Recasts and Bootlegging

I've just read all 16 pages of great points and very apt arguments.
My one question is thus: Why the heck is it called bootlegging?

 

Old term for a stolen copy, it's not a doll-specific term. Have some google.

 

I do know people who are in both the Lolita and the BJD community, and I have talked to them about the differences in recast vs replica. It boils down to a few things:

1. With replicas, most people who purchase them are people who simply will not fit in the brand, such as plus-sized women or people with odd sizing. Replicas fit those people.
2. Most people who make replicas will be INCREDIBLY careful to make sure their replica are not 100% like the original. They might use different lace, or a slightly different pattern, or somewhat different cut and fit.
3. As such, replicas are not like recasts where it's a 3D photocopy (I keep going back to this analogy, but it fits), but rather, for the lack of a better term, a heavily referenced (copied, but not...photocopied) piece. This happens a lot in our clothing market too. Someone made a 300+ dollar purse/shoe/whatever and is selling it at Saks Fifth? Someone will make a $30 equivalent that is VERY SIMILAR (copied, but not photocopied) and sell it at Target.
4. As a result, the brand name really doesn't suffer. The people who FIT in the brand name and wants the actual thing can and WILL buy the brand name. Those who do NOT fit won't, because...they don't fit. Lol. This is why the Lolita community isn't up in arms about replicas (only when someone tries to sell a replica as the real deal). It's a mixture of "I cannot fit in this" and the replica makers going, "I will be somewhat respectful and not make the exact same dress."

Furthermore, people who make replica dresses still do work. They aren't making a magical photocopy of the dress, or even taking the brand's patterns, but making their own pattern and getting their own fabric and lace.

Is it right? Not necessarily, but it is tolerated within the Lolita community, and for a reason.

It is very different with recasts.

Recasts are literally 3D photocopies, with no artistic merit from the recastor. They aren't copying a sculpt in clay first, making minute differences so the sculpt won't be mistaken for the real deal. They're just...photocopying. It's wrong, and...I can't think of a reason why you would want a recast except the "the sculpt is sold out forever and the company destroyed the silicon molds and I refuse to pay a scalper" argument. And even that argument is poor because the end result hurts the artists, and as an artist, it still makes me angry. =/

If I really, really, really like a sculpt I cannot obtain ever (*cough* SDGR Date Masamune, I'm looking at you *cough*) I might sculpt my own similar, but not identical sculpt that will not (never ever ever) be mistaken as the real deal. There will be obvious inspirations, but that'll be it. Or maybe I'll buy a similar sculpt, I'm sure there are plenty.

I will admit, though, that my moral indignation flares up a whole lot more when people buy recasted BASIC, NOT LIMITED dolls (I rage at all those who recast such sculpts. Rageragerage) then when people buy sold-out, never to be released again/company has destroyed the mold sculpts (still ragey, but less rage).

Woooow, wtf. I would have rented the book from Barnes and Nobel or something.

Yeah, I'm an artist too, and it would piss me off to hell and back if someone photocopied one of my prints and then sold it. D:<

 

Certain 'cheap' plastics/resins have different permeability and can actually fall apart and degrade over a period of time, causing things like "sweating" and can have toxic offgassing/seeping issues.

 

I think this has to be one of the major clinchers for me not to get a recast. Established doll makers not only are independent artists (for the most part) that I would like to support, but for goodness' sake, why would I spend any money at all on something that could potential cause illness/toxicity, or 'seep and sweat'. It's a waste no matter what way you choose to look at it in my opinion and I'd never choose to do it. Getting sick from toxic materials to save a few bucks? No thanks. I'm not saving any money if the doll has to be replaced from shoddy materials, and no 'dream doll' is worth owning a potentially harmful material. It baffles me why anyone would take the chance.

I obviously disagree with stealing from artists who work hard etc, but a ton had already been said on the issue, and much more eloquently than I could have done.

 

There are recast owners who pretend that they do sell the real deal. A few months ago a girl from the doll community in my country tried to sell her recast (and she knew it was recast) with a vague description and the comment that she wanted serious bidders only because "people familiar with these dolls know they are expensive". Not only did she try to make the recast look like a legit doll, she tried to sell it for a high price.
There are also too many recast sellers on eBay who pretend they sell original dolls or try to sell them as dolls from their own company.

Perhaps there are recast owners who will never sell a recast as anything other than a recast, but there are recasts dolls that are sold as something else than recasts. That's why people look poorly towards any recast.

 

(I emphasized the bold bit) That part surprised me.

On this thread, there also seems to be some debate about whether the resin is toxic or not... but having someone say that they've experienced the potential of resin going wrong is enlightening and it's also one of the biggest clinchers for me. I didn't know there was a precise way to handle resin, and that mishandling can cause it to seep and sweat. I didn't know some resin could cause an allergic reaction after just touching it. Like you, sticksnstones5, it's hard for me to understand why someone would go out of their way for a bootleg while risking that "have-to-have" doll getting messy and gross over time.

