Real Bodies and the ABJD Aesthetic

1. I don't know enough about making functional dolls to know. I suppose the shape of the body would effect it's balance, but I have a feeling that the body types are largely for aesthetic purposes.

2. Weather or not they would go in a different category would probably depend on exactly how much the aesthetics differed--there's a whole range of looks and body types there. I think it would be interesting to see some older dolls, but I don't know what the marketability would be for something like that.

3. I'm sure that some people do, but it's going to vary from person to person. I personally don't--at least not the way implied by the thread. I have two pretty girl dolls, and I actually find that girl dolls make me appreciate being a woman more and they don't make me feel bad or like they're something I have to live up to. They remind me of the inherent beauty in all women, even though they themselves are more idealized. It's hard to put into words, because it's sort of the opposite of how a lot of women seem to view unrealistically beautiful dolls.

If people try to live up to their dolls image or seriously compare themselves to their dolls, that could get unhealthy since it's a lot easier for a resin person to look perfect than a real person (though what perfect is, depends on personal view point). Just putting a doll in clothes that you wouldn't necessarily where yourself doesn't have to be unhealthy--I dress my girls either very punky, or whacky cute, two things I can't get away with so well, since my employer wouldn't be to happy if I walked into work that way.

4. They are neither. It's comparing apples and oranges to me. Dolls are beautiful and they can reflect an aesthetic ideal. However, I think there is great charm in the differences and imperfections in our own bodies. I'm attracted to both men and women whose features aren't "perfect"--I find them more visually interesting.

When it comes to bjds I tend to gravitate towards either the heavily stylized anime-type sculpts that don't look anything like real people anyway, or realistic sculpts that aren't perfect--my Unidoll 06 has a large rather aquiline nose that I think is fabulous, for example.

 

1. Is the slim, realistically uncommon physique, favored by the vast majority of ABJD molds, more for aesthetics or for functionality? I guess I'd agree with Taco on this one. They are more about the art than if the dolls function correctly (does that make sense? lol)

2. Is there room within the ABJD aesthetic for a wider range of body types, including older or less idealized physiques? Or would such dolls belong in another category altogether? If dolls with less idealized physiques do belong in another category, is that purely adherence to the "BJD Aesthetic", or a disturbing rejection of real bodies and the people who inhabit them? I again agree with Taco that marketability is also something to consider. "Is this going to sell?" As much as a variety and "fairness" among body types would be ideal, the rest of society might not find any taste in that. We live in a wrecked society anyways, we look up to outer beauty and dolls were made to have that ideal appearance.

3. Do some people experience feelings of self worth, physical appeal, popularity, etc. vicariously through their dolls? How might this be healthy? How might this be unhealthy?

Example: A person who creates beautiful dresses and sexy lingerie for their dolls, but considers their own body too imperfect to warrant the same adornment.

I don't think people constantly think that "oh, I am too fat I can't model these clothes, but my doll can b/c she/he's perfect." There are those that purely like the dolls because they can create art with them (clothes, makeup, etc.). I think it's more like having something to extend your talent with. (lols I dress my doll all cool and stuff, the only reason why I can't is b/c of parents XDDD; ) Besides, I think it's natural that we envy the perfect body, whether or not it's dolls, celebrities, anime characters, etc. It's a normal human feeling. But really, as long as you take care of yourself, then you shouldn't hate your body ^^.

4. Are dolls inherently more or less perfect than the living human body? Why or why not? Tangentially, can a doll be too real? Is it the realism, or lack thereof, that draws you to BJDs?

Well the things about dolls is that they combine reality with unreality. Dolls' purpose is to be very artistic and unreal, but still exist in that resin shell.

 

I think there's room in the ABJD aesthetic for different body types. There are so many different kinds of heads, so why not different bodies? I somehow doubt it will happen, though.

I'm not going to comment on why companies make their dolls slim and unrealistic, since I'm honestly not sure. But on a personal level, I prefer them that way. Sometimes it is a bit much (like if a doll has such long limbs that they look alien!), but in general I like it. Most dolls seem like idealistic little people. It isn't just dolls that I prefer this way, I also enjoy looking at two dimensional art that features people who have rather... unnaturally perfect bodies, faces, hair, etc. *shrug* I know I'm not the only one who likes looking at impossible perfection XD Maybe I'm just fascinated by it, since it can't really exist in life... well what I mean is, since the perfect human doesn't exist, I'll take what I can get (a representation of the perfect human).

