Recasts and Bootlegging

I have to strongly disagee with 'don't tell anyone how to spot a recast, the bootleggers will use it!' It protects no one, because the bootleggers are already aware of those issues. Why do you think some have gone to 3d scanning to get around mold shrinkage? Also, I think most of them do not care enough to read an english forum and go 'now I know how to trick more people!' Most of them are selling their dolls as recasts for people who do not care they are recasts to make a buck. They aren't trying to perfect their craft, just pull a profit.

 

Actually I've seen similar (not quite as bad tho) witchunts in the lolita community and people insulting people who wear replicas. They're commonly called thieves by some other lolitas. That said, when it comes to clothing I do believe such things as copyrighting is a lot more ...loophole...y.
Er, I've gone a little off topic though I think.

 

Then it is perhaps a Danish thing.

 

@Akatsuki:
There is no difference.
Lolita, BJDs etc. are hobbies that are mostly based on the same things:
- money
- brands
- beauty
And sometimes you have the artistic note, but that's more a BJD than Lolita thing.
These hobbies are pure luxury, you pay a lot of money for these things and that's why replicas are such a problem for a lot of people.
When people are talking about replicas you will seldom hear positive things.
It's usually about people fooling others, it's about bad craftmanship compared to the original, it's about hurting the community and companies etc.
In such hobbies people have a very strong bond with the companies and replicas and recasts are to them a problem because they are hurting their beloved companies.
For Lolitas replicas are the cheap clothes for the ones who can't afford and mostly can't fit (size-wise) into the original dresses.
You can buy them, but don't expect to be welcomed on the meets.
Hell, you wouldn't go with a Volks replica into one of their shops and gardens, wouldn't you?

And if there is witch-hunting it's in the Lolita (and also cosplay) area.
Just look at all these sites, LJ, 4chan, Lolita Confession tumblr and so on were people are nasty to each other because they don't like your nose or the shape of your hips.

And unlike here where people are whining because others WOULD call them out if they try to sell recasts, in the Lolita community that's absolutely normal.
You try to fool someone?
You will most likely be posted here:
http://getoffegl.livejournal.com/

 

As I wrote just above your post, it must indeed be a Danish thing. But to be honest, elitism just seem less bad in Denmark.

 

Just want to make a fast statement for those who think/say/decide not to buy from Spanish BJD users because they do fear they may be sold a recast.

I do not think it is the best way to avoid being cheated. If you really want to avoid it, better take more care on buying dolls with plates/paperwork/boxes/original face up or any item that can't be faked. Also, another great strategy is know what you are buying.

For example, if you really want a Volks YOSD, inform yourselves about them and you will find out they are not produced in Tan colour. Hence if you say a Tan YOSD do not buy it. (I know this may sound a little stupid, but I have seen a lot of people who buy or even sell without having an idea of what they are selling).

I think those two strategies will do you much better than just avoiding X nationality people. Which, by the way, I think it is unfair for those nationality people.

 

Possibly because not everyone in the BJD hobby is also in the lolita hobby or community? I have a passing interest in lolita but I've never been part of the community so there's no way I could draw any parallels and expect to know what I'm talking about.
Different hobbies have different collective views on certain things but just because one hobby is a-okay with people ripping off creators doesn't mean everyone has to be. People have already covered why they're not willing to take excuses from people participating in the recast business. I don't think elitism has anything to do with this, least of all elitism directed at any one country's doll based output because it applies in every direction possible, there's people who are snobby about those who own expensive dolls too so it really has no baring.

 

^ This.

Bootleggers are NOT concerned with making exact replicas of the dolls. They're concerned with making a profit. In the case of dolls, the makers of the bootleg dolls are catering to people who want to buy bootlegs; they're not trying to fool anyone. Heck, they even seem to offer their own resin colours; in my research, I saw that a number of recasters offer their own brew of white, normal, tan and grey! The NS and WS are also said to rarely match the colour of the original company's resin, which is a strong indicator that the bootleggers, quite frankly, don't give a shit about making an exact replica.

The people who ARE trying to fool people are those who resell bootlegs for legit prices on the second-hand market. Hence: a guide to spotting the fakes would prove valuable.

 

Ah, but that's the definition of a judgement call. You know your brother well so you made a call about how to deal with the situation. I know my friends and family best so I judge how best to deal with them. It's a personal evaluation that you can't make over the interwebs. How could I judge someone without ever having met them? Besides which, I made an entire later post about voicing concerns to people in non-confrontational ways.

 

Really. The topic of lolitas wasn't brought up because it has nothing to do with the topic here, and because many of us are not lolitas, nor interested. But I must add, if lolitas regularly speak out loudly against illegal bootleg products, and try to create a climate in their community where ilegal bootlegs aren't tolerated, then thumbs up to them.

