Recasts and Bootlegging

I didn't like that last line I wrote, so I went back to make it less angry sounding, because my intent was not to sound hostile towards you. I also might've read your post wrong a little.

However, I think in this case (where there's more at stake) it not only helps to accept the person, but you also need to inform them of what their choices can do so that they don't end up doing something that will cause a lot of pain later on.

 

I'm against recasts and bootlegs. I think the whole practice is immoral, and frankly the arguments some people put out there in support of recasts/bootlegs just boggles my mind. The childish sense of entitlement is astounding. And that, I think, is the root of the problem -- there seems to be a rather large sense of entitlement floating around out there, as though simply wanting an expensive or limited edition doll means the person who wants to have it deserves to have it. Which is utterly ridiculous and absolutely not the case at all. This is an expensive luxury hobby. We're not talking about life necessities like food or shelter. We're talking about hunks of plastic (really beautiful hunks of plastic but still) that we buy with our extra money. I'm quite sure that nobody has yet died or suffered unduly from not being able to buy a $2000/LE doll. No, it's not fun. Yes, it can be quite unpleasant and cause sadness. But mature people with morals suck it up, deal with it, and move on to something else. They don't turn to immoral and illegal or potentially illegal means to satisfy themselves.

As for the whole "but people download pirated movies/music" argument, well...if you have to justify your immoral behavior with other immoral behavior, something is clearly wrong.

 

I have to wonder if paperwork is being bootlegged as well? I am lucky enough to have the original boxes for all of my dolls (save for one head) as well as paperwork (though, funny enough, my favorite doll does not have paperwork, just her original box). I know that, personally, I just make sure the doll has one or the other and check the seller's feedback. I also prefer to buy full-set if it's ever offered by the company, even if I never use the clothes and wigs. But I do have a few non-full set dolls because they do have boxes/paperwork.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm not paranoid about buying a bootlegged doll secondhand because I have requirements I need met when buying anyways. I like paperwork not just for authenticity, but it is sometimes very pretty (such as Volks's papers). I mean, I think it's a little ridiculous to have to keep everything from a purchase, especially if you bought second hand then resell the doll. Why should we have to live in fear for something a minority does? Or maybe I'm just too naive to think that only a handful of people would even consider buying a bootleg.

For me, most of the fun is searching for the "rare" doll and then the excitement of finally finding it and getting it. Even if it takes months of work, there is something all too satisfying about knowing you have that doll you wanted and you EARNED it. There is also a certain amount of pride with owning a doll from the company you love. At least, I think there is. It's amazing to feel like you're contributing to a company's success and are a true fan of them, then you meet other fans of the same sculpts and you all get excited about buying dolls/owning dolls because you hope they'll release more of your favorites!

Bootlegs stops that sort of progress. I couldn't blame a company for refusing to make more dolls if people keep buying illegal copies just like I couldn't blame a music artist for refusing to release music until sharing of their songs stops. I can understand how people would justify arguments for buying bootlegs, even if I don't support or agree with them. "I would never buy the doll from the company anyways, so it's not hurting them." or "It was a limited and they no longer sell it, so it's not hurting them." Well, financially maybe not. There is truth that if you never will/can buy something from the company... it isn't directly impacting them financially because they never had you as a customer in the first place, but you are hurting the people who buy the real thing- not only by creating distrust in the community but you may be hindering progress and future releases of dolls by the company. Having ones ideas blatantly stolen is sickening. To prove a point, there are a lot of music artists I no longer support due to copying from others, so it's not simply this issue of dolls.

However, I think the degree of copying has to be obvious and definitely not a case of "this body/these lips/this style is similar to x doll by x company". With bootlegs, it IS obvious that they are gaining profit off of someone else's work. And what's worse, to me, are the people who knowingly buy these dolls and try to resell them for a higher price. I admit, I really despise the idea of buying a bootleg simply because of the disrespect to the people who put in the real effort to make the doll. I do not approve of supporting this at all, and I would be heartbroken to learn someone I considered a friend participating in this. All respect I had for them would be gone (assuming they have their bootleg knowingly- I would not fault them if they had a bootleg, found out, and then were upset because it was an unintentional buy. I wouldn't wish that on anyone).