It goes back to what I said earlier in this thread about not really having the doll. I don't know how the bootleg companies function, so I don't know if they have a method of quality control like the legit companies do, but it would be hard for me to see the benefit of going to get a bootleg LE - risking the quality, and possibly my health - while I can be sure that the same, legit LE (though it might have flaws) won't threaten to break down or give me hives.

 

Woah, wait. What's that? You mean the replica creators provide a service the company cannot or will not provide for those the company cannot or will not serve? WELL GEE.

 

Erm. I believe I also pointed out the difference between a recast and a replica in my post too. Lol.

 

You mean that 'service' of getting my item for less then it costs ME to make it, from someone who hasn't made it but that has stole my design and is now turning a profit, forcing me to watch MY art and livelyhood being sold for a bargain to unscrupulous people with entitlement-issues because my life means nothing to them? That service?

 

If it becomes a big problem, companies are likely just to increase of the price of dolls even more in order to account for the losses made from bootlegs. We already see this in the non-doll world. Again it'll just be the legitimate customers paying for the recast buying customers to piggy-back on our purchases.

 

That's not how resin doll manufacture works though. It's not supply-demand. It's demand-supply. The dolls aren't sitting around, already having had money put into them for manufacture and waiting on purchase to gain cost of materials and profit. They are made on demand with the money you pay for them. There are no losses from unsold dolls because dolls don't exist until they are ordered.

The companies are not losing money because the people buying recasts would not have been able to buy their dolls ANYWAY, because they could not afford them or the sculpts were no longer available.

 

You know - and this is not a popular opinion - even if I can't afford them (many of the dolls out there are twice a monthly salary for me right now.. and it seriously looks like I'm not going to be able to make more money than this), it doesn't give me the right to steal, because dolls are not a necessity. You can't compare them to bread, a roof over your head or medical help. It sucks not being able to afford them, when so many others can. But at the same time, I'd also like to have a 1957 Ferarri Testarossa and I don't see that one happening any time soon (unless I buy a 1:6 model).

I do realize that I have been very fortunate to be able to get the dolls I have. I worked hard, didn't allow myself any other luxury and collected penny after penny. It took me a year just to get enough money to buy one, but you are right: you don't need them to enjoy them. Although I would love to get my hands on dozens of sculpts out there, I'm content with looking at pretty pictures.

As for cheating in games: I've heard some people say who are into online gaming that the cheating of fellow gamers has ruined the gaming experience for them. It's no longer about skill and it is terribly frustrating to those who want to stay honest that they are constantly being beaten by someone who just doesn't play fair. Something doesn't have to be illegal to be damaging.

 

Anyone who can afford a 200USD recast can afford a legitimate doll. That that doll isn't good enough for you is not my or anyone's problem, and certainly no excuse for stealing.

 

"I can rationalize spending $1300 on a doll so everyone else should be able to even if that's their entire year's salary and they only want the doll for personal, private reasons such at therapeutic use or modifications without being scared to death of losing all that money"

fix'd

 

But what of the hundreds of hours spent sculpting the doll? What about that? There's a price attached to that too. It boils down to the fact that it is very hurtful to an artist to see their work disrepected so. :/ Contrary to popular belief, art is NOT cheap, lol.

 

Anne Mae- You illustrate my point perfectly. If people on the same side cannot get past these circular debates on whether recasting and bootlegging is an 8.5 or a 9 on the morally reprehensible scale, we don't stand a bloody hope of doing something about the issue at hand and that is what is needed here, SOME ACTION.

I'm going to have to leave this thread alone because nothing is being achieved here beyond in group bickering and that's equally as depressing to me as the recasts and bootlegs.

 

Actually, for many small doll artists this is exactly how it works. Like me, many can't do their own casting, because it's too time consuming and so they turn to a casting company. You have to make them in batches, meaning that the artist will have to invest a lot of money, not knowing if she can ever sell the dolls she is producing. All money that goes to a bootlegger is loss of profit for the artist.

 

No, there are plenty of dolls that cost $200 and are legit dolls. There's even a list here on DoA of dolls that cost $300 or less for easy shopping. There's no reason to steal when you can get legal items for the money you have.
I've seen a recast of a Volks head on a recast Bobobie body being sold for more than what an original Bobobie or ResinSoul doll costs. For less you could have almost the same doll as the recast only then it's 100% legal. I admit a head by Volks looks different than a head by BBB or RS, but why be cheated out of your money if you can get the real deal for less?

 

As a sculptor, painter, jewelry maker, batik artist, and seamstress, that idea doesn't sit well with me. That an artist would create something beautiful and then be SO greedy with it kills me. To say, "Sorry, it's nice that you appreciate the beauty of my work but you're not high-class enough to own it because you can't possibly save up quite that much money with it still being feasible for your income level" just seems greedy and... un-artistic to me. If say, I did a sculpture, and sold it, and the person made a recast of it and sold it for cost of materials and work but minus the cost of my artistry, I'd be sad I couldn't serve the person who wanted it that badly but happy that they enjoyed my work so much that they actively sought out a second option.

Tell me, what does everyone think of replica painters who create duplicates of famous paintings so more than one museum can have them? Both those artists AND the museum collect for such.

Recasters don't do small company dolls. They're mostly big name, hard to attain dolls, like Iplehouse, Volks, and SOOM.