religion and your views on your dolls.

I dont believe dolls have souls as they are not alive however some of my dolls have the kind of eye that makes you think they could have souls.

I dont very often cuddle my dolls etc but i do talk to them and enjoy dressing them to make them look nice. I was never into dolls as a child and only started collecting a couple of years ago, and was amazed at how it differs from person to person how we all look up on our dolls
interesting thread to read

 

I'm an atheist, so I don't believe in gods or religious doctrine. I don't feel that anything has a "soul" because I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary. I do believe, however, that you should find what makes you happy and go for it. We only have one life and might as well live it to the fullest!

 

Well, it really depends. In ancient times, some of the older civilizations (sp?) saw things such as rocks and water having souls - and those are not living. If you look at it that way, dolls could possibly be seen as having souls.

I'm personally nonreligious and I sort of look at it like this. My dolls, to me, have a personality and thoughts. But those are imprinted on them by me. So I think by themselves they don't have a soul or life. But because I've given them one, they now reside within mine, so by extension could be considered having one.

Ugh that probably made no sense whatsoever. It's difficult to explain ^^;

 

Completely agree with firefly.

I do not see my dolls as having a soul the way a human or a friend does. I see them as being something I made up and created. I would not grieve for their loss the way I would for a human. I also, think my dolls would be happier sitting on my shelf then constantly being played with and possibly damaged.

 

Silveraura,

This thread has been very enlightening...so much wisdom on your part for someone so young...I wish you all the best and hope you are doing well.

So much has been shared...

I grew up in an extreme religion that many consider a cult. I was raised with superstitious beliefs regarding evil forces entering inanimate objects and I was always in terror. Four years ago, I left the cult, and am still recovering in so many ways.

I feel my religious background left me cold regarding inanimate objects, until recently. After having left my religion, I've allowed myself to be more open to other beliefs and ideas...I met someone truly special who holds similar beliefs as yours and has really affected me in a good way. He is a true child at heart.

I just had to reach out to you. I sincerely hope you have been well.

My heart goes out to you...(((Hugs)))

~kikirose

 

In my case, my religion has nothing to do with dolls. If I were to start worshipping one... then there might be a problem. Yeah... I don't think a religious topic is suitable for these forums.

But anyways, I don't believe dolls have souls, but I do think that we are allowed to give them personalities. They are not physical living beings, so they do not feel. If my doll were smashed to pieces, she wouldn't die, she'd be broken, like if you shattered a glass vase. Same deal.

The way I see it, treat your dolls however you'd like-- like an object or living-- it's your choice and it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

 

Huh.

This is a fascinating debate thread -- it's impressive to see so many people presenting such different viewpoints and treating everyone else civilly all at the same time. Maybe we should all consider politics as a career.

Anyhow, on-topic:

My religion -- or lack thereof -- has nothing to do with how I view my dolls. They're possessions, and inanimate ones at that. Yes, they're very precious possessions, and I'm quite attached to them, but they aren't ensouled beings (or beings of any kind). I think they've got more...hm...emotional attachment potential than something like the laptop I'm using to type this, but they're still just things created out of resin and adorned with fabric and paint. The religion I was raised in would definitely frown at the notion of anything inanimate possessing a soul, though, that I know for sure.

Re: other things in this thread -- whomever first said that everyone is right because their opinion is correct for them is absolutely right. It's my own personal belief that every religion and belief system has some portion of the truth to it, regardless of how diametrically opposite they may seem from each other. The belief system has truth for the person following it, and that's enough to make it valid. So long as nobody presents their system as being The Absolute Truth And The Rest Of You Are WRONG OMG, then all is well with the world. If you believe your doll possesses a soul, either for personal or religious reasons, then power to you. If you believe your doll does not have a soul and never can, then power to you. My hackles will go up only if you insist that I subscribe to the same belief you do, or use the opportunity to preach at me. I will confess, I detest preaching of any sort. It's a real quick way to get me pissed off.

For the record: I was raised Mormon though I consider myself agnostic.