I think that the repercussions in this hobby for buying a bootleg is enough to keep most people who would even think about it keep from doing it. I mean, even people who have innocently purchased something that's a fake are often ridiculed. Risking isolation from people who are your friends, being blacklisted from selling dolls, being banned from forums where most of the people in the hobby chat? I mean, we do have our own type of policing, even if people try to get around it.

Also, thank you, babytarragon for the link! It was nice to hear from a company's standpoint. I agree, I can't believe people think that these small teams of artists are giant corporations...

 

From what I know some come with paperwork and or certificates of authenticity. The paperwork can vary from very detailed and like the original to crude photocopies. Headplates have also been copied in past DOA threads. I forget where exactly I saw them but I recall it.

None of my dolls really came with any of those things (except one certificate with my Impl) so I doubt this is universal for all companies.

 

I have two friends who sculpt toys and figures who have had their work stolen and recast by Chinese artists. One of them is in a lawsuit against the company that decided it would be a great idea to market the recasts in America. So yeah, I can't say I'm a fan of recasting.

But at the same time I don't want to see everyone go so nuts with paranoia that they stop enjoying the hobby or mistrusting all of the secondary market-place. If you leave the hobby because of anger over recasts, you're one less person to buy legit primary dolls.

I also hope this fandom never gets to the point of paranoia where we start attacking photos of dolls without proof that they are a recast, or yanking hands out of sockets at meets to check for S-hooks. If you're buying a doll and something doesn't feel right, then you're in line to ask politely. But it'd be way out of line if someone started pulling wigs off Volks dolls to make sure they all had the headplate, for example.

Sure, we all say no one is out to start a witch hunt, but this is an issue people feel REALLY STRONGLY about on both sides, and sometimes that can make even the best person irrational.

 

I'm all for taking the middle ground when it's appropriate...

What I would like to ask you is what reason, about this specific situation (bootlegging dolls), makes you feel that taking the course you describe (which is more indicative of indifference or simply unwillingness to act, IMO) is the appropriate course, despite everything else that has been discussed in this thread?

A lot of people don't feel like this is a situation where the middle ground is appropriate. No, the people who buy bootlegs are not the spawn of Satan, or whatever. They shouldn't be openly harassed. But it's perfectly OK to say "I don't trust you" and I would rather not talk/buy dolls/etc. from you because I know you deal in shady things.

 

This may have already been asked or brought up but I don't know the answer. How do you tell if you're buying a bootleg? I mean, what are the warning signs other than lower quality materials?

 

Duskkodesh; Thanks for that info! Sad to know that even paperwork can be fraudulent. I knew that head-plates had been copied before, so I don't rely on them to determine legitimate dolls. But, like I said, I'm not going to be paranoid about it. I've bought dolls without paperwork/boxes that were legitimate before, the former owner just didn't keep the items. I mean, it's possible to come across a recast when you don't buy directly from the company... but really, I don't want to let what a few people do distract me from enjoying the hobby. I'm not going to grow paranoid and second-guess my buying decisions because of a lot of what-ifs. If a sell seems shady or something doesn't quite add up... I'm not going to buy it. It won't protect me 100%, but what else can I do aside from deciding not to ever purchase second hand again and lose out on my chance to buy real, authentic dolls from people who are selling them for "insert reason here". It's not fair to the majority of people who buy and sell legally.

Also, I want to say that I can understand why you choose the middle road. I don't, personally, want to get involved in all of this drama. I'm not going to personally seek out recasts and berate people for having them. I may lose respect and trust for them if I discover the fact, but I don't think harassment or automatically deciding the person is the spawn of evil is the answer, either. However, I can say that I wouldn't be so passive to see someone selling their bootleg as the original because that is a different crime with a different set of responses, in my opinion.

DeadLegato; I loved your response. I agree 100%. I don't think we should start a witch-hunt and allow the enjoyment of the hobby to diminish because of some people making bad choices. However, I don't necessarily think awareness of bootlegs is a bad thing if it protects people... but it shouldn't become an obsession.

 

Why would anyone be willing to deliberately spend MONEY on a recast that has no value? Complaining that the doll was too expensive or rare and then throwing money away on a fake!?

