Q: Artist or Collector? A: Doll Enthusiast!

Well, as a fine artist that is inescapable, and I suppose I am a collector, kind of a bad one, as I am always a bit clueless, like I have to ask, what doll is that? and so on.

 

I don't consider myself an artist, collector or investor. I consider myself a doll hobbyist/enthusiast.

The dictionary's description of a hobby/hobbyist: An activity or interest pursued for pleasure or relaxation and not as a main occupation; Someone who takes part in such activities. The dictionary's description of an enthusiast: A person who is filled with enthusiasm for some principle or pursuit. I think that describes me perfectly. Though I would indeed like to be a doll collector of sorts (meaning to own what someone could call a collection - a group of dolls, not just one or two) and also a doll photographer of sorts someday (meaning not professionally, but as a hobby and being reasonably good at it - I really suck with a camera currently ).

But I have to say, I don't see how a collector or investor is cold-hearted, like you said in your first post. Cold-hearted is what I would call someone who throws puppies off cliffs, not someone who outbids you on an auction. How do you know enough about the person on the other side of the screen to be able to make such judgements about them? A lot of collectors love their dolls just as much, if not more in some cases, than the 'average' person in the doll hobby.

And a lot of investors are actually doll lovers/collectors/hobbyists/what-have-yous too, just because they buy and sell dolls doesn't mean they don't have their own doll families/collections/etc too. You may see them buying and selling dolls, while you don't see them enjoying their own dolls in the same way as you, because all you've seen of them is the business side; you really don't know a person well enough just by looking at their ebay history (which is ONLY about business) to make such a judgement about a person as you know nothing about the person from that. The only way to walk into a hobby like BJDs and make a profit is to be very deeply and personally in the hobby as well, to be passionate about it, to learn a lot about them. They are passionate enough about BJDs to do things like that, to devote that much time to learning about them. It's not something that can be so easily judged.

 

Thank you whomever fixed that "artist or collector". That "Artist of Collector" was pissing me off LOL
I didn't read that whole original post, but no there is not conflict. Artists are sometimes called eccentric, and collecting dolls can be considered eccentric, so their sort of hand in hand IMO. A creative outlet for the obsessive compulsive ;-P

 

Yes this person that won no doubt is just someone that has allot of dolls but might well still be very much emotionally attached to winning that doll not for an investment! or reselling but for loving the doll. A person can have allot of dolls and still feel that deep yurning you felt.

That gut wrenching feeling you had is horrible I know it! I had that happen with a oak outfit once that there was no way I would be able to reproduce it. I watched it go higher and higher and also went to someone that seemed to have the same taste as me and had often outbid me. I had expected to win it and have my doll wearing it! At least with this doll there will be another one available. You should of course post a wanted in the market place and expect a long wait.

I have learned to not get attached, to know I might not win to try not to get into the whole visualizing it as mine before I win. The why them? feeling is jealousy and it stings, just know its just a feeling it will die down and go away after a good tantrum sounds like its already on the way to a sure death. It also sounds like you had allot of emotions going on all at the same time even more powerful.

For myself I am a collector and an artist, meaning I see and appreciate them as art and an emotional outlet and self expression also a hobby. I don't think collector means investor! for me I have quite a few hypermaniacs the early ones it took 5 years to slowly gather them years of waiting for the one doll I wanted to appear. They are not an investment that will gain value. I use the term collection to mean gathering together nothing to do with money.

Real INVESTORS are normally more scalpers who buy dolls that can be quickly bought then sold they tend to pay the Original price from the company such as volks dolpas and grab NEW LIMITED dolls and hope the supply will be much less than the demand so they can make a good profit. Volks is a great target for this as they nearly aways don't make enough and the demand increases.

 

I am also a doll hobbyist/enthusiast.

I think all the important points have been addressed.

I just want to point out the assumption that the final winner in an auction for a rare doll is an "investor" is not really true. A true investor is a person who can spot a good deal, buy it and sell it for higher. The higher the winning bid is the less the possible "profit" becomes. Thus whenever something goes over $3000 I really doubt that the person is buying the doll for investment value (now I am talking about BJD strictly - there are many many other collector dolls which can go higher or worth more - however I am addressing just the current BJD market) I have my own share of high bids/wins off YJ and I can assure you that NONE of those dolls will ever sell for as high as I had paid for them. Even if I get the exact amount as what I had paid, it is not a sensible investment since I made 0 profit. I do better putting it in the bank with mere 2% annual interest (at least that is something vs zero)

 

I completely agree. As both a life long collector AND artist, I don't consider the two to be mutually exclusive. Nor do I define a collector as someone who's into investment. As a collector I simply enjoy the objects I get, some of them are useful, others are purely decorative, some expensive, others cheap. And I honestly think that I enjoy them more by also being an artist as I can appreciate the work & creativity that went into making these beautiful objects.