And Ye Olde Elitism Debate isn't the topic, either; we're not talking about scorning somebody because they own a different brand, we're talking about community standards that reject illegal bootlegged items. The excuses of "but I'm too poor for a real one" or "but I just want to fit in, otherwise those meanies will call me names" simply do NOT hold up when you are talking about illegal bootleg items. You don't get to complain you're being persecuted or bullied if you've actually done wrong.

You can make a value judgment over the interwebs [sic] quite easily. If you see an illegal activity being practiced out in the open, people bragging about getting away with it, & a forum that's deliberately fostering it, you can make the judgment that those people clearly have values you don't share, and make the judgment that you don't want to do business with them.

Say you had stumbled upon a kiddie-porn confession tumblr instead; would you still maintain that you have no right to judge them over the internet? "Oh, I have no right to judge them, I'm not the cops. Besides, it might hurt their feelings." I suppose if someone's, likesay, a severe-beliefs Christian with that "judge-not-lest-ye" thing going on, they might find it logical. It's just that I don't.

 

Comparing child porn to bootlegging? Really??? I didn't even want to engage in this thread but that's disgustingly over the line. They're not at all equivalent. Holy shit.

 

chienism, thanks for putting this survey together, but I'd like to note that any findings you glean from it are not in the least scientifically or statistically accurate. (PhD in science here.) You would have to survey a random group of BJD owners to collect that kind of data. By its nature, this type of survey can't be that, because it relies on people (a) finding the link to the survey and (b) caring enough about the topic to click on the link and fill out the survey. So it's not at all accurate to call it "somewhat random." It's very similar to the "polls" you see on the local nightly news or elsewhere on the internet which carry the disclaimer "this poll is not scientifically accurate...," so its results should be taken with a huge grain of salt. It is biased by its very nature. Therefore your finding of 0.08% of dolls being recasts actually means that 0.08% of dolls from owners who cared enough (and were quick enough) to answer the survey. (edit: I just did the math, and based on your numbers it's 0.7% not 0.08% recast dolls out of the population surveyed)

That said, this type of survey is useful for gauging interest and there does seem to be interest (at least among those who responded) in some type of how to guide for spotting recasts.

 

*sigh* Nobody SAID they were equivalent. Good lord, people. I should've known somebody would say that.

It's an illegal activity that a lot of people feel strongly about, which was why it was used as an example. Il-lus-tra-tive.

 

So pick another example because that one sucks, sorry. I can't think of a worse comparison, child porn vs first world luxury hobby.

 

Not only that, it's an illegal activity that a small subset of people think is absolutely fine to engage in.

 

Someone confessing doing something illegal in person or online is still confessing doing something illegal. Even if you don't want to judge a person, you can still let them know you disapprove of the illegal act.
You also mention that you're fine with whatever people do as long as they cause no harm, but just because you don't want to acknowledge the harm, does not mean there's no harm done. People may not get murdered over recasts, but recasts do cause harm.

 

When you make overblown statements though, people can focus on the fact that you over-stated it rather than the point you were trying to make.

Compare it to a tumblr telling people where to download episodes of a licensed US television show. As an anime fan, while I fully support fansubs of unlicensed shows, I would not support people who were posting downloads of licensed US anime. If you want there to be a US anime industry in the future you don't do that.

 

Sorry if the hard realities of the first world are a bit much for you! Well, there is this (thank you Sakuraharu):

But in my post, there WAS no comparison of crime-to-crime. If you had read the post, you would understand that I was illustrating was of the appropriateness of judging others over the internet. NOT comparing the crime of making/selling child pornography vs. the crime of making/selling bootleg dolls. I was illustrating the fact that if you watch somebody blatantly engaging in illegal activities that you feel strongly about, you can make a value-judgment very easily.

Is that clearer now?

 

I understood your point. MY point is that using that specific comparison is excessively inflammatory. There are plenty of other crimes you could use that don't make people remember that one time on 4chan that they can't erase from memory. Anyway I'm having a really crappy day and should probably just drop it.

 

This is exactly what I find stupid about the way many people are handling the recast situation. It's the same reason the 'You wouldn't download a car!!!' campaign attempted by the music industry was universally chuckled at by the internet. Had they perhaps shown a singer performing then suddenly stopping and walking off stage with a slogan like 'Illegal downloading, it stops the music.' or something similar they might have gotten their point across better.

It seems to me that name calling and harassment won't really accomplish much. If you've already established that anyone who even thinks of buying a recast is the lowest scum of the earth then why should they reconsider? You've already told them they were trash and they can't get any lower then that.

I was really impressed with how batchix wrote her confession on how recasts make her feel. She explained how hard she worked on her dolls and how much it would hurt her if someone stole them from her by making recasts. I wish more BJD companies and artist would help put a human face behind the dolls. I think that would go further to sway people away from recasts then spamming them with angry messages.