1. It has come to the attention of forum staff that Dollshe Craft has ceased communications with dealers and customers, has failed to provide promised refunds for the excessive waits, and now has wait times surpassing 5 years in some cases. Forum staff are also concerned as there are claims being put forth that Dollshe plans to close down their doll making company. Due to the instability of the company, the lack of communication, the lack of promised refunds, and the wait times now surpassing 5 years, we strongly urge members to research the current state of this company very carefully and thoroughly before deciding to place an order. For more information please see the Dollshe waiting room. Do not assume this cannot happen to you or that your order will be different.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Dollshe Craft and all dolls created by Dollshe, including any dolls created under his new or future companies, including Club Coco BJD are now banned from Den of Angels. Dollshe and the sculptor may not advertise his products on this forum. Sales may not be discussed, no news threads may be posted regarding new releases. This ban does not impact any dolls by Dollshe ordered by November 8, 2023. Any dolls ordered after November 8, 2023, regardless of the date the sculpt was released, are banned from this forum as are any dolls released under his new or future companies including but not limited to Club Coco BJD. This ban does not apply to other company dolls cast by Dollshe as part of a casting agreement between him and the actual sculpt or company and those dolls may still be discussed on the forum. Please come to Ask the Moderators if you have any questions.
    Dismiss Notice
Severe ongoing issues and concerns with Dollshe Dollshe Ban

religion and your views on your dolls.

Apr 4, 2011

Page 7 of 13
    1. "OP, If the resin that made your doll was melted down tomorrow would you still feel it had a spirit? If the resin that made your doll was never formed into a doll would you also feel compelled to treat it like a human? Does resin require human form for you to see it as having a soul? Just wondering."

      i would feel that if it was melted down its soul would have been given fire (a raw element) and thus power to move onto another plane or to carry on wandering again i would not see it as still having a soul to answer that question specifically. if it was a block of resin i would see it like a statue AKA not with a soul but with resin (just like a hunk of wood or sandstone) it has the opportunity to be however i would not say a statue has a soul it is an art piece that has seen love but not enough day to day almost idolism as some would put it to end up with a soul. only those that are of pure creation (not of a person or animal that really existed) is able to have a soul reside in it. and only if it was created from the heart and named when finished not started to become that thing. does that make sense. i hope it does as i dont know how else to put it :P. i believe it needs to be made into something with a that resembles something that could be living such as a human but also such as a pegasus and so on, it doesnt have to be a human form (it could even be a cat or a rabbit and so on) but it has to have a sense of realism and life form to be able to have a soul reside, plus not be based off of anothers being (may that be another artist or a god) and has to be named after and not before creation and based on how it feels after NOT what you make it into.


      "i don't need any reminding and I haven't forgotten because I think that statement is untrue. You would first need to demonstrate to me what you judge as the "first dolls". The first doll I can think of is this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_of_Willendorf dating at about 24,000 BC and she is believed to be an idol of fertility. To me she looks a hell of lot like a doll and there is no evidence that can prove she was used as a human vassal. "

      i see the point given not as a doll but more of a statue as all of its type always have to me. i may be wrong in thinking this but it is also created around anothers creation not off of the mind and it is named first so it would never be able to have a soul reside as it is not ' a pure creation' as such.

      hope that helps.
       
      #121 silveraura, Apr 19, 2011
    2. "silveraura, the bicycle comparison doesn't prove the mind (as in "brain") aspect wrong, - if I remember what I learned at the university right, the "muscles memory" is actually mostly depending on the cerebellum, which is a part of the brain. Or mind .
      By the way, my own religious opinions are not that far from Wiccan, so I can see where you are coming from. I just think that everybody has to make their own choice and that it is as legitimate to believe a doll has a soul as to think it is an inanimate object. There is no absolute truth. Thinking this way, my religion doesn't interfere with my hobby. Don't feel hurt by others saying that the dolls have no soul or are just objects, they do not intend to hurt you with these words.
      Also, I don't know the right way to say encouraging words in a language that is foreign for me, but I wish you well and may Her healing hand touch you."

      your words are very loving and i thank you for the sent healing every little helps.

