Recasts and Bootlegging

There is another aspect to the ABJD market that hasn't yet been mentioned as being impacted by the bootleg and recast problem; if a limited doll is available as a knock-off it will decrease the number of buyers clamoring for a re-release. The argument that Soom or Iplehouse or Volks isn't losing money because the doll was limited is patently false. How many times has Williams been re-released now? Would Soom do Special Order Chance releases of their MDs if buyers didn't beg on their BBS? Would there be an iplehouse Eric if Claude hadn't been so wildly popular? No, no there would not. Some people have cynically suggested that this is the companies' way of capitalizing on a popular idea (which was their own idea in the first place) in order to separate us from more of our money, but this is what fuels their ability to pay their artists to spend time experimenting with new ideas.
As an artist it is always disheartening to see my work copied. But I am more disappointed in the person who bought the knock-off than I am in the person who copied my idea. I find it far more insulting that someone would be satisfied by a poor replica than I am by someone who thought I had a good idea. More business-oriented friends of mine have asked in the past why I don't outsource my jewelry to Thailand or something because then I could boost sales, but they are missing the point: that I made each piece myself, that I was thinking about the buyer when I made it, that while I was experimenting I had five more ideas that would never have developed otherwise. The creation of these dolls is an organic process, even if it looks like the artist is churning them out.
When companies have to go to extremes to protect themselves from bootlegging, they can quickly become overwhelmed by the process. DollsheCraft is an excellent example of this: to ensure genuine dolls, Dollshe created their own reproduction center, but they were still operating like an artist's studio because that is all they are, and subsequently fell way behind and angered a lot of buyers. Ultimately, despite some poor business decisions made by an artist, the blame for this can fall on those who copied Dollshe, but no one seems to connect the dots.
The desire to create a highly professional corporate image has come back to bite some artists in the ass, in this case. Iplehouse has a staff of thirty people, and the primary artist is also president. I work for a family-owned business with a staff of forty people and we are a very small fish in a very big sea. We have a corporate ID but that's just for legal protection; it affords us no protection from the vagaries of the economy, or even from shoplifters for that matter. It certainly doesn't get us a volume discount on health insurance!!

 

yes, yes and yes. Did u get into this hobby at gunpoint? no? then work for the things you want or forget about them. No one owns you to fit ur expectations, that things come easy, that money come easy. They do not. All that whimper about costs - you did know before starting this hobby, it is not a secret society with hidden fees.
Its like to get into diamonds jewelry, and start to babble that moissanite cost less "but they just shine as much and pretty too! Why jewelry with real diamonds are sooo expensive???"

 

I believe the recession has hit everyone hard. It is hard to afford luxury items such as the dolls and consequently stores have suffered. I have seen many a doll-related store online fold. Volks closed some branches and Soom even closed a store (I know, citation needed.) And indeed while it is rumor mill, I have heard that Volks isn't doing as well as it could be doing in the resin market, and DDs are carrying them through. Sometimes there is a grain of truth in every rumor.

I will try to word this well, so if I fail, I apologize.
If not financially related, I believe that the acceptance of buying recasts will actually hurt certain countries more. It is already difficult to buy things overseas and if artists, companies, whatever - believe that a certain country is more inclined to buy a copy of the doll, they may be less likely to sell to outsiders.
I believe there is no better way to say to an artist that you appreciate and love their work than by wanting to own a piece of their authentic artwork. When I look at BJD, I see pieces of artwork. When you recast, you just hurt artists, and even though Volks is a "big company" it is still a niche hobby that depends on us, the consumers, to keep them afloat. This hobby isn't mainstream and I don't expect it ever to be, but that highlights one of my fears is that people will go: "why buy the real thing, when I can buy a knockoff and no one can tell?" This has the potential to cause serious damage to this hobby.
Even worse, I fear this may have an affect on the doll sculptors themselves. I fear they will become less inclined to sculpt and share their artwork with us, even legitimate buyers. Even the knockoff people have to admit that they are still dependent upon the main artist to still make the original.

Consumers have changed the BJD market drastically in the last few years. They demanded cheaper alternatives, and many companies rose to the challenge, producing much more affordable dolls. Their competition I believe has been good for the creativity of the market and has led to some very exciting sculpts in the last few years. But knockoffs don't add anything to the hobby. In the end they can say "sure, I am just buying the doll for myself;" but the BJD hobby has been burned by scammers, and badly.
I have no doubt that this will just tempt some people to try to pass them off as the real deal. If people who really desire to own recasts can truly own up to owning them and flushing out those trying to pass their dolls as the real deal, we might find an uneasy truce.

