Recasts and Bootlegging

Amen to the bafflement. And the harm. And the rampant ignorance. It's more of that "trying to make a victimless crime" mitigative reasoning, to soothe the criminal conscience-- "I would never rip off a single hardworking artist, but those companies are big and make zillions of dollars so that's OK". They seem to think that if a company is large and/or successful, its creative products are fair game for bootlegging or theft. And if it's fair game, then there's no victim; and if it's a victimless crime, then the thief is now able to sleep soundly at night.

But size doesn't even matter in the first place. I work for a little game-studio that's owned by a corporate media giant, which loses millions of dollars per year on content theft... games, films, TV, all of it... including the stuff that I make. Our daddy-corporation is able to budget for the losses, the way a huge store budgets for shoplifting losses; but someday, what if even they can't do that anymore? Even the biggest bazillionaire behemoth corporation has as much right not to be victims of theft as any one-person doll studio.... And I don't just say so because my job depends on it!

 

leXis: Yes. Exactly. Replicas usually happen for a reason. For designer coats and lolita dresses, for example, I know people buy those also because the brand won't fit their body.

Interestingly enough, in the Gundam model building hobby, they have a subforum entirely dedicated to replicas and discussing them. I don't actually know how that works, since I'm not active in the forums, though. XD

 

I definitely have the unpopular opinion here in saying that I don't see recasts as such a huge problem as everyone makes it out to be. Keep in mind, this is coming from a person who often holds the unpopular opinion. The way I see it, bootlegs exist in every domain (clothes, music, movies, etc) and the main issue that people seem to have with BJD bootlegs is that the companies being stolen from are smaller. But in my opinion, the moral issue is not the impact, but the intention. I honestly feel more guilty about buying bootleg movies just to save a few dollars than buying a doll or part I would not be able to buy anywhere else. See, I'm only OK with buying recasts if there is a legitimate reason associated. Recasts can be beneficial in more ways than just saving a couple bucks. If you want spare parts, that the original company doesn't sell, for example, then a recaster can save you and your customizing plans. The same goes for if you want a resin tone that isn't sold by the original company. And even discontinued dolls that are nearly impossible to find on the second-hand market are OK in my books. That being said, I am completely 100% against selling recasts. Maybe you can call me a hypocrite, but if my dream doll is only easily available as a recast, then I am going for it! If no one is ever going to interact with the doll but me, then I see no moral issue. But buying a bootleg doll and then selling it second-hand is completely immoral, especially if you mark it as the original.

TL;DR : recasts are okay in my unpopular opinion, if it is for the right reasons and only stays with you.

 

There's never a good/legitimate/right reason to recast or to buy recasts. You want spare parts the company doesn't sell? Either contact the company and ask if you can special order them or put up a WTB thread and get legitimate ones from another owner. People make frankendollies all the time and sell off hands, feet, forearms, calves, and every other conceivable part. Want the doll in a resin tone that the company doesn't sell? Buy a legitimate company doll and dye it or paint it (or, maybe, politely ask the company about a custom order). Don't want to do those things? Suck it up and accept that you can't always get what you want. I don't give a ruddy damn about "intentions", your selfishness is not justification for buying a bootleg product. "I want X in Y colour", "I want X number of part Z", "I want X doll from Y company that was only produced in Z number, which is not coming up on the market". None of those are actually "good" reasons to recast. "I want X, so I should have it through any means necessary" is a ridiculously overly entitled attitude.

"The company isn't losing money because they weren't making X thing anyway" doesn't cut it, either. Maybe Company B was about to release Doll A in skintone X and you and ten others buying a fake one in that as-yet-unavailable skintone just tanked those plans. Those hands you got from a bootlegger are exactly what Company Z were about to announce. Why should they bother now? Maybe they're not making a certain thing now, but buying fakes can essentially guarantee that they never do. Why on earth should a legitimate company waste time making something if some brat with an overdeveloped sense of entitlement has decided that zie can't wait for the real thing and goes to a bootlegger to get what they want? Zie's not getting what zie really wants, anyway, only an imitation of it. Having a recast purple Akando is not the same thing as having a purple Akando from Iplehouse. Even if you "get what you want", you're not actually getting what you want.

 

I don't see how any of the justifications you have cited, DeliBagel, are "legitimate reasons."

There are dolls that I have wished were in a different skintone. I wrote to the artist and asked for it. Sometimes I was turned down, sometimes the company made one in that color just for me.
Rare dolls come up for sale as trends shift and collectors move on.
If I needed spare parts, I bought a second whole doll. If something was broken and I couldn't get parts, I fixed it.

As far as I can tell, buying a recast is just lazy and impatient.

 

Luckily, I've a lot of experience having the unpopular opinion, so I'm hardly offended by your responses. I'd just like to reiterate that this is solely my opinion, and I feel I am entitled to it. I don't appreciate my pov being called selfish, lazy and impatient. However I won't deny my humanity and say that I'm not these things.