 

Ok, I admit to just skimming over a bunch of these posts, but some were so very interesting! I'm a witch - not a Wiccan like Rook, mind. I admit to sending a nasty letter to National Geographic (to cancel my subscription) when an article on figurines found in a cave basically called the female figures 'pornographic dolls' but exalted the [one] male figure as a god image. ~sigh~
I believe in quantum physics lol & figure most of the weirdness of life starts there somehow. Saying that, I CERTAINLY believe that energy can manifest, somehow, in inanimate objects. Many ancient spiritual beliefs noticed this phenomena & incorporated this into their belief system. With dolls, or stuffed animals, or a beloved blanket (although I'm thinking a lot easier to project onto a doll that looks real) this in my experience has mainly been a positive kind of reinforced security thing. However, I happen to own an authentic Haitian Voudun doll, made in the form of a priestess by a village wisewoman as a vessel for a protective spirit, in the 1930s. The missionary lady for whom it was made (which I have always thought was a HIGH compliment to that lady) sent it to my mom (said missionary lady thinking it 'just a doll') and she's been with me all my life. That doll just completely sends off protective energy. I haven't a clue about the scientific way of it (which obviously has to be there) - I'd say absorbing the energies around it somehow - I don't know. But I accept it. As for my other dolls, resin or otherwise, they absorb what I put in them - however much or little that might be. I do not call this a 'soul'. They are not alive. The actual physical doll IS just an object. It is a FOCUS. I put things on my altar to focus energy, to become 'charged' so to speak, or as symbols.
Now that is another powerful way dolls become more than the resin objects they start out as - my dolls are becoming physical symbols of the characters I am creating for them (writing for them) or of characters I have written about for years. Symbols are extremely important and carry some kind of intrinsic energy with them - I believe they attract energy in a way.
Anyway, I think many people in this thread have pointed out a very important point - EVERYONE has their own beliefs, & the right to have them! How dull the world would be if we all were exactly the same!

 

This is such an interesting discussion, and I'm so happy that it's remained so civil ^^

I am also a Wiccan, seems to be way more around than I had previously tought! My religion doesn't really affect how I interact with dolls, however I do think I take the soul thing further personally than i do religiously.(If that makes sense >.>)

I've always felt that "inanimate" objects have some kind of soul/spirit/life spark, whatever you want to call it. Other people tend to think it's pretty extreme, but it's always been normal to me. I believe that everything is sentient. Whether it's a doll, a computer, a car or the frequently mentioned can of soup.

At the beginning of this year, my mom bought me a laptop and when we went to the store there were basically two choices, a macbook air or the chipped toshiba I have now. I almost was at the point of tears when deciding because i didn't want to hurt either laptop's feelings v.v

Sounds stupid, I know. I eventually decided for the chipped one because my mom (being cruel) told me a story about how since it had superficial damage no one would buy it or love it and it would end up in the land fill and be sad and lonely. That decided it for me but it was still a heart-wrenching decision.

That was kind of off-topic, but just to show how much I believe that everything has a soul. As mentioned by others, I think that a doll's soul may not be exactly the same as a human soul, it may not feel pain the same way, but I do think that they can feel neglect, or joy. That they can miss you and they can have their own personalities, as long as you have an open ear and an open mind to what they are trying to tell you.

If a doll goes on to another owner, then I just hope that the doll will be well taken care of and that the doll and the owner can find some happy medium. Whether the owner believes that the doll has a soul or not, I think everyone agrees on a few things that constitute "well taken care of" (ex: don't run it over with your car.)

Also as everyone has said, this is just my opinion, and it's right to me. I don't really expect anyone else to have the exact same opinion anyways, I'm always considered a little loonie! :P

 

When I was little I adamantly believed that all of my toys were alive, had feelings and could talk to each other. I drove my mother MAD when I insisted on putting all 45+ of my stuffed animals plus 20-something small figurines to bed in an elaborate sleeping tent camp I pitched for all of them, making sure they were all sleeping with their best friends. I just felt so bad for them, imagining how cold and unloved they'd feel if I left them out, especially if I took one or two favourites to sleep in my bed. Don't even get me started on what happened if I accidentally lost one of them.

As I grew up... I'm going to be honest, I don't know how I feel about it. I feel that there is a definite aspect to it that we ourselves create and imagine when we bestow them with characters and stuff, but if that's all there is to it... I don't know. I guess it extends to my feelings about religion as well. I guess if I was hard-pressed for an answer, I'd say I'm on the spiritual side of things, though I definitely do not adhere to any organized cult or religious teachings. To be truthful, I still sort of... talk at my dolls, if, for example, I had to quickly toss them into a box because I was in a hurry - I'd apologize, or I'd chastise them if I'm trying to put on clothes and they just keep flip-flopping every which way. If they're just inanimate objects, you're still not hurting anyone by talking at them, are you? (as long as you keep it sane, of course) I can't help it when my imagination runs wild though, and extend the "treat others how you want to be treated" on dolls, when I imagine what I would want to be treated like if I was a toy. It's not like I fear them, or feel that I must placate them lest they attack me in my sleep or something. There's no negativity involved at all, that's one thing I believe in for sure. ^^

