Recasts and Bootlegging

This is probably a stupid idea but I wonder if someone could set up a sort of "cabinet of curiostities" of fakes that could then be catalogued so information could be gathered. If there was some sort of "amnesty" for anyone who was duped or scammed (like I thought I might have been earlier!) to send their doll, part whatever to this collection so that we could all share the information...

I've no idea how that could work either, just musing!

 

In theory, it could technically work. But I must ask then what about the dolls that couldn't be provided by people who were duped? I don't think people would be willing to purchase one for the sake of building a database. Also depending on what material the fakes are made of and if they really are toxic that it could be putting said cabinet holder in health dangers?

 

I must ask then; As someone who has a suspected-recast partial-doll, bought in error from a seller whom I trusted, which I have no intention of selling, and which I have mutilated to the point of being unsaleable, but which I keep around so that my floating head isn't rolling around on the shelf; How would the community prefer that I dispose of it?

I, obviously, want to be viewed as an honest buyer and seller, so will do whatever I can do to regain that trust.

 

No. And even though I made a big thread about counterfeit dolls, I never ask anyone to post COMPARISON photos because at the same time we are telling the counterfeiters what they can improve on. In the end you only benefit the bootleggers. So never do that. It's about educating yourself and use your best judgement. I do not even like to answer questions such as is my doll a fake? Did I buy a recast? Because it is not easy to judge and you don't want to make a mistake by telling someone their doll is a fake when it's not.............I mean, we are only looking at their photographs here....................that's not enough. We can only provide information and then let the doll owner do the judging on their own.

And even for Volks dolls headplate is not enough. You can purchase an authentic doll with a wrong headplate if the doll has been sold several times. People do end up reattaching the wrong head-plate back on their doll. It's frustrating.

I was in a chatroom once with a seller who sold a head to a buyer. Then before the seller shipped out the doll, they found out the buyer has bought a recast of Ami Ayase for a very low price less than 30 days ago (by reading her past feedbacks). She decided to ask the buyer about it and the buyer said: oh I was uneducated at that time and it was a mistake. I know better now. However.......everyone in the chatroom did not believe that person (myself included). So the seller backed out of the sale and did not deal with the buyer anymore. She was afraid the buyer would buy her head and then send it to get recasted............and the recaster will then give the buyer another fake doll that looks like the real thing for free. It is a trade-off, believe it or not.

It is hard not to think about these things. We can argue and say maybe the buyer really did make an honest mistake and is trying to correct himself/herself......but all our gut feelings say NO. Don't deal with this buyer. I think if I were the seller I'd do the same too. It's just too uncomfortable.

I am not trying to scare people but I've even heard stories of people sending their heads out for face-up to certain artists, then when they get the head back it has resin residue on it that was not on there before, and later the recast of that head appears. The face-up artist was in on it too because they get something in return....or even money! We can't help but speculate........

 

Does DoA have an already-existing Hall of Shame for known and knowing recast-sellers?

 

No, we don't want to advertise for them at the same time. There are lurkers and members who do want to buy recast here on DOA too. I believe people like that are everywhere (sorry to say that)

I did a lot of screen captures of fake dolls for sale in shops and post them but I always mark out the shops name so I do not end up advertising for them! Everyone should do the same.

 

I would say just hold on to it, unless you really hate it due to the negativity attached to it and just want to chuck it or something. xD I certainly won't discriminate against people who were scammed, and I'm one of those people who are willing to give people (general people) the benefit of the doubt.

Izam: I agree that we don't want to advertise for the sellers, but I believe (and personal opinion here) that it's even more important to educate our general populous. I think posting comparison pictures (USEFUL comparison pictures) would do more good than harm because it would at least point out differences we (general we) can be aware of.

 

I can understand not wanting to advertise scammers, but if I, for instance, don't know who they are, how can I protect myself from falling prey?

I'm not trying to be disingenuous here, but what are the hallmarks of a recast? (Aside from an unreasonably low price for the given item, that is.)

