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Recasting a company's doll in unavailable resin

Nov 10, 2007

    1. This came up in another part of the forum and I thought it would make an interesting debate.

      Lets say that your dream doll is an F-16 by Volks in a lovely transluscent blue resin to be your aqua-man. Volks does not offer any doll in blue, so if you bought an F-16, made a mold of it, which would probably destroy or at least definitely not be good for the original, and recast it all yourself in the perfect shade of blue, and never sold either the original (if it wasn't destroyed) nor the recast, is it ok?

      So this is a doll for personal use only with no possibility of sale.
       
    2. To be honest, I don't really think it's okay, no. I don't think the original would be destroyed by the casting process, and how many of us could truly say that in dire financial straits, we would not sell that 'extra' doll. I think there's a difference between a 'dream doll' and a 'dream' doll. If someone's absolute favourite mould was an F-16, above all others, that is a 'dream doll'.

      However, that doll in translucent blue is a doll than can exist only in their dreams: a 'dream' doll. If the person has the will to completely recast a doll, then I say that they should try and sculpt one themselves, with a face aesthetic similar to that of an F-16, if they love it so much.

      EDIT: However, thinking about it, considering I don't know a lot about recasting resin, if the original was completely and irrevocably destroyed and thrown away, then I would have less of an issue about it than if the person kept both dolls.
       
    3. I wanted a green Unoa, so I had her dyed green. If I wanted a doll in a different color I'd opt for some form of dying/painting rather than re-casting (I don't think re-casted dolls are even allowed here?).

      Even though it's for personal use... I kind of feel like when you buy a BJD, even though it's your personal property to do with it whatever you want... >x< the whole idea behind it was to customize that particular hunk of resin into your dream...
       
    4. I think...

      If you recast a doll just for yourself nobody can tell you nothing,just as you can copy a dvd for personal use, usually you get in trouble with the law when you copy something covered by copyright to sell it for profit.

      So as long you do it just for your artistic purposes there is nothing wrong IMO.
       
    5. If you recast a Volks doll, it's unlikely that the quality of casting would be as good. The resulting pieces would be smaller and not fit together as nicely. I can't imagine how a doll like that could ever be anybody's dream doll.
       
      • x 1
    6. I think this is a less of an issue because of the difficulty of actually recasting the doll without ending up with a ruined doll and a not very good mold, plus the difficulty of getting a perfect different coloured resin mixture.

      However, I personally think if you're going to recast a doll and not sell it, it's not morally wrong. But the doll definitely must not be sold and I suspect that it might not be allowed to be posted on forums as well. While I think it's not morally wrong, I also think it would very quickly lead to morally wrong situations. The temptation to sell the doll would be rather high (especially if it is somehow produced well).

      In other words, I don't personally think it's wrong but I don't think it's a good idea either. Dyeing the doll would be a much better way to go about it.
       
    7. I agree :) As long as you aren't making a profit, I don't think it's a problem.
       
    8. I think it is quite humorous when people just opt out and say “well, make it yourself!!”. If that was indeed possible, no one would buy BJDs in the first place!!! ART is a talent that needs to be trained to a certain level to be considered acceptable; in other words, I can draw, but I am not a very good at sculpting. It may takes me years to achieve the level of quality that some sculptures have already achieved and maybe I don’t want to wait that long to get my “dream doll”.

      I’ve thought about recasting a doll, only because it was not available in the color I wanted. There is nothing wrong with it as long as you DON’T sell it, it is for personal use and can be used however you wanted. I don’t think the temptation to sell is that high; if I have to go through all the trouble to re-cast something in my likeness then I will be greedy and keep it all to myself!!

      I have thought about dying the doll I wanted too, and when I sat there and really thought I realized that that was not the best option for me. I want “permanent skin”, I am not going to change my mind and make my doll a rainbow doll—although if I ever did I would definitely just use dye! And then when you go to do the face-up, the dyed skin is removed with it.

      I am not going to re-recast said doll that I was going to previously. I am not sure if it will be able to get the dream doll I want in the skin color I want since there is such a limited variety. And I know that different resin color is difficult to make, but that doesn’t mean it is not wanted. {Obviously, if people are dying it, then there is a market for them!}
       
    9. Perhaps that is your way of thinking. But I'm quite certain that there will also be people who when asked by many people if they're willing to sell the recast doll of a different colour for a certain large amount of money, they will be very much tempted. For you, you want to be greedy and have the doll to yourself. But there is greed for money as well. Plus, plenty of people have went through times where they swore they would be penniless before they sold their 'dream' doll only to sell it under some personal circumstance. It's really become quite a common occurrence in this hobby.
       
    10. But there are no qualms in re-selling a doll. Or even selling a modded doll, which is no longer original and can be marked up.

      It is morally wrong {to sell a recasted doll} and legally wrong, and if someone was to sell it they should be banned and the original company should be notified.
       
    11. The blue skin thing was simply an example. It could be as simple as...the doll you like is from a company that does not use white skin, or I remember someone lamenting once that they wanted a pale Aaron who at the time was only available in a dark dark resin.