 

1.Is the slim, realistically uncommon physique, favored by the vast majority of ABJD molds, more for aesthetics or for functionality?

Um, I like the heads more than the bodies, as I think bodies can be easily changed. I like the more realistic physique, but in the real world I have seen some really slim people so I wouldn’t pass up a doll with a slim physique just for that reason!

2. Is there room within the ABJD aesthetic for a wider range of body types, including older or less idealized physiques? Or would such dolls belong in another category altogether? If dolls with less idealized physiques do belong in another category, is that purely adherence to the "BJD Aesthetic", or a disturbing rejection of real bodies and the people who inhabit them?

I believe that one day some great artist will rise and make bodies with different sizes. I think, as long as the aesthetics holds up—it should be considered a BJD. There are a lot of dolls I see that don’t meet the un written “BJD Aesthetic”; slowly I think that list is growing and allowing for more ideas to brew and because of that we will have more variety.

3. Do some people experience feelings of self worth, physical appeal, popularity, etc. vicariously through their dolls? How might this be healthy? How might this be unhealthy? Example: A person who creates beautiful dresses and sexy lingerie for their dolls, but considers their own body too imperfect to warrant the same adornment.

I think on a subliminal level we all look at our dolls and see ourselves in them. If you are a person with low self esteem, then it can be a bad thing because you will idolize a being that is meant to be “perfect”, in the sense of what we artists think are perfect. It can traumatize the mind and make it gear towards un healthy goals. On the flip side, it can raise one’s self worth in being connected to a doll that you think is like you---and when you dress it pretty and give it pretty make up it can boost your spirit and make you feel as if you can look just the same.


4. Are dolls inherently more or less perfect than the living human body? Why or why not?
I don’t find dolls perfect in the sense that I want to think positively of myself. If I thought they were perfect then I would have to think of myself as unperfect. I find them as a positive role model for some people who connect with a certain doll that has some sense of realism to the owner because it could potentially make that owner feel better. Does that make sense?

Tangentially, can a doll be too real? Is it the realism, or lack thereof, that draws you to BJDs?

I think it’s just their beauty in a world free from rules that draws me to them. I can do whatever I want with my dolls and the “souls” I give to them allows “them” to just enjoy life. I think most of us have a hard time being free and enjoying life and I think that is why we are drawn to objects or games or anything opposite to our reality with such fondness…

These are all my opinions though…

 

1. Is the slim, realistically uncommon physique, favored by the vast majority of ABJD molds, more for aesthetics or for functionality?
I think more for aesthetics.

2. Is there room within the ABJD aesthetic for a wider range of body types, including older or less idealized physiques? Or would such dolls belong in another category altogether? If dolls with less idealized physiques do belong in another category, is that purely adherence to the "BJD Aesthetic", or a disturbing rejection of real bodies and the people who inhabit them?

In the 'artist abjd' section of this site, there was someone who is sculpting/sculpted a plus-size doll. She's a lot larger than any doll currently on the market, but the body still fit into the abjd aesthetic. I think it's actually the head, and not the body, that determines whether or not a doll is abjd style. For example, the tiny dolls Uyoo, Metal, etc. have bodies that remind me of barbie dolls or pullips-- such tiny hands and feet. But they are jointed, and their faces are clearly asian bjd style. However, the goodreau dolls that were discussed awhile ago were the exact opposite. Their bodies looked like any other abjd body, but their heads were distinctly more american doll style. (Not American Girl Doll, just american dolls in general.) Because of this, they were classified as not asian-style bjds. So I think even if a doll had a larger or oddly proportioned body, if it had an abjd-style head, it would fit with the abjd aesthetic.

3. Do some people experience feelings of self worth, physical appeal, popularity, etc. vicariously through their dolls? How might this be healthy? How might this be unhealthy?

I'm sure some people do, but I don't think it's unhealthy. If someone likes your possessions or creations, it makes you feel good. You feel proud of having something that other people admire. If it goes too far though, like where you only get those feelings from your doll and never from yourself, it could be unhealthy...