      And yes the bicycle comparison can be seen as a poor one to those who know a bit more about the brain as yes your brain does remember such things but say you had a heart transplant and you start seeing memories from that heart that shows the muscle memories, just like genetic memories which can also be passed across that way ( i hate to use a game as reference but assasins creed is a great example of genetic memory at play and shows it well as i not yet fully understood branch of science) i was trying to keep a bit lower down on the amount of science and religion put into this as it can make things hard to understand for so many people and science is one of the more hated subjects for so many people i tend to avoid it in discussion regardless of it being my area of interest. but yes the brain causes a lot of our memories that we dont realize and even gives us new knowledge as if we already new it ( i remember when i first started science in secondary school and instantly knowing acid is sour and alkaline's are soapy to the taste without ever trying them and so on, which is a good show of that exact thing) now that example could be genetic memory from my parents and so on or it could be my mind just assuming and then so fast taking it for fact and it being right that i didnt notice, either of the two is plausible and both can seem absurd yet either way it still happened ( and i was instantly shunned by my class for being a know it all on my first day in the most difficult subject and was treated like a nerd ever more by that set of people) but thats how life goes. there are still many mysteries about the brain spirit mind even time travel that we are only reaching the ice burg on at the moment yet there are already quantum computers that can read 1 and 0 at the same time which are being made and there are also people using lazers to start proper research into time travel and people are now able to have their DNA read for many illnesses (and are now starting treatment threw it too [one of the latest being breast cancer]) so we really are only on the edge, such as if you took all of the 'space' out of all the human beings in the world we would fit into a match box. now that sounds absurd but many things in science are. we may be 70% water but over 99% of that water and every other atom is made of 'space'.. which is how this works.

      my point is regardless of faith or beliefs and understanding many things are unknown to us still and many things will stay that way ( such as how do you explain how someone can feel a presence or a coldness/ warmth to some places and someone else who hasnt seen you give that reaction will do the same when in the same place?) this is a good thing to bring up as so many faiths beliefs and sciences will put it down to many different things and though it seems off topic it is relevant as it brings up my initial point a bit better and also shows us our core beliefs a bit easier for interpretation, esp if people dont use references to prove their point, but just purely their 'blind understanding'.
       
      #122 silveraura, Apr 19, 2011
    3. im not at all trying to say if you treat your dolls differently to me then your wrong/ cruel and so on but quite the opposite i opened up the debate to be able to see what people think towards their own dolls and to see if what you believe in changes (maybe not deliberatly) how people treat their dolls.

      i also love to see how people are able to strengthen their views by reading others and seeing views from many places and walks of life. i have read every different religious book i can get my hands on and have also studied the core beliefs of so many faiths and still have got so much to learn and i love the social learning that happens but topics like this being raised and though it gets quite heated, or some people can be overly frank and thus rude, it is usually a delight to read and is fun to hear the expressions of people. i hate to be preached at or belittled and it CAN happen and does happen when religion is raised as with many topics but nothing is set in stone when it comes to religion which is why and with this forum accepting people from many different places its good to get POV from many places. i may have quite a diverse background religion wise but im very much english with an english belief ( its more of a folk belief that wicca but thats closest to it , however i do not believe in the goddess but many gods (like the shinto)) but i do not have a very good cultural background, im from a rural area of england with only english people living in it and no culture other than tradition until i walk into the nearest city which is fairly diverse but not so much as say manchester birmingham or london. so im a bit behind with that aspect so its good to hear so many view points even when strongly put across . though i dont advise doing it or being frank you really can upset people. my views as i have said are very odd to many people but in a way that is good because it helps to fire up a debate when its not from a standard religion especially as many people can become scared to say what they really think when coming up against some religions. i know many people who will not talk about religion with anyone christian as they end up being preached at or shouted at and so on because they are at extremes with eachother ( which is appalling behavior on both parts when it becomes a match rather than a debate) but this type of discussion is very healthy especially for the young mind as it really helps people to learn how they really feel and to question their own beliefs which is even more true when they just follow their parents beliefs blindly without thought (which is something i despise and would never do to a child if i ended up with one (which i doubt its not that i cant have them its more i wont because of my illness)). so please keep the discussion up i know im not about as much as i should be for such a well going debate (i didnt think it would pick up this well but im glad you have all taken it up so happily and well) but i am about and trying to carry on reading and replying when i can so keep it up for your own learning too, its not everyones idea of fun and relaxing but at least it is very interesting. have a good day everyone im now off, honest :P.
       