I just wish that someone could refute my position in a way that was level-headed enough to persuade me.

 

DeliBagel, you have me confused. What about 'recasting is theft and purchasing a recast is endorsing and enabling theft' isn't enough to refute your position?

 

I'm pretty sure the whole thread's already done that a dozen times over. You are entitled to your opinion, no one said otherwise but that doesn't mean anyone has to agree with it or dance around what they think are poor justifications for stealing from someone.

 

Tez That's a valid point, and I can't argue with that. It is inarguably illegal, and therefore there is inarguably a level of immorality to it.
However, there are many other arguments against recasts, and I was mostly reffering to those suggestions; that it's wrong because it's cheap, easy, fake and dangerous.
Perhaps I don't have a very strong sense of morality and justice, since like I said, I often find myself holding the unpopular opinion, and I do engage in illegal activities (free music, for example) without thinking twice about it. However, I still stand by my opinion that if it's only for you, and it doesn't physically harm anyone, then it's fine. (Putting aside the fact that it's illegal, just mean in terms of ethics.) To put it into a very bad analogy ( I never claimed to be a good debater) there is a distinct moral difference between selling drugs, buying drugs, and using drugs, even if all three acts are illegal.

River I never asked anyone to agree with me. I know nobody will. BUT my point was that I have yet to be convinced.

 

DeliBagel -- fine, I'll go after another point.

I'm going to approach one point specifically -- and that's the idea that 'if my dream doll is only easily available as a recast, then you bet I'll buy it for my own enjoyment'. The problem here -- other than the whole theft issue, which ought to go without saying at this point since everyone else has said it loud and crystal clear -- is that it won't be your dream doll. It'll be a pale imitation of the real thing. You could be putting that money toward searching for the actual doll, and get the one you really want instead of some poor facsimile. I have two grail dolls. One of them I can find if I'm okay with waiting for it and paying somewhat inflated prices, but it's not impossible. There's one on the MP right now, as a matter of fact. The other damn well IS impossible, because she's been discontinued for a while and wasn't hugely popular to start with. I haven't seen one on the MP in at LEAST two years. I would never in a million years entertain the idea of purchasing a recast of either doll, because it wouldn't be the doll I want. Frankly, the hunt is part of the allure; it's like a treasure hunt with a vague map, where you know exactly what the treasure is and roughly how to find it, but you never know when you might stumble over the gold mine. But regardless, you won't actually be getting what you want.

At any rate, no doll, no matter how rare or limited, is worth engaging in illegal activity to get. Given the choice between hunting forever for the doll head I want or purchasing a recast, I will take the hunt -- because then I will know exactly what I'm getting, I know it's exactly what I want, and I can purchase with a clear conscience because I neither endorsed or committed any illegal activity.

 

Congrats on usually having the unpopular opinion, but I'm not so sure that causing offense is the point of this thread.

Yes, the intention may be a moral issue, but so is the action. I believe that people are free to do whatever they wish with their money, but that being said, I am not encouraging the purchase of recasts, and I am vehemently opposed to selling recasts as the legitimate item. I don't think that your POV is selfish/lazy/impatient, but I find it dishonest. If I could buy a recast of my dream doll, I wouldn't, because it's a recast--not the doll.

I'm not here to convince you, or anyone for that matter. I like Machiavelli's idea of "the ends justify the means" very much myself, but to say that there is no conceivable problem with buying recasts as long as there is a good reason is to neglect the relativity of what a "good reason" is.

 

The only way I could buy the argument that a doll was only for you and wasn't harming anyone, would be if owning that doll also didn't involve anyone else. As in, I liked that doll so much I made one from scratch in my own home and then didn't post it anywhere on the Internet or show it to anyone and then was buried with it. That would be a copy that didn't harm anyone. But since this is even more work than asking another artist for a rerelease or patiently waiting for a secondhand doll, I don't see this happening.

 

If it's someone's dream doll, they might really just do it. It might cost more than the secondhand market, but they might still do it. It might be a lot more work than anything else, but they might still do it. I mean, it's a dream doll, after all, and if people are willing to find cheap ways out, wouldn't there also be people who will go the full distance in the opposite direction? I'd find it strange, because, if you're gonna invest all that effort, why not just make something a bit more original, rather than doing a copy, but then again, some people just love it that much. /shrug

I have my own reasons for not supporting recasts, but it does make me wonder. For those who are vehemently against recasts on legal/moral grounds, how many of them download music and movies or games, and how do they reconcile it with their stance on IP theft re: dolls?

Why is it that someone who buys a recast is lazy/immoral/a thief/an animal but someone who downloads music/movies and gets sued is an innocent victim of The Big Corporation? Why does there seem to be very little stigma against music/movie/game IP theft but so much against dolls?