I could never own a fake doll. I give my money to the companies because with my money, I make a vote - I tell them what I love and what I want to see more of. It is every single person who buys a real doll who keeps this hobby going. I have spent what others might call obscene amounts of money on this hobby, and I feel every penny was worth it, even if I had to cut out all other luxuries in my life. Sometimes people would joke on these forums about eating ramen for months on end - and it wasn't really a joke. Our common experiences of saving up and collecting built this community. Even though I haven't made close friends on these forums over these years, I feel that every user on these forums is connected with our love and our dedication to our hobby, and that is heartwarming. We all worked hard to get what we have.

 

Thank you for stating this so clearly. There seems to be a lot of mushy-brained thinking out there (not just in this hobby) that it is somehow wrong to judge, and that people who do so are intolerant. But tolerance is not the same thing as being nonjudgmental. I'll easily tolerate different religions or points of view as long as they don't cause harm to others. But if they do? Heck, yes, I'm going to judge. And that doesn't make me intolerant. Judging and evaluating are key aspects of thinking for oneself. I'm not going to shelve those critical thinking skills because of the fear of hurting the feelings of someone who is doing wrong.

 

Even if people want to try to justify their bootlegs by saying that they're not hurting anyone directly (seeing these companies as nameless, faceless brands), they should at least question what goes into the 'resin' used in them. No doll is worth getting sick over, and if that's what these materials will eventually do to someone, then some people need to rethink their priorities.

It's annoying that one must take a risk creating such a how-to-spot guide because it can easily fall into the wrong hands and become a lesson plan for bootleggers to perfect their craft, making it harder and harder to spot a fake.

 

I'm pretty sure that bootleggers (at least, those who actually manufacture these things on taobao) aren't trying to pass off their goods as originals, not with their ridiculously (comparatively) cheap pricing. I'm pretty sure their objective is to sell their products as bootlegs to people who are fully aware that they're bootlegs, otherwise, they'd be pricing their stuff a lot higher and not throwing a bunch of different companies together with no rhyme, reason or distinction. Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about creating that comparison database, as far as 'bootleggers will use it to make fakes that are harder to spot' goes.

And for those still talking about poisonous resin, please do note that 1) all resin is toxic, which is why you should always use protection when fooling around with it, and 2) there exists bootleggers who have resin quality on par with the genuine dolls (who have been reviewed on that tumblr thing), so I don't think 'toxic resin' is gonna scare people off anymore.

EDIT

Just to make clear, I am pretty sure that the manufacturers of bootlegs don't care beyond the outer aesthetics, so there is no issue with a database of comparisons, because I'm pretty sure they really don't care that their bootlegs can be told apart from genuine dolls. From what I understand about the rich bootlegging culture in China, the whole point is in the appearances. They're not trying to sell you a Gucci bag or a Soom doll. They're trying to sell you a bag that looks like a Gucci (it'll make you the envy of all your friends!), and this resin thing that looks like a Soom doll (it'll make you the envy of perfect strangers on specific internet forums!).

A database of comparisons and differences probably will not change the way that bootleggers manufacture their bootlegs, because these small changes are not gonna make them more money, especially if they're primary selling on taobao to cater to a local market (and really, they don't need to expand to other markets when they have theoretically around a sixth of the world's population at their fingertips), and especially if they are already making bootlegs that look genuine enough they pass as original at first glance.

 

This is a Catch 22 if I ever saw one. Since stumbling on this issue I've been reading and researching a lot. A lot of the info reads as a how-to guide which is disheartening. I don't know that there is a definite answer on how to resolve this. I doubt the issue will go away.
Buyers and sellers just have to be careful, research feedback on sellers, etc. Asking for certificates, proof of boxes, etc sounds good in theory but you can buy a genuine certificate, and one of my Soom Dia's did not come with a Soom box because he came unassembled as an Xmas kit. I chunked the shipping box because it was ripped. Luckily, I can provide other ways to verify ownership but what a headache this has become.

 

At this point, one of the things we can do is to keep thorough records of our purchases - receipts, EMS/customs slips, emails, order numbers, etc. Also, taking pictures of box openings for our own records, even if we don't post them online. Of course, once the doll changes hands numerous times, these things will get lost or simply not provided for privacy reasons, but, at least, the original owner will have documentation on hand to reassure a buyer that the doll is not a recast.