      #123 silveraura, Apr 19, 2011
    4. @ Silveraura: Still have to read the last three posts of you, but wanted to say something in advance. You keep telling people in this thread to refrain from preaching and stay respectful, but I don't really know why you're underlining this. As far as I can tell, none of the people posting in this thread were either preachy or disrespectful.

      This is a topic about religious views and it's very easy to confuse an explanation of someone's views as preaching. So far, I think people have only tried to explain how they feel about this topic, I haven't seen anyone trying to force others to think the way he/she does.

      Likewise, this thread has been very respectful - to you as well. People have discussed the examples that you gave in your first post (myself included), but that wasn't out of disrespect, but - since this is still a debate - because they (and I) did not agree with them. We explained how we felt your logic failed. It IS a discussion after all. That doesn't mean that we don't acknowledge your spiritual believes, but we were challenging your debate-skills, so to speak. (the wisest statement in the world could sound foolish if it is explained poorly)

      I'm sorry if you felt attacked, that wasn't my intention.
       
      #124 Silk, Apr 19, 2011
    5. @silk your fine, and im not meaning to nag at people specifically more just trying to remind people to stay calm and make sure that it doesnt happen because its the last thing that we want. people have been lovely and im grateful that no one has tried to tear my views apart and say im a devil worshiper, as to what usually happens to me when i say my views. i understand fully well that when people say something specifically to me about something ive said that they mean no harm just to debate it. im quite used to debating its one of my favourite past times. the only thing that annoys me is when people are very frank end up being rude, dont give reasons and dont post back either, the combination when in a debate is rude and unnecessary. but even still i will still take in what little they have said and carry on the debate. its very very difficult to annoy me or upset me in any way which is why i also do usually bring up this kind of debate as im calm enough and level headed and open minded enough to take what people throw, when others may not be. i quite enjoy it, not that im a wind up but more its interesting and i love watching people to see what the do and how they cope ( its the scientist in me im afraid). but some people do get a bit much and it isnt always wise to quote religious texts as it can be seen as preaching and winds up a lot of people. i probably sound quite contradictory and all over the place but i say what i mean and i mean what i say. :)
       
      #125 silveraura, Apr 19, 2011
    6. Sorry, I didn't read the whole thread, just the first and last page. I actually have more to say on the religious undertones than the actual debate at hand so I'll keep this brief and just stick to the debate :lol:

      I believe in *a* almighty being or a *group* of almighty beings, who may or may not have had a hand in creating our world. I also veer quite closely to Wicca/Paganism but I still do not believe my dolls have souls. They simply can't. I have an emotional attachment to them, but since they are not living they have no spirit. They are not living because they lack the fundamental scientific elements in order to live, for example the need to breathe and eat etc. Even plants 'eat', by taking up nutrients from soil, but dolls do not. I do not believe they can be a vessel for a spirit because they are not designed to house one - living beings can, in my opinion, but non-living things cannot.

      I would fully support the theory that a living being or, as someone in the first page mentioned, a man-made artifically intelligent self-aware being (like Data from Star Trek) could be a vessel for a wandering soul, but not a doll. I do think it's a lovely idea, and I would like to think that my dolls have thoughts, feelings and emotions that come from spirits within their physical shells but.. that's as far as I can think of it I'm afraid. But that's just my personal stance, as with all things once you throw theology into the mix it can all get a bit confusing X3 I wouldn't even go as far as to say that I'd completely disregard the idea of dolls having spirits, just that I'd need a little bit of actual evidence for it before I believe it.

      And that was me keeping it short... oh dear :sweat :lol:
       
      #126 Ehryn, Apr 19, 2011
    7. True. Especially when talking about souls, because even though most religions do use the word "soul", almost every faith has a different definition of what it is.
      It's like translating the Greek word "agape" for "love" and expecting to keep having a clear discussion, even though the Greek have many more words to describe "love". (although, in that case, they are all aspects of the same emotion, whereas with the word "soul", one definition has nothing in common with the other)
       
      #127 Silk, Apr 19, 2011
    8. I believe everything has a soul, but the development of that soul makes the big difference. Not to sound nutter butters to all those who have no animistic views, but I have felt the life in springs and rocks, and even cement. We as humans simply add to, and shape the souls inherent in creation. Thus, If a doll was melted down tomarow, I belive that the soul would go back to it's original state, a kind of dreamless sleep, which is the same state that the Resin was in before the doll was made... perhaps, if the doll was VERY loved, it will retain a sort of pain from it's loss that it did not have before, but, in essence, will return to it's natural, sleeping state.
      I also believe statues can, and DO have higher developed souls, and can still act as vessels to wandering spirits. The work does not have to be original, otherwise, making statues to house a part of the spirit of different gods would be useless... A.K.A. Idols.