4. Are dolls inherently more or less perfect than the living human body? Why or why not?

In my opinion, I think they are more perfect. I wish all humans looked like dolls because I love beautiful things, and I happen to find the tall and slim proportions of abjds more beautiful than normal human proportions.

Tangentially, can a doll be too real? Is it the realism, or lack thereof, that draws you to BJDs?

If it's an abjd, then yes, it can be too real. the minimee maker only offers up to... 80% realism. I think beyond that, it wouldn't resemble an abjd.

 

1. Is the slim, realistically uncommon physique, favored by the vast majority of ABJD molds, more for aesthetics or for functionality?

I prefer my girls not to be that super skinny'd figure. one of my favorite girls really has no figure at all. I'd say though based on what I have seen some of the more slender legs found on the female bodies I think is more for function / ease of posing. Though I think it can depend on the skill of the artist too, on how the joints are done. But I also think many of the dolls that are slim, or uncommon may be more of what they may consider a 'ideal figure'.

2. Is there room within the ABJD aesthetic for a wider range of body types, including older or less idealized physiques? Or would such dolls belong in another category altogether? If dolls with less idealized physiques do belong in another category, is that purely adherence to the "BJD Aesthetic", or a disturbing rejection of real bodies and the people who inhabit them?

I think there is plenty of room for a variety of figures. reflecting various forms of natural figures. I think what is considered 'ideal' varies depending on the person looking. I do not think they would belong in a seperate category at all. It's just variety. I think if the doll bodies where more realistic, and was then put into another category away from the so called 'ideal', it would be quite offensive to people that have that body type.

3. Do some people experience feelings of self worth, physical appeal, popularity, etc. vicariously through their dolls? How might this be healthy? How might this be unhealthy?

I think this would just be a common case of low self esteem towards them selves. If the start comparing them selves to a doll, or anyone else. I don't think it's that healthy at all. It can lead to all sorts of other issues / problems. I've heard of way to many girls that think that way, and they are not doll owners either. When they take care of them selves, and be happy with them selves. Then it's ok.

4. Are dolls inherently more or less perfect than the living human body? Why or why not? Tangentially, can a doll be too real? Is it the realism, or lack thereof, that draws you to BJDs?

I would say that typically dolls are less perfect than a real person. Since they are a doll, a creation made to resemble a person. Personally I am much more interested in the realistic dolls.

 

1. I happen to resemble that "unrealistic" physique and so do many of the women around me on a daily basis. The male dolls, now...different story, but still I think calling it "unrealistic" alienates those of us with slender genes. Also, consider the general body type in the Asian countries where our dolls are made. In all seriousness the slenderness of dolls is probably functional.

2. I would enjoy seeing that done. There is a wonderful full-figured woman doll currently being made by an artist on the board...there should be more of her. And as long as they have ball-joint systems...they should be BJDs.

3. I would guess so. I sort of have it in that one of my dolls is way more popular than me. But I find that incredibly amusing and it doesn't affect my esteem either way, as it means I meet more people because they beeline for my dolly, lol. I can see how it would do these things in a less secure person, though. I'm fairly sure some people DO sort of live vicariously through their dolls. I haven't taken enough socio/psych courses to give you a full answer on the healthy/unhealthy question.

4. Less perfect. We can kneel without our knees looking hideous and seeming to come apart at the joint, for example. I have seen dolls that, when photographed, look eerily like humans...but I'm not sure what you mean by "too" real. And there's nothing about realism either way that draws me to them. They're dolls and they're fun. I really try not to analyze it...

 

The bodies themselves are often very realistic to me. It is their faces which tend most towards the totally impossible, or stylized. Though I think that Saint and Bernard can look very much like a real person in the face. But their bodies are far too long to be real. I like the bodies that look more natural than the stylized ones.

 

They all look like "real" bodies. There's a distinct difference between "real" and "common". But for me, I see the "common" every day (and in America, the common is often overly ample). Why would I then want to create more of the boring commonality I see every day in what I play with for fun?

I never like this question. >: I happen to be naturally slender myself, and it's never stopped ME from having body image issues. The girl with the body you think is envious is just as likely to be insecure as you are. I know a gorgeous girl, a MODEL, who is absolutely convinced she's unnattractive and ugly. It's not really helpful to say that bodies like mine, like OpheliaB's, like my friend's aren't "realistic". Unless I'm secretly an android (even then my body would be real) I'm pretty sure in that I have this body, it is "realistic".