      Considering the sheer difficulty of recasting the doll in the first place, and the expense, it would definitely not be any savings of money.

      Thankfully for me...my dream doll is one I already have, but I don't think that anyone should have to keep a doll only in their dreams. If niether doll were ever sold, I don't see anything wrong with it. Its personal use. And I really do think the original would be seriously messed up, but I've never cast anything except for a shell in plaster of paris in the 3rd grade. :D
       
    12. I don't think it'd be a wise choice. First of all, materials and equipment needed to do the recasting in resin that has comparable quality to the original are NOT cheap in the least. Second, if you were not well-practiced at it, there would be flaws, mistakes, bad resin, all sorts of bad things - leading you to waste resin and spend more to get supplies to replace those you messed up. Third, it's simply too much effort to go through to make just ONE doll. All your molds, extra resin, etc would be useless. Incredibly expensive waste.

      There are some dolls that will not be made. When you think of something like, "Oh, I want a hot pink El!" you need to know that a) it will not be made and b) there are far easier, safer, less expensive methods of achieving what you want.

      On the side of morals and ethics... recasting shouldn't be an option. Someone put a lot of hard work into casting your doll. Appreciate it.

      So.. to sum it up, in my view: it is expensive and wasteful to recast when there's alternative methods to achieving the effect.
       
    13. I don't think it's wrong providing you never make any kind of profit from either doll. Once you've bought a doll it's yours to do with what you will, and recasting a doll in an unavailable colour for your own personal use doesn't affect the company in any way. They aren't losing money or their good reputation, and you aren't making money unfairly from their work. No one is hurt, one person is made very happy.
       
    14. I think lots of people on this forum will go ballistic at the idea of making a mold of a commercially available doll. If I were to do such a thing (can you imagine a blue Bermann?), I don't think I would be able to post photos or probably even mention his existance without getting deluged with hate mail and possibly lawsuits from "Mr. Dollshe". Part of the fun of having these dolls is being able to share them online and with friends at doll meetups, so it would not be worth it to me to have the doll of my dreams under these circumstances. I do see your point, however, and would LOVE having lots of clones of my Bermann in various colors. I just think it would be an impossible situation as well as possibly illegal.
       
    15. I don't know what to think. I made a bit of a mold of Xavier's face to try and make a sleep version of him, it came out so-so and I haven't done anything with it beyond a plaster test. Now I'm leaning towards getting a different head tht looks enough like a sleeping version of him.

      Making them to sell is definately out. If you have enough skill to cast do you think you would have enough to make your own doll?
       
    16. I say do what you will... but it IS not the original doll so I don't think it should be posted on any forums and whatnot.

      Since I don't think thats allowed...
       
    17. I think this is a really interesting question. Everyone on the forum always says "it's your doll, do what you want with it." But how far will the community allow that to go. I think legally you are allowed to make as many copies of something as long as you dont sell it. Like if you buy a designer dress, and want to take it apart, make a pattern and make it in lots of colors for yourself- that is ok. So why isnt it ok to do it with a doll.

      Obviously it would be very expensive to do this with a doll, but if you had all the money in the world, and had the talent to make the doll in blue, or to take a french resin doll and make it in regular urethane- why not?

      People do wasteful things with their money everyday, so I dont really think that is an issue. I defintiely think their are plenty of talented amateurs in the hobby, with the ability to make a good mold and very good replica. How many hobbyist turned professional doll makers do we have out there. (I think most of these people are interested in making their own dolls though)
      So I dont see the point in arguing that you are going to get a flawed copy. Again it is a question of resources. If you wanted to you could mold your doll again and again until you got it right. Also from what I understand about molding- you could probably make a mold of the doll with something harmless to the doll, make a rough cast, perfect that rough cast and then use silicone, on that rough cast.
      I have thought about doing this to make different arms and legs or torsos my dolls. I dont want to do extreme mods on my doll, but I love options- high heeled feet- cyborg arms and legs. I do think though for me it is not worth the negative feedback I would get from the community. Because if i did make any molds that people became aware of I am sure I would get hate mail.
       
    18. I do have to wonder, if the dolls were never to be sold and were purely for personal pleasure why would there be such negative feedback? (you know, if they were ever shared on this forum?)
       
    19. Well, yes, that's the ideal case isn't it? Unfortunately, sales transactions don't have to be carried out in public and legalities haven't always stopped people from doing something anyway. I'm not saying that woah-ho, such recasted dolls of different colours will definitely be sold off. I'm just saying that if someone does do it, there's going to be a temptation to sell if there's demand and that it would be naive to expect people not to be tempted at all.
       
    20. In those examples, the legal, licensed base of the doll is still intact. The company has been paid for their work, and you have merely altered it to make it your own -- at the designer's encouragement, no less, since this is a hobby about customization.

      Since, as far as I know, re-molding a doll doesn't destroy the original, and creates a totally new doll from someone else's design, it's not quite the same thing. Recasting a doll to make more of them != customizing, in my book. Customizing would be dying or painting the doll to make it the color you wish.