I'm wondering if the people that are attracted to the recasts/bootlegs are more into the illicit act of buying something controversial/immoral than just the dolls themselves. They are getting some form of 'payoff' -like anonymous vandalism.

I'm an artist, and I put a lot of my life into each piece I create. Years spent learning, practicing, and developing new skills. For someone to steal it and brag about doing so, is just contemptible! Without the Artist, there would have never been something to copy or steal from in the first place!

 

Oh, I agree, Pinksugar! Educating people on what to look for is what I think the most reasonable solution is. Knowledge is power. But there are a lot of people arguing "Those darn recasters will just use it to make their dolls better fakes!"

 

I think they're kind of terrible. Reasoning why?

Okay, I understand that you don't have that much money and would like to get a doll cheap. Wouldn't it be great if all BJDs were cheap; then we'd probably all have like twenty of them or something. ^^;;;

However, you shouldn't result to buying a recast. (1) , who knows what materials they are made out of. It can be toxic materials for all you know. (2), if you save up a bit more, you can just buy the real thing. (3), you are not buying from the company whom the sculpt originates from, so they do not get the money for the work that they did. Somewhere, someone actually sculpted the body and the face. It's a real shame when they don't get the money for the wonderful sculpt job they did. A sum of work /does/ go into sculpting. I mean I'd be pretty upset if someone just photocopied some pictures I drew and sold them.

This is just me anyway. ^^;;;;

 

Ye gods that annoys me so much. It's purposefully keeping yourself ignorant! I've gotten to the point of stalking to recast tumblr and forum just to keep myself informed, which I feel is something I shouldn't need to do in the first place. =/

 

Well as I've stated I have family who traffic in a certain kind of shady things and friends who do the same. I think the more people you're exposed to in your life that do something illegal or immoral the easier it is to gauge their behavior. I know people that download music but then buy it if they like it, and I know people that just download everything. There are people who recreationally use drugs and their are those who deal. In short there's a spectrum and I can't assume that a group of people who share one behavior have anything else in common (that's be like assuming all legitimate doll owners behave alike). As for the talking/buying/dealing with recast owners I do agree that a site like DOA where it strictly says "no bootlegs" means that if you have some you honor the sites rules and only post them elsewhere. If you agree to a TOS and then break it you should get booted because you lied. If a site says no bunny hats and you wear one, same thing. Byebye.

As for my path I generally am live and let live if the action brings no physical harm to one's self or others. Destroys no property, etc (each situation is a judgement call but I've been an active part of the dowloading debate long enough to know there's always two sides to a story). From what I have seen it's still a debate but I feel the other side of the argument isn't really free to explain their side. If we had a balanced debate where both sides could voice their opinion without fear of persecution I would love that. I love information of all types, for both sides. That's just how I am I want to learn EVERYTHING. XD

 

To bring up a popular tumblr meme, "What is the difference between tumblr and a restaurant?"

The restaurant has servers that work.

 

I don't know if I'd be willing to go into what other things they might be doing in addition to buying a bootleg; the only way we'd ever be able to realize that is to do a study and see if bootleggers would rationalize certain behaviors as more positive than non-bootleg buyers.

I also wouldn't want a bootleg because, like you said, it's not the real thing. One of my dolls is next to me, and I think to myself: if my doll were to be a bootleg copy, no matter how much I treated her like the real thing, she could never be the real thing. Fortunately, my doll was bought from the company, so I don't have to worry if my doll is fake or not.

Even if someone bought a very close look-a-like to a BJD they wanted, called it a BJD, and did all the things we'd do with our dolls - they still don't have a BJD. They still don't have that doll. What they do have is an imitation; a close look-a-like, but something that can never be the real deal.

 

Myth #1: You'll never know what the recast is made of/what you are buying, and it may be toxic!

Fact: All resin is toxic, just ask the customisers. Bootleggers on Taobao, which is like China's version of Ebay, are rated and receive feedback, so you can find out what the quality at particular shops are like, making it not all that difficult to know what you are buying. The usual ebay things happen, of course, sock puppet reviewers, sock puppet feedbacks, stealing other people's auction photos, but still, there is some way to know what you are buying.