 

1. Is the slim, realistically uncommon physique, favored by the vast majority of ABJD molds, more for aesthetics or for functionality?

More for aesthetics I think. Also the slims matures provide an older-looking doll than a flat chested doll. And as for "uncommon physique", I think most slim BJD's look much more like real human bodies than any American adult or teen doll. I think the American ones have impossible physique. I like that BJD's are more realistic in shape.

2. Is there room within the ABJD aesthetic for a wider range of body types, including older or less idealized physiques? Or would such dolls belong in another category altogether? If dolls with less idealized physiques do belong in another category, is that purely adherence to the "BJD Aesthetic", or a disturbing rejection of real bodies and the people who inhabit them?

If you mean the criteria for DoA, that would be a decision of the mods. So far I think bodies need to look like existing Asian BJD proportions. If you mean in general, I don't know. I can certainly imagine a pleasantly plump mature female, and I have seen people remove limbs or scar dolls. But I don't think I would buy (for example) an old lady BJD with flat breasts and wrinkles, but maybe someone would for a story character. We get a lot of weird dolls in tinies though!

3. Do some people experience feelings of self worth, physical appeal, popularity, etc. vicariously through their dolls? How might this be healthy? How might this be unhealthy? Example: A person who creates beautiful dresses and sexy lingerie for their dolls, but considers their own body too imperfect to warrant the same adornment.

Yes, some of my dolls are like a surrogate younger me. I am too old to wear those clothes - it would look ridiculous. I also don't like to dress up myself. I wear jeans and a T-shirt. I see nothing wrong in getting vicarious pleasure in dressing dolls nicely.

4. Are dolls inherently more or less perfect than the living human body? Why or why not? Tangentially, can a doll be too real? Is it the realism, or lack thereof, that draws you to BJDs?

Yes they are less perfect - they have many many fewer points of articulation, they cannot change their expression with one face, they are cold and hard, cannot talk, are not alive. I do think some dolls can be too real - I am turned off by overt sexual features I have seen like soft breasts (dollfie but somebody was looking for a soft breast BJD), retractable nipples (yes one make BJD has them), interchangeable flaccid and erect boy parts (yes one BJD has them), etc. But it is definitely realism that attracts me to BJD's. They have a realism even when they are odd non-human fantasy characters. They are wonderful works of art that look alive.

Carolyn

 

1. Is the slim, realistically uncommon physique, favored by the vast majority of ABJD molds, more for aesthetics or for functionality?

I think for both, probably most for aesthetics, however slimmer does tend to be more posable (Examples of the limitation on posability for thicker dolls can
be seen in the Tiny sizes, example the Happy doll toddler and the pocket fairies VS the Slimmer Tinies.

2. Is there room within the ABJD aesthetic for a wider range of body types, including older or less idealized physiques? Or would such dolls belong in another category altogether? If dolls with less idealized physiques do belong in another category, is that purely adherence to the "BJD Aesthetic", or a disturbing rejection of real bodies and the people who inhabit them?

An older doll might have appeal to some, in the 1950s there were some dolls portraying older adults such as "mother of the bride" and grannykins, and people bought them, they may not be as popular as the younger looking dolls but no doubt a mature ABJD would have a good following.

Plus sized dolls I have no clue, but noting again the variation of thicknesses accepted in tinies they would prbably still fit in the BJD aesthetic as long as they can keep posability. Even in the bigger dolls are some variation in ranges from the thicker flatter SD10 to dolls like Lishe, so whats one more body type?.



3. Do some people experience feelings of self worth, physical appeal, popularity, etc. vicariously through their dolls? How might this be healthy? How might this be unhealthy?

I suppose that could happen. My dolls can dress in frilly things, even wear pink, stuff I would never wear. My doll is my doll, I am me, maybe its different for some people, but I dont't know a lot of ABJD people in person.

4. Are dolls inherently more or less perfect than the living human body? Why or why not? Tangentially, can a doll be too real? Is it the realism, or lack thereof, that draws you to BJDs?

Its both, realisim and fantasy, the range of motion and shape is closer to real than Most non ABJD, but I like the fantasy aspect too, having cat girls, and elves with huge eyes and pointy noses.

I suppose a doll could be too real.. the squishy boobs on some obitsus
are bordering on that for me...