 

I always find it interesting when people cite ancient cultures and religions etc in this kind of discussion. Because sure enough there is a lot of them that do believe such things, like spirits and such and some people take this in a very literal "if so and so culture believed it, it must be true" way, like there's some ancient wisdom that we've lost along the way. While many older cultures where obviously far more in touch in with their environment that we as a whole might be these days we also know a lot more about how the world works than people did back then. Ancient people used what they believed to be true to explain their world, it's human nature to try to understand what's around us but because they lacked the understanding we've gained through things like advances in technology they will have applied what they considered to be true to explain those things, that includes attributing things to spirits or what have you because to them, that was the logical conclusion to draw.

I just find it very interesting that people still latch onto that when we do have far better tools for understanding what's around us than people did even a century ago, never mind a millennia ago and argue that because say, there's an old Japanese belief that dolls can be possessed by disembodied souls that there must be some grain of truth in it because it's an 'ancient' belief, or like your example with rocks and water Flammy, purely because it was the only way people had to explain the world around them back then.

 

I am so glad to see someone else on here (may be more here in all the pages of comments, sorry I didn't check through all the posts) who not only knows of that old fact, but also believes it.

I myself have always believed in such things. I was raised Christian, however have pagan roots within my family, which I now claim as my own faith. I have always believed in spirits, ghosts, fae/folk and other spiritual beings which normally cannot be seen. So I do believe that dolls can and are used as vessels by spirits.

It's safe to say on this note, that my religion/faith does influence how I treat my dolls. I admit, my old porcelain collection is sitting in boxes, but only because I just don't have the space to keep them out. I actually feel bad about my older dolls having to "sleep" all the time. Now getting into BJD, it feels different. The one little girl I have at home now spent months in a box with her things while I was visiting friends in Germany, and boy was she mad when I got back later than I had lead her to believe (had I thought I would stay longer I would have taken her with me). She seemed so put off and angry. At this time, I become aware that the name I had given her was not to her liking. I told her to tell me in a dream what her name should be. The next day, her old name Sayuri (meaning Lily) was out, and I've called her Lily ever since. She seems much happier now that I got it right.

My new girl who is currently on the way, I believe a certain irish fae/folk spirit who has followed me for some time claimed the doll before I even paid for her. Her name came to me out of the blue while looking at the doll's pictures. She already has a very distinct personality which I never would have thought up on my own.

Understandably, I know dolls themselves are not alive. Cannot move on their own (though I feel they would very much love to do so if given the chance), and may not have minds in the sense that people do. However I do believe the mind is an extension of the soul, the person residing in a body. And that a human body in a way is little more than a very complex doll which can move and function upon the will of who resides in it.



To clarify: I fully believe everyone should have the right to believe in what they feel is right for them. So if someone feels their dolls are "alive" in a sense, so be it. If they feel their dolls are just pretty objects, so be it. In the long run...beliefs like this don't hurt anyone. It may make people who don't believe in spirits which live in dolls look at people like myself as being insane, naïve, misguided, or overly imaginative, but that's their right just as believing in it is ours.

 

That sounds like me ^^;

As for the rest of your post, I do the same thing. I'll talk to them or apologise, and I do believe that they understand

 

I'm an atheist, so... no.

Once my brain shuts off, I don't exist anymore in consciousness, just as a physical body. Someone in a coma or who has become mentally injured is still a person, but that is not at all like a doll. A doll as a person would equate to someone who is completely brain dead... a corpse. A doll that was never living and never had a consciousness also does not "exist" as a living being in any capacity.

However... art (which the dolls are) has beauty and history bestowed upon it by the craftsmanship of the artist, sculptor, and doll maker, and I can appreciate them having "personality" in that way; as an extension of the intentions of the artists who ARE living (or once lived). Or, appreciate my own intentions as I style the doll, as an extension of my own personality.

edit: and yes, I had the phase as a child thinking my toys had personality. I logically knew they didn't, but I had the emotional experience of feeling guilty if I "hurt" one. I think all kids have that phase. Our brains do not finish developing until around age 25... and as kids our brains are still learning, and slowly being able to think logically and abstractly in different ways... so this phase makes developmental sense, as long as you eventually grow out of it.

 

Wow, this thread just kind of exploded, didn't it?

Personally, I am Christian(though I don't generally act like it), and I do love BJD's, but they are in no way related to each other. My dolls are already developing their own personalities, views, and thoughts with little help from me, but I don't really think they have souls. They have characteristics and beliefs of their own that makes them almost lifelike, but I don't really think they're literally alive.

