Recasts and Bootlegging

For what it's worth, some of us who were never big on the customization side of things have been around in the hobby for quite awhile (North of six years, in my own case-). There have always been "just collector" types who were fine with full sets, company face-ups and outfits they didn't make themselves.

 

My thoughts exactly.

@Taco: Well said.

 

You don't always have a choice, if that is *the* doll you want. Not all LEs are only limited because of their outfits or makeup; some are limited by sculpt, resin color, bodyparts, etc. If the sculpt is limited, you have to get it from the company during the sales period, OR you have to find it on the secondhand market & be prepared for a markup. Or, for some people, you brandish your sense of entitlement & go buy a recast.

Absolutely. Community outcry, as we're having here, is what helps create a climate in which these activities will find it harder to flourish unopposed. The louder the voice that says NO, the more awareness of the problem is created. Awareness is good. On the other hand, remaining silent & saying "let's not judge the bad guys" spreads a climate of acceptance, which is what allows criminal activity to continue.

The apologists can remain passive and silent all they want, and they can try to make it sound like the rest of us have no right/place to speak up.... nobody's forcing anybody else to become some kind of vigilante or activist. But we don't have to make it easier for them. If a particular crime really hits your angry-spots, you are damn well going to open your mouth about it, and why not?

 

Thank you, this is exactly what a few of us have been feeling and dealing with it. What you said is a great key here.

 

I have seen this and it was kind of what I was referring too, this is an invaluable tool right here to see these kinds of pictures, the weight, all really informative. I would have never known otherwise and it would be so easy to have just sold that fake doll to someone else but she turned a negative into a positive and I believe stopped what could have been an chain of events.

And this is why I'm not judgmental, I want the info, I'm interested in being very informed. I think that the girl who posted those pictures has done many of us a great service, no matter what happens or how she came into that doll.

As for the ecosystem comments, there are invading species in the ecosystem things like the Asian Carp, (Parasites are a natural part of the ecosystem because other things feed on them), invading species are studied and controlled, but once it happens it's really hard to undo. I don't think that you can stop bootleggers, you can be informed, and maybe slow them down a bit, but they have the molds, they sell the dolls. I think it would be so easy to purchase a 2nd hand bootleg doll without even knowing and that is why I would like to see people post links and share differences. One unscrupulous seller who buys bootlegs and sells them as real could keep doing it unchecked over and over.

 

Vonbonbon, I'm sorry for not responding sooner to your post. I'm so glad your head turned out to be the genuine article! And I hope you don't think I was discounting you in any way, as far as what you would chose to do with the head if it did turn out to be a counterfeit.

Taco wrote: Unfortunately, resin can't be recycled -- one of the reasons tan dolls cost so much. An imperfection means the doll just has to be pitched.

Aw, rats.

 

I'm laughing my ass off right now.
Friend of mine send me a screenshot again from the recast forum, and while in the last days I actually thought "Well, we surely won't get any comparison pictures ever if we don't leave these guys a bit alone" I'm just back now to "I won't believe you anything".

Person wants to sell a doll, and gets asked after a few posts if the doll is a recast.
Person's reaction "Ooooh, sorry, I totally forgot to say, tihiii ^^ Yes, it's a recast."
Oh, you forgot?
It's hard that these people expect us to trust them while they are still trying to rip-off each other...honestly, how can you FORGET something like that?
Talking about people giving second chances, in the end you are always the idiot :I

 

And... you missed my point. You said that bootleggers and recast buyers are part of an ecosystem-- an attempt to make it seem as though we should accept bootlegs and recast buyers as a natural (good?) thing. And an attempt to use scientific terminology to borrow authority.

My point (which I backed up with fact) is that neither recasts or invasive species are part of either type of "ecosystem". An invasive species is not part of an ecosystem-- it destroys ecosystems. Just like bootleggers and recasters. And an invasive species must be kept under control if the ecosystem is to survive. By contrast, if you are part of an ecosystem you are in balance with it. By definition, invasive species are not in balance with the ecosystem-- they wouldn't be invasive species if they were (they'd just be plain ol' species). Capisce?

 

A lot of points are being missed during this conversation, like a poorly played game of darts.

 

Damn, you know a thread is cooking when you go to bed and come back to four pages' worth of catchup.

THAT. RIGHT. THERE. When an ecosystem encounters an invasive species, measures are taken to attempt to bring the population of the invasive species under some kind of control. Invasive species are destructive to the balance of an ecosystem; they are anything but an integral part of said ecosystem. Regarding recasts/bootlegs as a form of invasive species into the ecosystem of this hobby is completely accurate -- and some measure should be taken to attempt to control and/or eradicate this invasive species. The sheer amount of public outcry here in this thread is one of those measures.

EDIT:

But I suck at darts! Can we do beanbag tosses instead?

 

I'm just curious.... do you protest the laws that make recasts illegal? Do you think that those laws are unjust? I mean.... I know there have been many laws that were unjust and were protested in the past and have been changed, but I personally DON'T think there's any reason to peaceably protest the illegality of stealing. :\

You can be as indifferent and apathetic as you like about the issue, but don't expect us to support your open armed acceptance of illegal and harmful activities. And why are you comparing criminals to Ghandi? I'm kind of offended.

And this is why I don't support giving recasters/recast buyers asspats and free passes. They are already engaging in an illegal and morally objectionable practice (ie stealing from the artists to save money), what's to stop them doing other things that are illegal and morally objectionable (trying to pass their fakes off as real for more money)? These people aren't good people. By doing what they're doing, they are showing themselves to be unscrupulous and self-centered. Why should we accept them into our community??