Myth #2: Bootleggers want to create perfect replicas of dolls so that they can pretend to be Volks/Soom/Luts/Iplehouse and sell their dolls at full price and gain ungodly profits off theft.

Fact: Bootleggers sell to the bootleg market, where it is generally understood that close-enough is enough. Their target market is primary domestic (many shops don't even ship overseas), and the Chinese are used to the idea of bootlegs being generally of bootleg quality, so there's no benefit to bootleggers trying to strive for perfection, especially in terms of internal construction.

Warning: If more overseas customers, who are more exacting in their demands, start buying from these domestic manufacturers, this may change, because they are always quick to exploit business opportunities. This should be prevented, if possible, but it seems that domestic sales are still much higher than foreign sales, due to existence of the recast taboo (which is good, let's keep it that way, shall we?)

Myth #3: Bootleggers are trying to undermine the doll industry by producing cheap knock-offs for sale to doll owners.

Fact: Bootleggers are catering to a perceived need in their own country (China), where the average salary is low enough that a real doll from Korea or Japan would easily take from a quarter to half the average person's annual salary. For these people, a recast is already an expensive luxury. Yes, it is illegal, and yes, it is still technically possible for them to save up for years and years to buy the original, but it is somewhat cruel, don't you think, to want to deprive doll lovers of a chance to enjoy a face they would probably never ever be able to afford due to the difference in living standards?

And before anyone rushes to point it out, yes, there are many Chinese doll owners who can more than afford to buy originals, and many of them do. China is a big country, so big that a 'minority population' can still be many times the size of my entire country, but it doesn't change the fact that the average annual income is still pretty low.

I would say, though, for someone living in a developed nation, there really is no excuse.

 

I know that I, for one, would be devastated if I found out one of my dolls wasn't the real thing. I would always resent it and probably throw it out or give it to a kid (who probably would end up destroying it in the long run, but hey..) and try to find the legitimate doll because the excitement for this hobby, for me, comes in the form of the treasure hunt. I just love searching for THAT doll and the excitement that comes with getting it, even if I'm paying a larger price due to rarity. I expect it with this hobby and came into it knowing full and well the expenses I would be undertaking. But some people don't care for authenticity so much as just "having it."

I really don't think that people who buy the recasts really know the harm they are causing, and if they do know, they just don't think about how deeply it affects the doll community as a whole and some are probably selfish and don't care.

Ignorance is extremely harmful, especially in this case. Judging from the tumblr when I browsed it earlier, people seem to think "a big corporation isn't missing out. I'm not REALLY committing a crime." or "It was a limited the company doesn't make anymore, what's the big deal?" So, I disagree. I don't think most people buying bootlegs would fit under an umbrella, especially not ones who do it for the thrill. The worst crime they probably commit in is downloading music and movies, which is still a crime nonetheless. There may be some, well, there probably are some. There are scammers everywhere- but I would highly doubt it's the rule just based on those sorts of comments.

Really, again, just from comments and such... people are trying to buy bootlegs of hard to find or limited molds. That's probably why you see Soom up there a lot- also on the tumblr, I found a post mentioning how they'd missed an ordering period and wanted to find it because of that, indicating at least to me that they probably would have bought the doll from the company and may just not want to pay scalpers prices. Granted, what some people don't realize is that if you really want a doll and you are patient and dedicated to the search, you CAN find even that super rare, elusive doll up for a fair price (meaning, what the company valued it as or close to that range).

I'm in no way defending their actions. But... I think it's unfair to place a pretty big assumption onto one group of people, even those who have committed a crime.

ETA: leXis, thank you for your post! I found it extremely informative. I had to admit that I was curious about the majority of the bootleg market population. Although I still can't condone recasts, it does make a little more sense based on who they're trying to cater to. I agree that in developed nations... there really isn't an excuse.

 

I did a quick search on "BJD recast Tumblr" and found one; not sure if it was discussed or not.

The owner is answering questions about bootleg dolls, sellers, etc. As I read down the list of Q&A going on, I came upon someone saying that scalping/bootlegging is bad and why the blogger would like to support it.

The answer to that was left blank.