I agree with sakuraharu about the issue of tolerance. To me, this situation is not about 'tolerating' a law abiding subgroup that I simply disagree with. People who knowingly buy and sell bootlegs are breaking the law and are hurting others financially (among other things). This is not simply a difference of opinion - it's a legal issue.

There are times when people challenge laws that they find unjust, restrictive or otherwise too prohibitive. If some people really feel strongly about their 'right' to purchase bootlegs, why not come out of hiding, organize and challenge the copyright law, instead of hiding behind a veil of anonymity? I still won't agree with your stance, but at least you'll be standing up for what you, evidently, believe is your right.

 

I collect some of the higher-end haute couture, I own no LV or anything, but I do like to collect pieces of vintage Chanel and etcetera, I also collect Victorian antiques. I condemn reproductions, period, particularly of the brand-labels. Are you are buying the name, you should not recast, and no argument makes it right. Period. The inability to afford something on the secondhand market does not excuse the reproduction of something you didn't create.

 

Chienism: Way back on page 4 you quoted 2 sentences from me (where I quite clearly stated that I do not approve of harassing people)... and then went on to state (eloquently as Dusskodesh later states) for two whole paragraphs how wrong harassment is, as though I was calling for that... please don't quote me if you can't be bothered to understand my quite plain meaning, eloquent or not!

 

Chienism: Ohhhhhhhhhhh... Ok, I haven't had my breakfast yet, so still grumpy. Sorry about that I take back my comment! Massive apologies.

On the subject that keeps popping up of honest, good hearted folk who buy a recast knowingly and would never dream of trying to pass it off as the real thing when it comes time to resell.... errrrrr, they knowingly bought stolen goods, so their morality compass is pretty dodgy to start with!

 

I've had a brother who did illegal things and my parents didn't want to be tough on him, because they were afraid that he'd end up in the gutter if they pushed him to far away. So everybody around him patted him on his head and he learned he could get away with stealing, telling lies, and illegal stuff of which details are not relevant for this discussion, and that's what he did. He literally told me that if he could take something, it's his. I told him what he did was wrong and I refused to have any contact with him until after years he was able to say "It's wrong to lie. It's wrong to steal. It's wrong to do [X]. I made mistakes, I hurt people around me and I can't change what I did, but I don't want to do those things anymore." After which things were fine between us since he tries to be a decent person despite what he did in the past.
I'm pretty sure he would never have realised that what he did was wrong if everybody around him, me including, continued to shield him from the consequences of his actions. Positive indifference was very harmful for my brother. If he had gotten some real punishment the first time he was caught doing something seriously wrong he would have thought "I'd better not do that again." instead of thinking it was his right to do so. Instead he ended up doing a string of things he now regrets.

If you let someone steal and cheat without as much as a word, you show them you think it's okay. And let's be honest, how much harm are you doing by saying things like "I don't think people should buy recasts." or "Buying recasts is illegal. You could get into trouble if you buy one."? You're not doing much harm. You can still be friends and show you disapprove. Friendship and loyalty is not about magical ass patting. It's about honesty and you're harming friends/family by condoning illegal activities with "positive indifference". They may not care about what you say, but at least you've said it. Ignored disapproval is not the same as approving silence.

 

Since I just got two screenshots via mail (from this recast forum and the /toy/ board on 4chan were people start complaining about this topic now too) were people are quite miffed about my statement (and a lot of other statements made here too) I will just clarify it here again:

If a customizer says he doesn't want to work on recasts you have to honor that, no exceptions.
If you still think you can trick the customizer in working on your recast, even though you know he doesn't want to, you need to be prepared for the punishment.
And unlike a few other people who tend to keep silent about bad transactions etc. I won't do so.
If you were in terms of moral low enough to a) buy a recast and b) send a customizer your recast who has stated he doesn't want to work on them I'm more than sure that you will c) also be willing to sell these recasts to others without telling them.
You weren't able to be honest enough to someone who has to work with these dolls, so why should you be honest to someone else?
And that's why I would tell others about it so they won't be fooled like I did.

A few customizers on DA have already stated that they will probably stop modification services on dolls that are not from close friends or their own due the fact that enough customers out there are willing to send recasts without telling them.
That's another case of "recast owners destroyed something for legit owners who didn't do anything wrong".
If you had enough luck that your customizer didn't recognize he's holding a recast in his hands..good for you, but don't think that will always be the case.

Customizers are not your slave, so don't act like they are supposed to swallow every shit you might do to them just because you are willing to pay for it.
If someone doesn't want to work on recasts, respect that.
It's really not that hard.