 

Tetradeka, you have said everything that I would have said. I don't think my faith/religion has anything to do with dolls or other inanimate things, and as such, they don't have souls. However, I will say this; when you are attached to a particular object for emotional reasons, that object does reflect all the attention that you give it. Case in point; when I was a tiny child, I had a teddy bear that was more than a toy to me. Even though at that young age I knew that it wasn't truly alive, it most certainly was a comforting entity to me. The bear bore the marks of a stuffed toy that was heavily used and handled almost constantly. It was transformed from the way it looked at the factory to the way it looked after I owned it (and let me tell you, it was unrecognizable from the way it looked from the factory). Antique teddy bears are also all unique, even if they came from the same company and are the same model. The imprint of the original owner of the bear has forever left its mark on it. That is about as close to a "soul" as any inanimate object can attain. I love BJDs because they are so readily customizable and can become unique thanks to the way they are treated by their owners. Dolls fulfill an emotional need in us. Nothing more or less. The fact that the dolls change as the owner uses them, is merely a reflection of its creator, and in this sense, perhaps this can be loosely compared to my belief in a Creator who has left His mark on me. There is otherwise no religious tie as such.

 

It's a very interesting thing to think about...and your English isn't that bad! I'm an English Major - Literature concentration (so close to be an English Graduate! 8d One more year, one more year!) and you're doing fine :P

As for religion interfering with dolls? Well, sort of! However, it's not me so much, as it is my husband. I'm super fascinated with the "occult" (I really dislike using that term, but supernatural sounds worse for some reason), so I've messed around with such things a lot; EVP recordings, talking boards (Ouija Boards more famously I think), scrying, and just in general anything, whatever I can get my hands on or find out about through validated research (which there is not much of depending on personal definitions of validation) and first hand experience. I use the talking board a lot or used to. My husband believes in it pretty adamantly, that it's genuine spiritual contact. I do not believe so heavily however, as I've not had so much proof to validate that...maybe a couple of times at max, one of which was rather creepy. But, he believes that once a spirit is drawn to a location, through use of a talking board, that it will keep coming back again and again, it's part of his belief system. He believes that once I finally get a doll, that something will posses it. I don't think that will happen at all, but it makes him weary because of his superstitious nature. So, he's kind of been trying to get me somewhat uninterested. He's finally getting used to the idea, because I'm hard headed about my hobbies.

But, I believe that even if that stuff is more real than I'd like to think, my doll won't become possessed, because it already has a soul of sorts. That and I don't believe that there are any wandering spirits around these parts.

It's not alive of course. You can prove life through science, first and foremost, life is the presence of cell activity (if memory serves correctly, it's been a while since I took Bio 100). A doll does not have that present, thus it's not alive. BUT, you cannot prove the existence or non-existence of a soul. It's impossible. Philosophy and Science has tried to decipher the soul for eons. You are the person who defines what a soul is and where it exists. Or you can let religion do that for you. Christianity and other such religions, defines that animals do not have a soul. I strongly disagree with this, because in my opinion, a soul is a personality of sorts and my cat is so sassy, he definitively has a personality. A soul is something that is either present in the living already, i.e. my persian likes to be sassy; my husband is obsessed with black metal, etc. Or it's something that you can craft and imbue into something inanimate, maybe a doll, might be whatever you want it to be. I think all art has traces of a soul, because you left those traces there when you invested yourself into creating it. The doll is what you make it to be, which is what is awesome about it.

It's really cool that this conversation has stayed so civil. It's a very interesting one to have. I really respect the views of everyone else and I hope my contribution did not offend in anyway. :3

 

Love this, I have to cosign here. Let everyone be free to beleive or not beleive.

 

I'm not a strictly religious person, but I do tend to follow one religion closer than anything else, and it actually encourages indulgence and making yourself happy, despite what others think. lol So, it's perfectly acceptable for me to do what makes me happy, which is enjoy my dolls, play with them, role play them, cuddle them and give them personality.

I DO think some dolls have spirit, but not in the "you are a living. breathing. human" way. More like, you spend so much time customizing, giving them a personality and story that you put a little of your own heart into them. It's kind of like the Velveteen Rabbit, in a figurative way. You love it enough, you bring it to life.

but a lot of that is also in perspective and imagination. If one doesn't want to see it, they won't. It's like any aspect of faith. What works for some doesn't for others.

 

I agree! It's also nice to know I'm not alone out there lol, and that is a great quote!!!!