 

1. Is the slim, realistically uncommon physique, favored by the vast majority of ABJD molds, more for aesthetics or for functionality?

Is slim really realistically uncommon? o_O But I think it's a bit of both; slim is beautiful, and that's what sells; and the less resin used, the better for balance [and the better on us owners when carrying! XD].

2. Is there room within the ABJD aesthetic for a wider range of body types, including older or less idealized physiques? Or would such dolls belong in another category altogether? If dolls with less idealized physiques do belong in another category, is that purely adherence to the "BJD Aesthetic", or a disturbing rejection of real bodies and the people who inhabit them?

I personally find the majority of female BJD bodies too skinny to be 'ideal', actually. There need to be more full-figured girls!! And I don't think there are any 'BJD aesthetics', besides, well, the ball joints. And the strings, etc. In terms of sculpting, if there can be cat heads, I don't see why there can't be more muscular arms, less six-packs, etc. ^^

3. Do some people experience feelings of self worth, physical appeal, popularity, etc. vicariously through their dolls? How might this be healthy? How might this be unhealthy?

Personally, no; I can wear anything my dolls wear without problem. It's just that it's a lot more fun to dress them up. XD Plus, having a doll in a long pink wig and a frilly dress [for example only; my boys would never wear that XD] is a lot easier to explain away than wearing that yourself, especially if you don't really like attracting too much attention.

Then again, wouldn't the doll attract attention...? Hmm.

4. Are dolls inherently more or less perfect than the living human body? Why or why not? Tangentially, can a doll be too real? Is it the realism, or lack thereof, that draws you to BJDs?

The kind of perfection demanded of a doll and of a human are very different; a perfect doll would be, for example, one without chips or air bubbles etc, whereas a perfect human... well, maybe someone healthy and happy? So I don't think a doll can be more or less perfect than a human. ^^

As for what draws me to BJD, I think it's the fact that I can play with them, and that they're a lot more sizeable than regular dolls, which makes dressing so much more fun. So in a way, yes, it's the realism that draws me to them. =D

 

Actually, when it comes to the traits you mentioned here, there seems to be a quite a bit of variation. I've seen some girls with larger hands, and head size varies from company to company--sometimes even within the company itself (Chiwoo has a much larger head than Yder, for example, and the Souldoll heads are smaller than heads by some of the other companies while AR has melon heads ) While CP and Obitsus are very leggy, Volks, Souldoll and Unidoll are not.

I think the headsize and leggyness that does appear is for aesthetic purposes. If you're going to stylize a body, extra long legs look nice, but if you go the other way into stumpyness--not so good, and the larger heads can be seen as cute. I actually like the softness in the girls and some of the boys (depends on the character I want the body for), but I tend to not be as attracted to lots of muscles.

 

I would LOVE to see more of a variety of body types. If I wanted everybody to be thin and "perfect," (by fashion industry standards, NOT by my own,) I'd have remained a Barbie collector.

I want my dolls to look like real people, and I think a wide variety of different shaped bodies are beautiful.

 

There is, also, the rather practical application of having dolls that are all of 'similar' build. That is that at $100+ per decent outfit, having to fit a wide variety of shapes would be a hardship on many people.

 

Huzzah! I'm a strong believer in 'dressing appropriately', and what's appropriate for a 15 year old girl hanging out with her friends (or a BJD) may not be appropriate for a 36 year old businesswoman.

For instance, I really like lolita clothes although I would never wear such myself because

1. I am not the appropriate body type
(most brand lolita clothes are 1 size only and I haven't been that size since I was like 10 years old.

2. I am not the appropriate age
(something that is perfectly adorable on a younger girl may not be appropriate for a woman approaching middle-age)

3. There is no place for me to wear them
(hanging out with much younger people tends to make me feel rather awkward because even though we have something in common, there's a lot more we don't have in common)

Please note that I'm not saying that if you're a 40 year old woman who likes wearing lolita clothes then there's something wrong with you... only that it's not something that I personally would feel comfortable doing.

So, I dress my dollies in the clothes that I think are pretty for them, even though I wouldn't consider them appropriate for my age/size/position. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

H

 

Thats a good point I hadn't thought of. A lot of companies do make bodies that are compatable with other companies, and a large range of sizes would make that difficult.