      to clarify, the difference between humans and inanimate objects is wakefulness. Inanimant objects can have different levels of wakefulness depending on different circumstances. Humans can impart wakefullness on objects, making them more 'alive'

      To be realy lame and quote Pocahontas: "I know every rock and tree and creature Has a life, has a spirit, has a name" *I was a hippy type, nature freak as a child and this song moved me to tears back in the day* :sweat
       
      #128 pinkbunnygirlmoo, Apr 21, 2011
    9. Seconding this. (I loved that movie, even if it did bastardize history) Xd

      On the subject of souls, -I think there's another debate about this elsewhere too- I don't really believe my dolls have a soul, just a sort of... essence you know? Like an invisible residue caused by my attachment to them and the characters I've given the that makes them instantly familiar to me, no matter how they look or where they are. If their resin was melted down, I could always get another -different- doll and feel a different sort of essence emerge, but nothing would bring back the original. The uniqueness of that essence would be gone. That however, has nothing (overt anyway) to do with my religious beliefs! My dolls and my beliefs are mutually exclusive, save for where my own personal morality (which has to some extent been influenced by religion (need to change my previous post now) interferes ^__^).
       
      #129 Teruchan, Apr 21, 2011
    10. A soul is energy, the universe is made of energy so anything and everything around us in one way or another emits or absorbs energy thus it has a soul.

      That's basically the way I see it. Everything has energy. Some more than others. And I believe humans have an exceptional amount of the stuff. And when we take the time to create something, it is infused with our energy, or spirit. So something like a doll, who was sculpted to the makers ideals of perfection, and then casted in resin, then sanded, strung by elastic, possibly painted, and sent to it's new owner, who furthers the process by adding their own creative and expressive energy to it, probably has a little more of this spirit energy put into it than say, a rock, or a table, or even a favorite shirt. For some reason these dolls give off a vibe that makes them more cherished than your every day object. I think it's all the good, creative, and expressive energy put into them by humans.

      I've always been the sentimental type, and hated tossing older toys as a child. I still have my very first plushie to this day, though it's worse for the wear now. I just can't get rid of it. It has too many good memories, and is infused with so much good energy that I'd be sad to see it go. I was kind of surprised to hear about that ceremony japan has, the one one where people gather their old dolls, and burn them, as a goodbye, releasing their energy. It's kind of admitting that universal thought that some objects are special. But in which way? Is it energy? aura? spirit? A soul? Somewhere else, a long time ago, I read that the chinese believe it brings good fortune to take care of a doll, because they harbor a soul. I wonder what causes people to believe or do these things.

      This doesn't mean that I feel like I have to talk to my doll, or feel like I owe it attention, or have to spoil it and take it places. Even though I'm guilty of talking to it, feel bad when I do neglect it, and think it's fun to take them out to meets and such. It easily has a special place in my heart compared to like, my computer, or car, which can be replaced, without me being sad about it.. But it isn't a priority over a family member, a friend, or a pet. Even though I don't expect the doll to move, or talk, or do anything at all other than sit there and make me smirk, I think we can all agree that there is something different about our little resin friends.
       
      #130 Novae, Apr 25, 2011
    11. For me, I was highly moved my the movie Toy Story as a kid and most recently the anime Rozen Maiden (which I wonder how many people in this forum have actually seen but that's another thread for another time). Now I realize that the dolls (as far as we know) do not move or anything, but I believe there is a level of heart given to every doll and toy by their creator and owner. If you spend some time with something it will grow on you and the makers of these dolls put a lot of time and effort into their creation so I believe that they have a version of that persons soul in whatever they make. This doesn't necessarily give them life but defines them for what they are; dolls. Inanimate? More than likely. Soulless? I don't think so. I think they retain a but of what's put into them, whether it be work or affection. And this is coming from a guy who has a pretty strong belief in the Christian faith.
       
