religion and your views on your dolls.

The ceremony I was referring to was the one that Sukeban posted (it's post 59). It's a funeral/retirement type ceremony. I see that as kind of akin to the flag burning ritual that is practiced when a US flag is too worn out to be flown anymore. It's a solemn thing, respecting the item and the symbolism behind it. I could see a doll/toy version of this could be really helpful to an individual, especially if they're very sentimental about that item and it's just too worn out to fix or keep.

 

Ah ok let me clarify ahemhem lol.

Here with religion, my opinion is in this section people do good deeds, "bad people becoming good people - that's religion."
Christianity is however being alive in Christ. I think that was more confusing. Sorry!

Of course I am not forcing anyone to believe what my opinions are and what I am saying. Likewise, everyone has the choice to choose what they want to hear and what they don't. In my situation, with how expensive bjds are, I think I could give some money to those in need instead of what I want or need.

 

Grapes: Ah, I see. You might be interested in this thread: http://www.denofangels.com/forums/showthread.php?435709-Having-a-doll-being-selfish it covers those kind of issues. That's something I struggle with myself- I feel I could be using the money to help people rather than buy a BJD. As I posted in that thread though, there are ways to come to terms with it.

 

Thank you very much for the link. Yes it is quite a struggle but I can overcome it!

 

I am one of the people you talked about, the ones who treat and see my doll as an inanimate object, despite naming it and whatnot. Dolls are different because they were made to be inanimate, and I see no reason to put a personality into the doll if there's plenty of people around me already. I just think dolls are cool, so I have them.

Likewise, I've named my computer (Perseus), plushies, and various other sorts of obviously inanimate things with no souls or personalities. It's the same with my dolls.

 

Silk, if you are referring to Marx, then the religion is not simply a poison. He wrote religion is the opium/opiate of the people, which implies more than simply poisoning. It is a painkiller, a dream-producing agent etc. But thinking further, what else is communism?
I agree with the fact that religion can destroy.
Also, having read your and Grapes' words, I am a bit confused and curious. I am not sure about the meaning of "faith" - being not a native English-speaker, I can only refer to the translation, which in German is a synonym to either "believing", "trust", or "religiousness" (depending on translation). Except for "trust", I don't see where it is different to "religion" (which describes both believing and religiousness). So what confuses me are the following: 1) is faith something that is exclusively Christian? And 2) how is it different to religion?
And from there back to the topic: given it is something different than religion, how does faith influence the view on dolls more or less (or differently) than - any, not just Christian - religion?

 

@Dollblue: I wasn't quoting Marx, I was referring to a communist I know who frequently says this (and a few atheists, now that I think of it )

As for the 'faith' and 'religion' thing: I don't really understand Grapes' explanation, so I will just focus on mine. I'm making a distinction between faith and religion, because religion will always try to add politics into the mix and they cannot be combined without changing the original intent of a believe-system.

It is not exclusive to Christians. The most current example is the islamic religion (don't know if this is the correct english word for it). Millions if not more people are peaceful followers of the way their Prophet has taught them and then there are a few who use the religion to oppress, to dominate and terrorize. But also Budism, Hinduism, paganism... you name it. I think that any believe can be prone to this. Even the most beautiful principal or idea can be twisted into something vicious if we use it for the wrong reasons.

So, when I'm talking about religion, I'm talking about a political system that uses a holy book, or principals of any faith to take power. I can only talk about Christian faith, but the bible and Jesus ask us too become humble, to serve others, to not take anything by force, but to 'turn the other cheek' so to speak.

In my book, faith and religion are opposites. Doesn't matter that they use the same principles at first glance.

EDIT: and I just can't explain things in one or two sentences. Sorry for the page-long post.

 

And as I said privately to Harlequin-Elle: that's what I was trying to spit out, as well. You two were far more succinct than I.

--- and yes. Beautiful, awesome thoughts from the great prophets of the world have always been prone to twisting by unscrupulous people out for what they see as "power." That's why the founders of the US, in spite of what some would tell us, believed in freedom to choose religion -- or NONE. Many of them were Christians but they were only a few generations removed from watching people be quite literally drawn and quartered for not belonging to the King's church in their homeland. They knew how destructive it can be if you mix religion and politics. That's why we have "Freedom of Religion" in the US -- which includes freedom FROM religion if the individual so chooses.

Smart men, they were.

Meanwhile, my little plastic representation of a thought, sitting on the table, is giving me evil looks for not putting his head back on, yet. *grin* How's that for veering back on topic suddenly?

 

I'm a Dianic witch, meaning my beliefs focus on feminism and goddess worship. Although Dianic is a denomination of Wicca, I do not follow the Wiccan principals or rede. Thus, I believe in the idea of souls, but not in the sense that everything is alive. Only flora and fauna have living souls that we feel as energy. I also believe that anything that was once, or still is, a beloved possession has obtained energy of some kind from the possessor of that object, but that object cannot produce it's own energy. Relating dolls to having souls is a type of animism; because dolls are made to resemble humans, it is easy for people to get the feeling that dolls are in a sense "alive".

