Poor body type representation in the doll community!

@manabusama : Oh I definitely care more about aesthetics too, but it is true that, unlike every other body I own, that plus-size body can't really stand safely on its own (or perhaps I just suck, lol). The range of motion isn't as great or as natural either, in my opinion. And it's a nightmare to restring. And since they use more resin, they tend to be more expensive too. And for that price, you don't get the seams sanded. None of it was a dealbreaker for me since I absolutely wanted that plus-size body, but I can see why a sculptor may want to do another "model-like" body rather than an unconventional body with so many risks and downsides that may repel a buyer. Besides, if you can't sew, it's a pain to find clothes for them, so a buyer may take that into account as well.

Plus-size females, while uncommon, definitely exist. It's a pain to get them because there are often offered only on small preorders (the Argodoll maker only open one preorder a year, but they also offer a wide range of resin color. And I definitely think that getting one of the Argodoll plus-size bodies is waaaaaay easier than getting some of the other plus-size bodies, like the Summerbird or Morningstar. Butterflyandthings has an Etsy shop, but it seems it was closed or something? It's a shame, it was the most realistic plus-size I saw). There are other threads on that subject if it interest you, I am pretty sure someone else already listed the companies that made plus-size females. I would consider rare plus-size male and aged bodies. Or perhaps I just watched too many plus-size female bjd while looking for one and I have not looked for plus-size males and aged bodies. XD

 

Have a good look around on Instagram and you will you will find quite a lot of artists creating plus-size BJDs.

 

Is this directed at me? Whether you like someone's assumption of whether you're supporting the types of dolls you're asking for or not, the logic stands. If you want more of something to be made, you have to buy and support and share that thing. Asking for something because you want to SEE it doesn't pay the bills and doesn't encourage more artists to make it. Relying on some nebulous theoretical other people to buy the dolls doesn't help if you yourself are not buying them. I would be interested in how many of the people wanting to "see" certain kinds of dolls have actually bought ones of the same type. I've looked at a few profiles and haven't seen any listed. If it's a matter of them being off-topic on DoA that's definitely something that should be looked into and changed.

As far as difficulty of sculpting, you could definitely apply your own logic about horror dolls to elderly dolls or plus size dolls or other alternatives. I would say with the rise of 3d sculpting and printing it's never been easier to make your own dolls and as I mentioned in an earlier post there are more and more of those types of dolls being posted and sold on instagram. There are even artists who will model a custom doll for you and artists that will take your solid model and cut it apart, hollow it out, and create joints for it basically making your solid statue into a working doll which I think is so amazing and plan to hire such a person at some point

 

I'm in the same boat, I feel like I've analyzed every 65+cm male doll in existence and none of them are just right for what I want. I've decided to go down the 3d sculpting route and hire someone else to do the joints.

 

@Nefla Not referring to anyone in particular. That sentiment (that no one is really buying fat/old/"ugly" dolls, and they're just complaining... to be difficult? Because it's fun?) is pretty common when this topic is brought up. But it's just false. Diverse dolls may not be the #1 most popular option, but they are still selling well and we've seen the options improve dramatically over the past ~5 years as a result. And we want them to keep improving.

You can't buy something until it's made. A lot of us are expressing interest in certain body types because doing so is one way to encourage a sculptor to pursue that interest. I know the amount of people expressing interest in wanting a chubby male body has inspired me in my attempts to sculpt one. If nobody expresses interest in something, an artist would be reasonable to assume that nobody wants it.

I admit I don't understand what you're getting at in the second paragraph. Making your own doll or paying for a custom-sculpted doll is an option, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't still express interest in more diversity, or that doing so is lazy or unwilling to invest. Some of us talk about things we'd like to see (read: BUY) while attempting to sculpt it ourselves.

Also I will warn that trying to judge anything based on DOA doll profiles is a bit foolish. I have probably 20% (or less) of my collection on DOA and I'm willing to bet many others have even less. My Of Butterflies N Things Nicola isn't in my profiles because making profiles is a pain, not because I never bought her.

 

I mean I’ve sold 44 of my plus-size off topic BJDs since starting to last June. So people ARE buying them.

 

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@manabusama :Their winter preorder just ended, the next one will probably be at the end of this year. since they tend to open it around autumn-winter. You'll have to wait for the announcement on their Instagram account Argonautica Dolls (@argodoll) • Instagram photos and videos The plus-size body is made in SD, MSD and mini-size and they propose a lot of skin tones (including a beautiful brown), though not green. They make custom color though. Depending on the side of the head, it could be a curvy body rather than a plus-size, I hybrided that body with one of the Maskcat head, which was 8-9 inch in circumference, so rather bigger than the Argodoll head, and it gave "voluptuous woman" vibes, not " plus-size" vibe.



I think Butterflyandthings started their plus-size body by a Kickstarter, and it was successful. So it has been done before and such a strategy could be done again for another rare body type I think.

 

I admit, I come from the fashion doll environment, so I like my girls thin. But I get it that not everyone's like me. I like idealism, people like realism and that's beautiful.

That being said, I wish there was more diversity in the following areas:

+ breast size. I love skinny, adult-looking girl dolls with super tiny breasts. Often, that's hard to find. Especially that I'd love the small breasts to be realistic and not "bra-ready" and roundish. Someone else in this thread mentioned the case of Ausley by Dollshe and how controversial her breasts were. Now i've been wanting for the past two days to some day get that body for the sake of her breasts alone

+ I wish that there were more short-legged girls out there. I mean, when translated to human proportions, just average. but I wish there was more diversity, so that not all girl dolls (or 95%) were made just out of legs, a thin waist-line and large breasts. I want some torso too. My Zaoll has that. When compared to my other girls, she seems short-legged. In fact, she's just "average".