/Announcement off
(sorry I had to do that here but I'm neither on the recast forum myself nor will I ever post on 4chan)



And now to the rest:
I agree with Lexis.
What usually counts for bootleggers is that the finished product is close enough for people to recognize and enjoy, but not SO close that it really seems absolutely perfect.
If you simply type in "recast" on Flickr you will find a bunch of recasts from Iplehouse, Unoa etc.
A few owners even made a side by side comparison with original dolls.
The actual problem is: For making a comparison you need the original AND recast.
Either people don't own the original or the recast and we already see how "useful" this recast tumblr is...because providing simple shop photos is not really helping at all.

 

sakuraharu hit the nail on the head a way back (sorry, I have a lot of pages to catch up), the ONLY way to stop bootlegging is for BJD artists/companies to state where each batch of their dolls have been cast, name the actual batch and which factory in China produced it and how many they were contracted to produce. That way they (and we) would have the information necessary to figure out which casting houses are involved in illegal bootlegging and then they/we could also estimate the scale of bootlegging for each doll. That would be a great resource for BJD companies as well because they would know which casting facilities to avoid, and that in turn would shame the casting houses in to tightening up their operations if they wanted to stay in business.

Big mass production toy companies can afford to build bootlegging costs into their profit margins (I don't see why they should have to, but there you go) but small BJD companies cannot do it for very long. Bootlegs and recasts take away first hand sales revenue, they also destroy faith in the secondary market and eventually the smaller scale BJD artists cannot afford to keep going, so they close up shop one by one and the whole BJD hobby implodes. The bootleggers won't give a damn because they will just go and bootleg something else, but a whole lot of people who bought bootlegged dolls, claiming they were harming no-one, will whinge and whine on Tumblr and elsewhere that the hobby they love has ground to a halt. They will never for one second imagine that had anything to do with them!

The only way to deal with this is to go after the Bootleggers at the source in China and to educate or shame the bootleg customers, because if there wasn't a huge call for these ripped off dolls the bootleggers would be ripping off some other industry.

 

Funny how no one has compared this to the lolita hobby yet. Because I think it's interesting.
Correct me, if I'm way off, I only know a little about Danish lolitas, so that's where I get my knowledge from.
But isn't it interesting how replicas is so accepted in the lolita hobby. I've never seen anyone throw insults like these who have been thrown in this thread at lolitas. Now, it could be there is not a single lolita in this thread, but honestly, would you judge a lolita who bought a replica just as harsh as you judge bootleg owners? I'm mostly interested in lolitas opinion, but anyone is free to answer.
Would you call them creeps, animals and thieves? Or is it something else, when it comes to lolitas?

And I've never seen lolitas fearing for their secondhand marked. People there (as far as I've seen) disclose wether the dress is a replica or not. Maybe (and this is just me wondering) if recasts were accepted, people would not have to fear buying secondhand, because people were free to be honest about their recasts.
Of course someone might try to sell off a recast as the real deal, but I think that'll happen no matter what our stance on recasts are, and it should be dealt with accordingly.

I'm not trying to force DoA to accept recasts with this. Heck, I don't even own a recast. I just find it so weird how two so alike hobbies have such a different take on the same thing.

 

@Akatsuki:
Maybe it's a Danish thing but....holy hell, if there is a nasty community it's the Lolita one.
I have a lot of friends there and I'm myself an Ex-Lolita, and at least in Germany it was all about brands.
You didn't have Angelic Pretty etc.?
Well, then go away.
You had to take VERY clear pictures of everything (like the little brand signs inside the clothes) so people could be sure it's not a replica or whatever you are selling to them.
Just look at Livejournal/4chan etc., it's all about the well known brands and even throughout these brands you had dresses which were more worth than others.

In Japan etc. it's a bit different as long as it's well made it's also okay to make it yourself, but in most western countries it's all about the brands.
Hell, on some Lolita meets you had clear groups and the ones with the high-end brands were nasty to the others and whatnot.
I have no idea why you think that Lolitas are all nice and dandy.
Only difference is we mostly make this stuff through the internet, on some Lolita meets it's a wonder when people don't claw each others eyes out.
If you'd dare going to an AP meet wearing a replica these girls would pretty much rip you apart.

 

I never said all lolitas are nice (though the Danish ones seem to be very different from the international ones), I said that I've never seen such witch hunts, and that made me wonder, why it's seen as less morally wrong. Elitism in lolita is not the same. We already have a bit of that with chinese brands.
Like, why don't you ever hear the same arguments applied?