below


This, and questions of the quality of items turned in, is why i much prefer to run centralized swaps rather than round-robin or partnered. It costs more in postage, but when i have all items in hand, i know exactly who is and isn't sending, who i can and cannot wait for, and who's going to get what.


(it may seem a bit cruel, but i do match items for quality/time investment in swaps. The person who turned in the beaded brocade gets the silk hand-embroidered purse in return; the person who could only make a simple item gets a simple thing in return, along with some gifties from me. It almost always works out, and if one item is a particular Dogg, with no care involved, i keep it for myself and send that person the simplest thing and the odd-man-out something else.


i've been a maker-of-stuff, sometimes semi-professionally, for many years; i can tell the difference between someone who's put in the effort but is no expert, or someone who's work is not to my taste, from a person who hot-glues a sloppy bow onto a button. I would trust a person who's fool enough (heh) to run a swap would be at least that knowledgeable about the chosen item.)

 

I don't participate in swaps, for reasons akin to this, but I'm for a public list of accountability, just from a consumer's POV. It's true, I wouldn't want to do marketplace business with someone who flaked in a swap - or at least I'd like to know so I could inquire about it and hear the person's story/excuse before doing business. Plus, there's always the option of taking them off the list when they finally do reestablish contact or send their item. There's no rule saying people can't redeem themselves and once a swap is over, they can't send out their late stuff, right?
Re: flame wars over it, just don't start them.

 

I used to participate in and host a lot of art swaps and this does seem the fairest way to go about it, although it does take significant time and effort on the part of the organizer.

 

For me this is simple...I think that the names should be posted...like in a list. But with NO comments or flaming...just the names.

And the rule or guideline should be an umbrella type of rule, covering any and all types of excuse this person might have for not sending anything.

The person who didn't receive a gift is not allowed to post anyone's name unless you have gone through certain steps and have allowed the stated amount of time to have gone by.

For example...maybe emailing and PM'ing the person at least once each and setting up X amount of days after the swap deadline has ended for this person to still have a sencond chance to send the gift.

JMHO

 

I should think that time and effort are things that a person expects to have to deal with when they decided to become a swap organizer. If they're not going to be able to handle putting their time and effort in then they should leave it for someone else to do.

Obviously, the quality of swaps isn't only the responsibility of the people sending and recieving items, the organizers have to be ready to accept that they're a BIG part of making everything run smoothly as well.

 

Sola: I think that's a great idea. I know my gift in the Valentine's swap wasn't the best, and I'm going to feel awful if I get something totally awesome. Even though I put a lot of time and effort and thought into my gift, I still feel like I would be ripping someone off if I got something really cool..

 

Yeah, and the round-robin, though by far the easiest to set up and run, is also the most prone to deadbeats. I ran one of those exactly once, and after having no less than four people say "Oh, i thought i could just send it whenever!" (what, you think the deadline is just me telling you what today is?) and two of those send crappy store-bought items, one to one of my most tried-and-true, talented swappers.. never again.

See, but if you put in time, effort, and thought.. it always shows, and it will always be loved. For serious. I hope you get a really awesome item in return.

 

I was only thinking this today. Perhaps a list could be created just warning people this has happened, for future reference?

 

I ahevnt' aprticipated in a swap (thinking about the craft swap soon) and I know I would be really upset if I sent something to someone, expecting something in return, and got nothing.There were a couple things on how it would reflect them on the good and bad sellers/traders list. If they didn't go through with a swap, I wouldn't trust to buy something from them. Buying an item is a swap. Money being one object, and the item of course being the other. I know I would be really upset, not just angry but hurt as well, because it devalues you. It makes you feel stupid for participating in a swap and actually beleiving they would be honest.
There are alot of honest people out there, but there are also alot of dishonest ones, and when you're trading or swapping something, there's a time and effort and money put into whatever they're swapping, and people need to know who's going to shirk out of them.
I think the same with the idea of having the people who participated on the swap page and having shipped or not shipped by their name, because if it's shipped late, they can edit it and show that it was shipped and it only singles out the people who didn't follow through. Also, just letting people know you're doing that would keep the people who don't follow through from joining. Even if you did plan on it, you wouldn't want everyone around the world to know you are a bad swapper. Embarrassment in a powerful motivator.