Or does it simply come down to:

Buy from an established company
Buy second-hand from an established member of DoA

 

It is difficult to say what is the best way but, I still do not think it is such a good idea. Because if we do, the comparison photos will never be up to date. Bootleggers will keep adjusting themselves to be better and better and look more authentic than before. That's the last thing we need.

I think in general though the chance of accidentally buying a recast is low..........unless you are really new in the hobby and did not do enough research ^^

 

This is a huge problem, the feeling that one must have an expensive limited doll in order to 'belong to the club'...it is true that the high priced, beautiful face-up, perfect outfit limiteds get a lot of attention.

More than one person has expressed the the view, "but how can you like it, it is fake, you still haven't attained your 'dream doll'" or something to that extent, but for those who care less about having a genuine doll and more for the attention, consider this:

1) you are still not a part of the 'in' crowd, because the 'in' crowd purchased an authentic artist doll. You are in fact a part of the "I would rather spend my money supporting art theft" crowd.

2) if you post your designer imposter doll on this or any other board that bans bootlegs, or gone to a meet representing your designer imposter doll as the genuine article, you are also a part of the "I am a liar" crowd and you have just disrespected every person who paid you a complement as well as everyone who has spent their own hard earned cash to purchase a genuine company doll.

I do not think someone should be surprised when that behavior is met with scorn, I see no reason to not be offended by someone who would lie to my face and who would damage an artist's livelihood for their own gratification. Not allowing that person to participate on this board and denouncing the behavior is a fairly passive response to that kind of insult.

There are some people who will own all of that and continue to dance around on tumblr or wherever chanting about how they fooled everyone but if you do not want to be that person, perhaps you should rethink your decision to buy recasts and consider a future in the hobby that doesn't involve lying and cheating.

...which is precisely why you are a contributing member of, and embody the spirit of this community... there is no 'at the very least' about it.

 

Oh yes, that's true too. On the other hand, some recast comparisons I definitely found useful though. There's a comparison photo on flicker of a recast unoa that I believe was posted a few pages back that I found very informative. For example, the thinner look of the chest piece, and the lack of some detail. It would be something I look for should I ever buy a unoa. Now I'll most likely have an image of a real doll and compare it to a possible doll I want to buy second hand and look for thinner resin or lack of detail.

I'm not supporting comparison photos to go, "LOOK, THIS PART HERE, IT'S DIFFERENT," but more for general things to look out for. xD

 

When people say they won't buy products from recast owners, I imagine they mean those who *knowingly* bought a recast. Certainly none of the ire expressed in this thread has been directed toward those people who made an honest mistake--those people are scam victims too, just like the original sculptors.

 

Ratty, in my opinion, it's up to you, and only you, what you should do with the suspected recast. You were a victim of a scam and I don't feel that you need to 'regain trust' of the community, as you have never lost it. Keep it, toss it, give it away - it's not the community's business dictating what is right in this situation. I have no qualms doing business with a victim of a scam, regardless of what the person chooses to do with the purchase.

As far as a database of recasts, comparison pictures, etc., I feel that it would be a wonderful resource to those who want to avoid being scammed on the secondary market. I also understand why DoA would not want to host such a resource for legal reasons. I do not think that having this information readily available will make more people buy recasts. Those of us who are vehemently against bootlegs will not all of a sudden be 'converted', and those who feel no qualms purchasing one, will do so regardless of such resource. Pretending that recasts do not exist will not make them go away, as we have seen from Tumblr confessions.

I do have a question for those who do not see issues with purchasing recasts knowing that it is against the law to do so. Do you disagree with the international copyright laws that are currently in place? If so, are you actively doing anything about having these laws changed? I feel the legality of recasts is being skirted by many who post on anonymously on the Tumblr blogs by simply providing excuses for participation in illigal activity. I've yet to see someone come out and say "I feel that the copyright laws are unjust. I am taking a stand and doing something about having my voice heard by legislators, so that one day purchasing recasts will be legal".

 

Yes! That is the correct response. You are supposed to be afraid of witch-hunters if you're a witch. You are supposed to feel worried/nervous about breaking the laws & rules your peers abide by, if it's a society/group you wish to be part of in good faith. It means another step towards climate that's too hostile for bootleggers & their supporters to operate unopposed.