      #131 chromegadget, Apr 26, 2011
    12. Wow, this has been really interesting to read - especially because everyone's been respectful of each other.
      For me - dolls don't have souls. Energy or a "personality", yes. I'm kind of sentimental about toys and stuffed animals. Sometimes it's like they collect the energy or emotions that's put on them, especially if they're played with a lot.
      There's a part of the novel A Little Princess, where Sara says that she pretends to believe that her doll is alive. It's not that Sara thinks that her doll is actually alive; she just pretends that she does so that her imagination can carry on at greater length. (personally I feel a little less self-conscious talking to a doll if I pretend that he/she/it is alive and could answer back) Part of the fun of owning these dolls for me is creating their personality, having conversations with their characters in my head and sometimes writing it down.
      As for my religious background, I was raised Christian (Episcopalian school, Baptist parents), but I've found as I explore other religions/spiritual paths, that Christianity doesn't seem to "fit" me well. I think that there exists a higher power, but I'm not sure about the details (such as if Earth is the only harborer of intelligent life, is this power present in all things, etc). I'm inclined to believe in reincarnation and I do believe that animals can have souls. This is my perception of spirituality/religion as it applies to me.
      I've heard of the Japanese ceremonies for "retiring" tools and things but I like knowing there's a ceremony for toys too.
       
      #132 xyzKitty, Apr 26, 2011
    13. Well yes in fact, there is a huge barrier for me and this hobby. I haven't owned a doll yet. But I am seriously having my doubts about owning one! I am of Christian faith, so I do not believe in religion. I've yet to put a verse down (put it down later), but because I am hesitant to buy a doll, the Bible says not to get caught up in the things of the world and instead, spend my hard earned money on the things I need. It makes sense. Eventually I know I am going to let this hobby go because I will grow out of it. It always happens. I think some things are a phase for me.

      I think God has given the wisdom to man to make these cool dolls. But to make a ceremony to worship the dolls have gone too far. They do not have souls, are inanimate and lifeless and are made by man.

      EDIT: Here it is! Romans 12:2
      "Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect."

      There are other verses here about having a hobby here not just necessarily dolls. http://www.openbible.info/topics/hobbies
       
      #133 Grapes, Apr 26, 2011
    14. Hear hear.

      I haven't read the entirety of the thread, but that truly caught my eye.

      Like you I have spent a great deal of time studying the religions of the present and the past. It's fascinating how many of the basic threads and themes are shared by ALL religions through the ages. Many of the specific tales are shared and/or repeated, but attributed to different individuals in different circumstances (sometimes even in the same holy book!). This is natural - it's the way human beings have always kept what is important to them through the centuries -- orally and in story form. The stories change with the telling and to suit the audience of the time, but the core elements and the meanings don't change. That, to me, says that no one religion has a corner on the market of truth, and there might be one god or many. Or none! We might all, in actuality, be simply trying to put into words the feelings of awe that come with just pondering life itself. But by and large, at their base all of the world's religions are telling us to be respectful of and helpful to each other; to conduct ourselves with dignity towards all living beings; and to respect the earth and the joy of repeating life.

      Having said all that, I also know with a certainty that nobody presently alive knows what the actual truth is. In fact, it seems to me an abundance of arrogance for anyone to say "God says: [insert whatever here]" because we can't possibly know that -- we are neither gods nor, in many cases, even very well-informed humans. What I do know is that I don't know for sure. Neither do you. All of us could be just as wrong as can be. :) (ETA: and when we rely on written holy books, we are relying on someone's written interpretation of events that has been translated and retranslated over centuries, by fallible human beings. And explained to us by even more fallible human beings. Meaning is almost always lost in translation; and sometimes purposefully so by unscrupulous human beings trying to take advantage of others' honest and heart-felt good will.)

      For that reason, while I look at my dolls as pieces of resin, wonderful playthings, works of art -- and while I know they are not "alive" in the way we usually define life, I treasure the feelings of individuality I get from them. They FEEL like they are real, to me, sometimes -- in the same way that ancient shamans used to "be" the animal or being they portrayed, for the moment, even though everyone knew with their rational minds that it was really Joe Down The Street wearing a mask.

      The dolls are dolls; but it seems to me that they also are representations of some creative power, whether you attribute it to the molecular attraction that holds the materials together, the artist who sculpted the "idea." the craftsman who mixed and poured the resin, the artist who painted the face, or yourself for your individual choices of what to do with the finished product. And marvelling at the creative powers around us is, as far as I can tell, about as basic to religion as it gets :).