 

This is a fascinating thread, and very informative too. It's certainly been a real eye-opener reading through these pages- although I knew recasts, sadly, exist, I had no idea they were such a big problem (and very naively, I didn't think anyone would actually go out looking for one! I just assumed that the people who bought them were scammed. There goes my faith in humanity, again). I wasn't going to post until I'd done a bit of research, but I had a quick look on the internetz and found this:

I hope it's OK to quote that here; I'm interested in people's reactions to it. Personally I think this anonymous recast owner is right to be worried. I wouldn't want to buy anything, even just clothes or whatever, from someone who owned a recast, though I find it hard to articulate why. Perhaps just a general distrust of someone willing to knowingly engage in this kind of theft. Would you be OK with buying things from someone you knew owned a recast?

 

"Anonymous asked: I already own several dolls from different companies and I want to buy a recast doll of a doll I missed out on. I'm concerned about this witch-hunt currently happening on the doll forums, I'm worried that if someone catches me with my recast doll that no one will want to buy things from me ever again, even though I would never sell the recast doll."

I think that this is a good thing. This is EXACTLY what we're going for here! By rejecting anyone who knowingly and purposefully buys recasts, by shutting them out of the community and regarding them with distrust and antipathy, we are discouraging people from buying recasts. That's a good thing! Community backlash is the ONLY weapon we really have against recasters and recast buyers and if some people harken to that and decide NOT to buy a recast, then that can only be good.

 

I would not buy from (or sell to) someone who knowingly purchased recasts. It's partly a matter of distrust, but it's also a way for me to say that what they did is not ok. If they don't want to give their money to buy the real thing, then why should I give my money to them? I don't want to help financially support someone's hobby when that hobby involves stealing from artists.

 

@Harlequin-Elle:
I'm pretty much in the same boat.
The problem is that as a buyer you have only a small amount of options, you either
- trust and be robbed
- trust and everything wents well
or - distrust and better not buy from that seller.

The only 100% safe option is the one not to buy, and that's the problem.
Nowadays certificates and such are worth nothing anymore, especially when bootleg companies start to copy these too.
If someone owns recasts you immediately think "What if the persons sells it? What if they want to sell ME a recast?!", because buying/selling is a HUGE part of the hobby for a lot of people.
And if someone does something like buying a recast and tries to hide it from a lot of people, why shouldn't he try to sell it too?

And honestly?
After ALL the crying of "I would never ever sell a recast without saying a thing" the first person who sells a doll on this recast forum is all "I totally forgot to mention it's a recast, teheee " when being asked about it.
How am I supposed to trust someone from a community where these people have a hard time trusting and being honest to each other o_O?
And if I know I AM watched, how can if FORGET something like that?!

 

I sure as hell wouldn't buy anything from this person, no matter what that thing happened to be. I don't purchase from people who have proven their dishonesty (by any means; words do matter and feedback isn't everything), and since buying a recast endorses theft, that's just about as dishonest as they come.

 

Hhhmmmm, I know it's already been touched upon but Ghandi, MLK and even Lennon, did not just sit around ignoring a problem, they all PROTESTED about huge injustices and they each changed the world in their own way (well, JL's contribution is a bit debatable beyond the realm of music). That is the exact opposite of what was being suggested.

Is there a subsection of Godwin's Law to account for the invocation of Ghandi and Martin Luther King? Or is it an inversion maybe?

Polyhymnia: don't worry,never gave it a thought, I was just recounting my own surprise at my reaction to the possibility that the head was a fake... so relieved it isn't though!

Jenny Nemesis and Brightfires: I didn't mean to sound snobby against those who just want to buy completed dolls, whatever lights your (bright) fires, and of course you are right, a full set, even a limited one can be customised, I'm sure many people do... I just guess I have been pretty blinkered. I come in here and read the threads about doing mods or whatever and the whole Soom Monthly craze was the first time I really was aware of full sets. It's like I just looked up and everything seemed to have changed! I do think that whole marketing campaign of them being released monthly did play a big part in people getting so caught up with them.

I do live in a world of my own most of the time though so I am probably not the best barometer of how the hobby is going

 

This quandary has already come up, and the "hate" in this thread has been cited as a reason why they are becoming less interested in offering this data. Not sure what we are expected to do otherwise, though. Any appearance of promoting and accepting an illegal activity would violate our Terms of Service. And if there's any openly juvenile and personal "I hate you!" kind of crap being said, it isn't being tolerated in this thread.

ETA: re: buying anything else from someone who I knew to have openly purchased a recast? Absolutely not. I wouldn't sell to them either, and I would (politely) tell them why I didn't want their money.

 

Yeah...no. I wouldn't be interested in buying from someone who was known to have bought a recast on purpose (a person who got duped/scammed into buying a recast would be a completely different matter). That person has already exhibited a willingness to engage in immoral, dishonest activity, so what proof do I have that that person wouldn't behave in an immoral, dishonest way with me?

 

Beyond the reasoning of denying any business to this person to support their hobby, I refuse them my business as my means of protesting their unethical behavior and waving my disapproving finger at them. Bad kid, now go to your room! You're grounded! And go throw that thing out before you come downstairs and apologize.

This. Yes, this. Someone who was scammed I can forgive. But, honestly, I'm kind of more forgiving to a greater extend if the scammed victim got rid of the recast doll. Just because they paid money and lost it to a scam-job doesn't excuse continued ownership of what amounts to pirated goods. Yes, I'm hardlined.