I certainly would never buy anything from that person-- knowing that they would knowingly prefer to take the illegal shortcut, rather than go shop the legit secondhand market for the doll they want. His/her worries aren't my problem. Instead, s/he's supporting the abuse of the artists whose works I love. I don't want my money to knowingly go to somebody who'll give it to somebody who'll rip off my favorite artists.

I'm pretty sure Lennon would've said "Nail the wankers".

 

Ratty: You will be viewed as an honest buyer and seller because that's exactly what you are, just because you were a victim of a scam doesn't change that. You spent the money and so it's up to you how you dispose of that fake or what ever else you decide to do with it... beside selling it obviously!

I was thinking the Cabinet of curiosity idea (for want of a better title) could be just virtual btw. People could just send lots of detailed photos and info to the keeper of the database. I guess people could contribute anonymously if they feared harassment.

I understand the argument that making such a website/blog (it would obviously need to be off-DOA) might lead scammers to improve their products but many people have also argued that the actual recasters/bootleggers are upfront about the fact they are fakes when they sell on tobao or wherever - it's those who buy them and then try to pass them off as real who would be annoyed at any such database. I'm not even sure it's a good idea myself, but if we don't know what we are looking for, how will we spot fakes. Remember, an awful lot of people on DOA can never see a BJD irl before they buy.

 

I notice a few people are saying that if someone got ripped off by a scammer, but decided to keep the doll (after pursuing legal recourse in getting their money back, I imagine), they'd still be painted with the same brush as the people who buy recasts on purpose....

I'm not okay with this. I mean, if I bought a doll in good faith and it turned out to be a recast.. I'd try to get my money back first off, but if I still had the doll after all that, I'd still keep it around. Someone here mentioned practicing mods on it, and I think that's what I would do. I'd practice modding on it and render it un-sellable, but at the same time I'd learn how to do cool things to my legit dolls.

That being said, I don't think it's okay to buy a recast for the purpose of practicing mods. I don't think it's okay to buy a recast for any reason. If you want a cheap doll to practice on, there are cheap doll companies and you can buy a small doll from them. :\

 

This! Thank you! There are people who are like, "I want to mod doll x, but I'm afraid I'll mess up, so I'll practice on a recast of doll x!" And I'm sitting here going, "...why not practice on a bobobie which is the same price or cheaper than the recast?!" @_@

 

Absolutely this. I wouldn't even consider chastising someone who was scammed into buying a recast. Mistakes happen. As long as you (general you) don't resale it knowing full well what it is or brandish it around pretending it's 100% authentic, then there's no problem.

If I was scammed myself, I would keep the doll. Whether I'd mod it or not, not sure, but I would feel weird throwing it away simply because, at the end of the day, I STILL paid money for it. It WOULD make me sad to look at it, though. Knowing me, if I kept it intact, I'd have to mark it as a recast and put it out of sight. Otherwise, yes, I'd probably mod it into something less painful to look at. But I would never sale it, display it on DoA, or pretend it was something it wasn't. It just wouldn't be right.

 

If I were you. I would continue to use the body for as long as needed, then I will discard it when it's very old, yellowed, mutilated etc. I won't bother to sell, it's not worth much and could harm others should the buyer be dishonest and sell the clone as real.

 

on tumblr everyone is like "even though what they do is wrong, we should still be nice to those who encourage thieves. it is wrong to go to them to tell them how bad it is to buy bootlegs" (that was rephrased in own words, but you get the point)

what kind of mentality is that? be kind to them so they can feel good about themselves, never feel guilty and keep on stealing from the artists? X__x


also, that mentality of "I must have the preciouss expensives to be loved" is very stupid IMO! the owners I admire the most are the ones who can make a glorydoll, unidoll, bobobie, etc look GORGEOUS! they seriously make me envious!
so instead of just trying to get a doll from a big name, get one that you can afford but still enjoy and develop your faceup&styling skill! THIS is a good way to stand out and be loved for the right reasons!