+ As for the boys, I love the 56cm tall bodies by Doll Family A and H (I have the DF-A one). I wish it was more acceptable/popular to have taller girls paired with shorter guys, or guys of the same height. But, I guess it's really reflective of real life in that it shows how insecure the short guys are. I say it from a perspective of a tall girl who'd not mind dating a shorter guy and who's heard insane stories about guys forbidding their girlfriends to wear high heels, forcing their dates to walk besides the pavement so that he'd seem taller, etc. Insane, really. So, I'm really happy to have one boy who's 56 and is paired with my 58-60cm tall girls. I have another one coming up, but I'll pair him with my tallest girl and make her wear high heels, so that she'll tower him as well. I love it!

As for the "plus size" I wish it was generally more reflective of real life. Often the "plus size" are just "average" in real life. I'm sorry, but size 12 is not plus size. Large hips and a thin waistline is not plus size either. So, if there was an affordable (key feature for me) body which had a larger tummy *too* and not just a big, but perfectly shaped ass tucked to a wasp-waist and perfect, large breasts, then even the fashion-doll-lover me would feel tempted. For that reason I *love* the classic volks boys with their roundish, not-six-pack'ed tummies, or Islanddoll Angel Dove body with its cute tummy and sausage-shaped, unmuscled arms. Yeah, I love that! My petite SD boy has that too...

Below, I have a photo of him (blue-haired) next to my classic volks girl body, whose tummy is also slightly, cutely protruding. I wouldn't mind if they were still after "one more dinner"

 

Sorry, let me clarify what I mean by the second paragraph. I don't think difficulty of sculpting is a main reason for people not sculpting certain body types, as you said there are people who sculpt horror dolls which seems like it would be more difficult. The part about indie artists on instagram and so on was more a rambling tangent for those who think that there are NO artists making what they want or that it's impossible to find what they want. The part about digital sculpting becoming more attainable is newer information to me and I find it exciting. (I'm not calling anyone lazy, I'm not sure where you got that from)

As for why myself and others assume that not as many people are putting their money where their mouth is when it comes to dolls is because we're not seeing owners of those dolls share or talk about their dolls (I mostly look at BJDs in FB groups and don't see them posted there either). If that's wrong then it's wrong but that's what we're seeing and if we don't see it, how likely is it that aspiring artists or potential customers with similar tastes will see it?. Expressing this isn't trying to be mean or to concoct a scheme to intentionally pretend people don't support the dolls they ask for when we know they do. We can only go by what we see and when people ask a question, "why aren't there more dolls that look like ___" the simplest answer is usually the correct one "because there's not enough of a market for them." That coupled with experience as an artist/business with people saying "I would love to see ____" you make ____ but no one shows up to buy ____ creates a knee jerk reaction.

Long story short though, it doesn't matter what either of us thinks or assumes. As long as people are buying the dolls that ARE being made, people will continue to make them and more people will follow the trend. The best thing anyone can do for something they love is to financially support it and show other people how good it is. I've seen a few people in this thread trying to shame doll companies as a whole for only making idealized dolls and shame and guilt are not good motivators.

 

I think I see what you mean, that's true. Sculpting difficulty is not a barrier to diverse bodies any more than it's a barrier to any other type of difficult feature. So the barrier seems mostly to be stigma and underestimation of demand, from what I can see.

People making the assumption that others don't want diverse body types is part of the reason they haven't really been made until recently. That's why I think it's important to not assume that requests for more diversity are frivolous or performative merely based on the fact that you personally don't see them. What you see on social media is heavily tailored to you personally, so your experience is likely very different from others. I see a ton of discussion and sharing of diverse bodies all over BJD social media (Instagram, tumblr, facebook, even places like Weibo), so to me the suggestion that people don't buy them seems preposterous.

It's just frustrating to see people who are ignorant of the actual success of these dolls make claims that they sell poorly without proper consideration.

As for people in this thread shaming doll companies, I don't really recall anything more than general disappointment at the BJD industry as a whole. Which I don't think counts as "shaming" so much as just a commentary or criticism about general trends. But certainly "calling out" any particular company by name is not productive either.

 

I agree as well. I want my dolls to look as close to perfect as I can get them. I like the fantasy faces, bodies and overall looks. But I can understand that not everyone wants the same.

 

I find lots of non-plus size mature dolls are still mostly super curvy and unrealistically busty. There are so much movement these days for plus size but never be for skinny ones like me, so I feel your pain. I adore the bodies from Nakana Workshop and Maskcat Doll for being actually looking close to myself with less curve and very small breast. (but not too bony). But I also understand why there aren't much diversity. They don't exist to satisfy everybody. They are mostly artists with their own aesthetics for those consumers who appreciate them.

 

I'd love more general lists of dolls with "imperfect" bodies so to speak. I only collect tinies, and I am OBSESSED with Donny's work at Dream High Studio. He has little elf and gnome dolls that are old, wrinkled, warty, fat, you name it. I am really wanting a Poppy Marigold, with her giant wrinkly hands and her old lady bod, in my eye that is the most "perfect" doll I can think of. Show me a wrinkly doll body with fat and scars and pock marks and Im like HEARTEYES PERFECTION

I think this is always going to a be a sensitive topic as a lot of how we see "dolls" and their bodies can also be applied to how we see ourselves! I'm going to stay out of that discussion, but encourage folks to make some lists of dolls with more interesting body types. I'd be happy to do one for the tiny dolls, I don't collect MSD or SD so I can't speak on that.

Also desperately want a Teacup marionette from DoDollsDream. That little belly pouch :OOOOOOO

Also for clothes: I sew all my own doll clothes and love sewing for different body types. it's defintiely a challenge, esp at that size. But dang is it fun