In truth, most of the collectors I know, especially in the doll world, are also artists of some type whether or not they would define themselves as such. The level of creativity they show in their dolls, whether it's painting, sewing or simply choosing clothing & wigs & making interesting displays, is amazing. I think that rather than being mutually exclusive the artist & collector go hand in hand.

Being a collector has little to do with investment. Of course there are some folks who do collect as investment but that's not true of most. They simply appreciate whatever they collect & like to surround themselves with beauty. They are also very curious people who often study the objects of their desire & have a great deal of interesting knowledge. Very few expect to make a profit on their collections. Sure they will sell some things but it's generally to make room & upgrade the collection.

On the other hand, if you're a professional artist, you do expect to make a living from your work. Does that make you less creative or "artsy" if you make money from your art?

This is almost exactly the opposite way you seem to define collectors & artists. Being both, I find no incongruity between them. I made my living as an artist but also did pieces simply for the fun of them & to express something within myself. Being a collector, I've seldom made a profit when I sell & upgrade my collections but I also find my collections to be expressions of myself. They display my interests in a visual form as much as my art does.

 

Interesting...... I'm an Artsy fartsy dolly collector....I collect dolls just for "the dolls" not as an investment ( I invest my money in other things)...... If I miss out on a dolly item in an auction it's just "c'est la vie"...I don't get too emotionally attached....I'll wait for the next opportunity to come along...I have to win eventually

xen

 

I'd classify myself as both.

I am a writer and I use dolls as three dimensional representations of my favourite characters. However, I'm also a collector in the sense that I always want more of them. However, in order to get a new doll I need to be able to create a proper character to suit them.

That said, I have also bought some limited dolls which I will never mod because they are limiteds. But those dolls still have distinct characters.

That's why I am MNF-less, I love them all, but they do not fit into the 1/3 scale world I have created.

That was long and rambling, but I hope it made some sort of sense to someone.

 

katyok: your dream doll is available here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320468296694&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

 

Looks like its had some modifications but they don't say what to the head. Also not on a hound body like the original auction she lost. I am guessing the hound body will be very hard to find. But this doll is not one I have watched as I have no interest in him just guessing based of it being the grail doll for some.

 

I have to say and I know that it has been debated before, but anyone who "invests" in dolls must be a little teeney bit just thinking that way to excuse overspending delusional. Although they do hold their value, much better than the car I just traded in lolz.

 

Right Stella of course when we buy we don't expect a loss and sometimes you make a TINY profit or sometimes lets face it a small loss. For me it seems to balance out of time. There are much better investments once you have been in this hobby a while you learn the truth of this especially now the market is so flooded with new dolls appearing every day from companies. I always think well if we don't get on I can sell her I am sure thats echo'd throughout this board, sell for a profit NO but for the same or paid or a bit less.

 

I am definitely both, I am an artist in the sense that there is a creative drive behind my collection, I love creating the persona inside the doll, however I am also a collector, collecting what I view as the perfect set of dolls to represent my vision. I do not collect haphazardly, to have LEs to have "company sets" or anything like that (though there is that temptation to go on a holy grail mission to get all the Soom Monthlies) I collect for me, according to my stories and tastes, so my collecting is also based on my artistry. I do not feel that the two need to clash

 

As someone who self-identifies very strongly as a Collector, I have to take some issue with the way the OP characterizes those of us who don't regard ourselves as "artists".

My dolls... though they are, absolutely and without question, a "collection"... aren't investment pieces. I didn't buy them with an eye towards future gains, or even with the idea of ever reselling them at all, and they're much more than simple commodities. Though I doubt I invest quite as much emotion into them as the OP (I've never lost sleep over losing an auction, even for a sculpt I adored-), I do play the character game, and I do get very attached to both those characters and their resin avatars. I doubt anyone who's ever seen the way I fuss over Teacup or Al or Harumatsu would call me a "cold-hearted investor". It's ridiculous how fond I am of those guys.