      Your mileage may vary. A lot, even :). It's all good.
       
      #134 Baakay, Apr 26, 2011
    15. @Grapes Okay, not picking on you, but I'm curious. How can you be a Christian and not believe in religion? I guess I'm not sure if you're trying to say you don't accept other religions or ?
       
      #135 mosaicwolf, Apr 26, 2011
    16. Would you mind clarifying the first part of your post? If you are of Christian faith, surely you do believe in religion- the religion of Christianity?

      As for the ceremony for worshipping dolls, I haven't heard of any like that, but I know in Japan they have rituals for bonding and the "birth" of a doll. If anyone had any more info about this I'd be very interested ^^ But that is a religion that believes in animism: the idea that everything has a soul. To quote Pocahontas: "I know every rock and tree and creature has a life, has a spirit, has a name". Hehe, sorry non-Disney fans :D To me as an atheist, this idea has just the same validity as the idea that only people have souls.

      You could also refer to the Bible verse about it being easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into Heaven :) However, most doll owners aren't rich- rather, they sacrifice buying other things in order to pay for dolls. Speaking for myself, I rarely buy things like alcohol or go out to dinner or buy designer clothes, simply because I'd rather save up that money for a doll. I'm not rich by any means, but if you only spend money on "things you need", that rather limits your spending. You could live off bread and water, but you buy other foodstuffs because you like them. Therefore, you're already spending money on frivolous things.

      What I'm trying to say is, something like 20 steak dinners + two designer jeans + five movie tickets + ten bottles of wine = one doll! So it's just a case of going without something, to get something you want more.

      ETA: Oh God, I've just seen someone else has previously quoted Pocahontas :D um, well.... great minds think alike? XD
       
      #136 Harlequin-Elle, Apr 26, 2011
    17. I have to think that Grapes either just mistyped or didn't quite finish his/her thought on that first part. Given that Chrisitianity IS one of the world's current big religions. Ya know... ;)

      I don't see anything in that passage, btw, that says "thou shalt not buy a bjd." It just says "don't be a lemming and do things just because everyone else does." Even the world's great religious leaders had to have *things,* after all. It tells you to keep testing the stuff of life in your own mind. If it's not right for you, then it just isn't! And nobody should look down on you for that.
       
      #137 Baakay, Apr 26, 2011
    18. Though I'm not Grapes and don't know for sure what she means with what she wrote, I'd like to add that I am a Christian who believes in the faith, but not the religion. It's because 'religion' is mixed with politics and man-made dogmas. It has nothing to do with what the Bible says and everything with ego, a desire to dominate and greed.

      'Religion' is what caused the crusades: it wasn't about doing God's will. It was about people abusing His name so they could steal land that wasn't theirs to take. 'Religion' is also causing dogmas like: "you can't have a nose-piercing or enjoy life, you damned sinner." They don't come from the Bible, they come from people trying to control others. Jesus probably couldn't care less if I dyed my hair pink or not, He's more interested in who I am as a person.

      So yeah, I am a follower of Jesus and I practice Christian faith, but I detest religion, 'cause it destroys too much. Like the communists said: religion is poison. I'd like to add: faith is life.


      @Grapes: sending you a PM.
       
      #138 Silk, Apr 26, 2011
    19. Thanks for this, it's very illuminating :) and an interesting way of looking at things. I feel that way about Jesus, I suppose, without having either religion or faith. In other words, I believe he was a very admirable person who said and practised a great many wonderful and revolutionary things, and his is an example we'd do very well to follow (ie. not being judgemental, seeing good in everybody, being forgiving and magnanimous, etc). But I don't believe in God. Therefore I don't believe he was God's son.
      One thing I do believe, though, is that having belief in God, gods, a Goddess or whatever you like, gives a certain strength and comfort to some people, so it's right for them. For others though, such as myself, it's simply not the way it works. So as religion isn't for everyone, faith isn't for everyone either. So maybe faith is life, but for me, life isn't faith.
      Aaaaand veers wildly off-topic :D
       
      #139 Harlequin-Elle, Apr 26, 2011
    20. To add to the off-topicness: I agree. Faith is life for me, but that doesn't mean everybody should feel the same way.
       
      #140 Silk, Apr 26, 2011
Page 7 of 13