 

L

I don't steal media either. If I can't afford to buy all of the music I like, I listen to it on a streaming radio stationand save money to go to the show when the artist tours. I don't have any hesitation in calling thieves lazy. Lazy=unwilling to work or expend energy. If you are unwilling to work either for the cash to purchase something legit or improve a fixer-upper or make it yourself how does this not fit the definition?

 

Originally Posted by Duskkodesh: "Ah, but I'm not saying that we need to accept illegal activities, just that it is not our job to police such activities. I am prone to positive indifference, that is to say that any activity that people engage in that does not directly infringe on the rights of others takes a backseat to matters of higher priority IE: Theft, murder, rape etc. In other words it's my choice to still associate with some people in my life who do illegal things, so long as they do not hurt others I'm indifferent."
This is a quote from earlier on in the thread, and I think it better voices my pov. I have never been very good at making a point without it being misunderstood, so bear with me. I understand that people have their reasons for doing the illegal and supposedly immoral things they do, and I would never judge anyone based on something so trivial. I think that the main reason for my opinion being so radically different is a difference in philosophy. I am the type of person that believes that morality is relative.
The amount of animosity in this debate is more than a little bit ridiculous. In response to the suggestion that the replica is not the real thing: For some people it simply doesn't matter. Not everyone has the elitist mindset where if it's not real, it's not good enough. I do not own any recasts, but I imagine that if the quality is to my standards, then I would love it just as much as I love my authentic bjds. I own a bootleg copy of Fantastic Mr. Fox, and I own a genuine copy of Spirited Away. Both of these are among my top ten favourite movies, and so both DVDs have equal value in my mind, regardless of if it is authentic. The hypocrites are those that oppose recasts but are fine with illegal movies and music. At least I'm constant with my opinion.
In response to the argument that it is lazy and impatient, or an easy way out. This is a fundamental argument that I disagree with in many different situations, so I already know that most people will argue with me. However, I genuinely cannot understand why one should have to 'suck it up' and deal with not having a doll they want because it is incredibly difficult to obtain, when an alternative is available. ( Again, temporarily put aside the fact that it is illegal.) Not everyone is willing to wait months or even years for a headback or right arm to be on the secondhand market. I don't understand why a sense of entitlement is seen as a sin. Yes, these are luxury items that are not vital to our existence, but what's so wrong with getting something you want when it's not impossible?

Finally: There are much bigger things going on in the world. I am not invested enough in this debate to go into a lot of detail with my beliefs, when I know that most people will simply write it off as repulsive nonsense. I probably won't post anymore after this.

 

Mm, I understand perfectly if you're not the type who steals media. It makes perfect sense to me for you to get up in arms about stealing doll IP if you already have equally strong opinions about other IP rights. People like you are not the people I was addressing in my question, though I guess the quoting makes it look like I was addressing you directly. I am well aware that there are people who do respect all IP rights in this debate. I'm just wondering about those who pick and choose whose rights are 'ok' to infringe on, and whose are not.

 

Well, this thread is good for one thing, sorting out who some of us would like to do business with and not.

 

In one sense, yes this whole issue is an absurd first-world problem: our luxury items are being copied, which upsets the artists who create our luxury items, which in turn threatens our future as consumers of said luxury items, which might force some of us out of the relaxing fantasy world we've created with them. In another sense, these are the handiwork of artists and artisanal guilds who fill a role in a tiny corner of our society that we obviously find compelling. Dolls have been around forever, ABJDs seem like a pretty high-tech new manifestation of a very old idea. Why wouldn't I want to vehemently defend this interesting new phenomenon that affords me so much personal expression? Buying an expensive ABJD is still a selfish impulse, but it simultaneously supports the economic structure of the hobby.

 

Tez, I respect you being so patient about your grail dolls, and I'm in no way suggesting that what you do is unecessary or silly. However, I simply do not think that people willing to buy recasts of their dream dolls should be considered all the negative words I've seen used in this debate ( in this thread and other places.)

JayElleI never meant to suggest that there is nothing wrong with it. I have already said that it's illegal status is undebatable. I just meant something like it's not so terrible as people make it out to be. The main sin is committing an illegal act, but other than that, I think a lot of (but not all) arguments against buying recasts are highly opinionated and elitist views.

ew accidental double post.

 

The one argument against recasts that I don't quite get ( and maybe this is the elitist one?) is the "knowing that it's not the real doll" identical bootleg maybe, but not authorized. But if I think of it as the difference between a signed first edition of my favorite novel versus a paperback with the movie cover, I get it. The content that makes it a work of art is still there, but there is something infinitely cooler about the idea that the original artist actually handled the signed copy. It shortens the distance between artist and collector, even if it's all imaginary, in a way that is clearly valued by many otherwise signed originals wouldn't command higher prices. I think this is what people mean when they say that knowing it was a fake would render it an unacceptable substitute.

Who knows? Maybe the Chinese bootleggers are struggling artists too? Certainly there are several popular doll companies with shady origins that have been swept under the rug now that they've worked hard enough. We can only judge the buyer from here, not the sellers.