And yet... I'm still a collector. My dolls are beautiful objects that I like to tinker with and look at. They're not my muses, my best friends or my "kids". (I have cats and the world's most opinionated canary for that. ) They're my possessions. I bought them because I found them beautiful, and because I wanted complete "sets" from the sculptors I liked.

So be careful with your stereotypes, Katyok. Doll owners aren't as easily classified as you seem to think, and the difference between the artsy-types and the collector-types isn't always as cut and dried as all that. I'm sure there are artists in the hobby who don't invest a huge chunk of themselves into a doll's character or story. By the same token, I'm also sure there are collectors who do.

 

Without reading the whole many posts and the initial one when it comes down to artist or collector I am clearly both b/c...

Collector - I don't look to things as their resale value but collect them because i like them. I also don't collect for sheer numbers or because I can get ahold of the next great Limited doll. I like to say "I have "x" amount of dolls" or say "I've been collecting since...". I feel an accomplishment when I get something for my collection that I want and I like to hold on to that thing to feel like i've accomplished my goal. To compare I am the same way with books. I practically hold on to all of them unless I didn't like the book or never finished the series. Just they same way it gives me that happy feeling when I've looked at what I have accomplished.

Artist - Ok so far I haven't done any faceups but I plan to. Like others here i am an artist who was formally taught. I have an B.A. Animation degree and to get that I have had to take formal art classes, design, photography, just to name a few. So as someone who is an artist I certianly have an appreciation for the dolls, the way they look, and how they can be used artistically. I love taking pictures of my doll and using the techniques I have learned in photography classes with my doll in place. I had also picked up sewing, which is clearly an art, before I even order my first doll so I saw the doll as another means to improve and enjoy this art for as well.

So yeah i'd say i'm pretty much both. I think I do lean more towards artist than collector as a whole though.

 

I don't see a necessity for the "or". I'm an artist by trade and temperament; I also have a number of collections, some more incredibly random than others.

Some of my dolls were bought to eventually become much loved characters that have lived in my head for ages. Others? Inspired new ones -- they didn't have one before, thus they're more 'part of the collection' than they were entities unto themselves before money changed hands.

One of the ones I wanted for 'the collection' had no concept at all save for 'another weirdo for the shelf of weirdos', and became a character pretty much in an instant for what has to be the most deeply random reason ever, though he's been the victim of my artistic efforts for the past two days. Not something planned for at all -- simply something that happened.

Things become one or the other -- or both -- in a fairly fluid fashion in my house. The best laid plans almost never end up how they were, well, planned.

 

I like to think of myself as an artist. I could never imagine collecting dolls that depict characters made by other people. I'm trying to learn the art of doll creation because there is no way i can find most of my characters already available in a doll form.
So yes, i'm more on the artist side.

 

To me, a collector is someone who actively looks for more of something and purchases it. Most people do tend to collect or amass something, even if its just shoes or mags or jars. I don't understand the looking down or stigma in it. Collecting is fun.

To the OP, how do you know that the buyer of the Bermann was a cold hearted investor or reseller for profit? I have seen the auction and all the bidders are listed privately. I am at a loss to see where you are getting your information. Please explain.

 

i like to believe that i'm both, when i first found out about bjd i was uh.. 16? then i knew i could never afford it so i started sculpting my own and made 26(ish) attempts before i saved up enough money for the first one! but i may have been able to afford the doll i couldn't afford it much at all (eyes and a pair of sneakers) i painted his face (countless times) and i sewed and sewed and sewed until my stuff was sale worthy, so i became a semesters and and now my face ups look like company quality at first glance

because i made attempts at making dolls i can sculpt well and i understand how they are made i am really hoping to become a doll maker like you wanted to >x< i am young and i stay with my parents who are both artists and they eagerly egg me on to make money with my art instead of getting a desk job, i am very lucky, even if our money situation is quite tight art always comes first C:

i find even if i started making my own i wouldn't stop buying dolls, each sculptor has his own style and they are just so nice!

 

While I do not consider myself an artist, at least not in terms of dolls, I do not think the two are mutually exclusive. For example, I definitely the modifier or someone who does faceups to be an artist, but I, personally, do neither, I just collect them so I'm just a collector for now.