 

I know this thread is about failing to send a gift, but the subject of quality/effort for quality/effort has been raised as well. I think in a forum like this it would be hard to keep tabs on that unless the organizer gathers everything and then resends. UNLESS, organizers hand pick the participants...which is, basically, what we ended up doing in the art swaps I was in because several of us got tired of putting in lots of effort and getting crap in return.

I entered the swaps for fun because I do like giving and I expected that I might not get something equivalent to what I sent and that was OK. I will admit that since these were my first swaps, I did not give my all (meaning, I didn't spend countless hours making some totally awesome) because I've been burned in swaps in other forums before, but I did try to send something nice or something especially for my partner based on their preferences. I wanted to see what swapping on DoA was like. One of my partners happened to go way over what was required and I was so pleased when we got the gift, but that was her choice to do more (and made me wish I'd done more!). In the other swap, I followed all the rules and expected to at least get something in return...even if it was just a good reason for not sending a gift.

I have finally heard from the swap organizer who said she has contacted my partner, but has heard nothing back. I do hope the person is OK, but I would expect that if something did happen, unless it's tragic and they are honestly unable to communicate, they could at least let the organizer know they had to drop out. I still think a private list of names shared among those who want to organize swaps would be helpful.

 

I like the idea of the shipped/not shipped list, that really would show who's flaking after a certian amount of time... I was on a swap on the Junky Spot forumn, and we all had issues and were a little late sending things, but we all posted in the thread that we were having issues. I like them, there are so many more girl patterns that are cute, and I would like to sew, but my boy only wears boy's clothes...I do feel bad since I'm not that great of a sewer, I'm getting better, but I'm nowhere as good as some of the people on here. That being said, I have a great idea for the sci-fi swap!

 

The only problem with this is that some people on DoA have already proven time and again that they can't stick to umbrella type rules... especially when flaming starts. Then the thread gets locked or deleted and you've got to start all over... if you're even allowed to.

 

I'm holding a swap now, and I guess I thought too simply when I thought a simple blacklist would work. ^^;;

I thought if you didn't send the item you were supposed to, you would simply be listed and not allowed to sign up again until you sent one. I didn't take into consideration the possibility of flaming... >.>;; Perhaps it would be better to keep the blacklist private only for swap organizers.

As for a swap being a swap and not a gift: It is precisely the reason that I don't use the word 'gift' at all in my first post. I simply use the words 'swap item' or 'item'.

As for quality: I think as long as the item in question is decently sized and made within the monetary value described in the swap, it is fine. I think the recipiant has the right to say, "I don't think it's enough, could you please send more?" as long as it is reasonable. I also think many people do go above and beyond what they are supposed to send out and this raises the bar and makes those who did send the minimum amount's worth look bad.
Bottom line: Even if you sent out an awesome package, if the swap specifies a certain limit, that's the limit you should be expecting. If you decide to do more, that's your choice and one that might not be reciprocated.

 

The problem of dead beat swappers seems to be in all groups, even small ones. I have been part of swaps here (1 so far) and on other groups and sometimes people DO have the best of intentions and time just gets away from them. If it is a chronic problem with that person, it certainly is a bummer on the receiving end :-)

 

The best swap system I saw was on a quilting board, in which fabric swaps were common. First, all swaps I remember were centralized. So if you didn't send, you didn't receive, end of story. If what you sent wasn't up to snuff, it was sent back to you. Also important, however, was that welching on a swap was a forum offense. It was a mark against you, just like trolling or flaming another member. If you got three of them, you were banned.
Swaps on that board were pleasure to participate in, and they had very few problems with welchers.

Of course, I understand if the mods don't want to get so intimately involved with swaps, just like they no longer moderate with marketplace issues.

Nonetheless, I'm quite in favor of some consequence to bad swappers, because the problem seems to have become so rampant. In a recent discussion about this issue, a poster counted how many people had not sent items out by 10 days after the deadline for the latest swap had passed, and a full third of swappers had not yet sent their items. Now, I'm sure some (I hope most) of those people were late and did/will eventually send. Nonetheless, a 33% failure rate is simply not acceptable.