BJD's are just tools for artistic release. Those of us who name our dolls and give them back stories, then turn around and call them inanimate are just doing what we know as normal.

 

@Rook I want a 'like' button for your post.

 

LOL! Thanks, mosaicwolf!

 

Well spoken @Rook.

 

I'll start by saying that I have not read very word of this thread but have skimmed over a lot of it. I find religious/spiritual debates very interesting and like to learn about other people's perspectives. I do not practice any organized religion but I do believe that we were created by a God or a Higher Power or whatever you might choose to call it. I believe that all living beings have souls. I do not believe that inanimate objects have souls. I do believe that some, but not all, souls live on after this life on earth. No, I cannot back up my beliefs with any facts, they are simply my beliefs. Whether or not you agree with my beliefs doesn't change them.
I don't believe that my dolls have souls because they are not alive. They have the personalities that I project onto them. While I may post that a doll "told" me her name or that their "personality" turned out to be different from what I thought I was going to be I believe that those things come from my subconscious mind, not actually from the doll.
I don't really know to put this next part into words to adequately explain my feelings but I will try: I am an artist at heart and do believe that I put a bit of myself into everything that I create whether it be a scrapbook page, a birthday cake, a dress I've sewn, or a custom doll. I got into dolls at a very low point in my life- I was in constant pain, spent most of my time in bed, and was depressed because of it. I didn't know how much longer I would live because I simply couldn't conceive of spending years and years feeling that way. Having dolls to customize and dress and looking at doll boards and online stores on my laptop gave me something to occupy my mind when I was too ill to leave my house and simply looking at my beautiful dolls brought me comfort when I was too ill to leave my bed. I bought my first doll the same day that my first granddaughter was born. I had it in my mind that, if I died while my granddaughters were still to young to actually remember me, the dolls that I customized and loved would somehow be a part of me that I could leave for them. I suppose some people might consider that giving my dolls souls.
I am happy to report that I have since been diagnosed with fibromyalgia and am receiving treatment for it. I am enjoying life and sharing my dolls with my granddaughters and hope to do so for many years to come.

 

I feel that when I give a doll a name I give it the energy to become a personality. But as far as soul goes, I don´t believe a material thing can have a soul. So I would say my dolls have personality, but since they are not alive, they cannot have a soul. So a bit like Rook said (at least I hope I understood her meaning).

 

Hmm. This is a very tough question and one i thought on even before coming across this thread.
Do inanimate object's have soul's?. I too am of a wiccan religion , tho i dont follow everything to the textbook
but i do believe a bjd can have its own soul, after all, each person that went into making a bjd, would have surely left a part of him/herself behind, unconsciously, same could be said with each wig they wear or eyes they see through. they may not feel or think, but does that mean they arent alive? we only base being alive on our own opinions or beliefs, of what 'alive' is. But how can we be sure there isnt more then meets the eye. I believe mother nature exists in the context that air & water is alive, dirt and rock is alive, they are teeming with life, yet we cannot simply see it. Some people think animals have no souls, and others think plants have no souls, yet science is proving otherwise.
I am certain tho , that there is history and a story to tell, within each bjd, just like any inanimate object, but we as a human species, are far too unevolved yet to grasp & accept such notions and idea's. Even as children, we think our toys are alive, well some of us, perhaps not all, I do remember feeling guilt if i would neglect one toy, or missing terribly another toy from my childhood. It's also said our thought is capable of producing anything, that in the future, if we as a race, made it so far, would be capable of thinking things into reality, a 'i think, therefore it is' sort of thing. But well just my opinion.. i think we are all free to think and feel about the bjd and anything else, whatever we wish. Im sure my babble made no sense to any who read it xD buts its past midnight, so please forgive me xD

 

Perhaps 'spirituality' would be a better word to consider... You can have faith in lots of things... faith in you parents, faith in your teachers, and faith in your government just to name a few, so to say 'faith is different then religion, because religion is political. becomes a misnomer.

 

Having seen for myself that things can and do latch onto things, not necessarily to a doll, but you get my drift, I am careful where I take my dolls.

I am Episcopalian, but I don't think my religious persuasion makes me think of my dolls any different. To me, they are precious and I am one of those owners who look on my dolls as, at least somewhat, my children. This makes me careful of how I treat them and where I take them.

 

I have my own belivings, that have changed through time and will evolve the same way I will grow old.
If someone shares some, good for you, if not, good for you too.

In my opinion, everything handmade, even if it is only the desing for a mashine made product, has part of the soul of its creator. It has a spirit of its own. Some things may have more spirit than other, because the effort put into them was bigger. But everytime you creat somthing, be it coocking a meal, drawing a painting or desning a pigpong ball, you give that object a purpous, you put your energie into it, you dedicate part of youselfe to it, and therfor you give them a certain live, and for sure (at least for me) a soul and a spirit.
That spirit/soul may grow, depending on how you treat the objekt, what the thing "expiriances" in it's existance.
A doll, for once, is definitively a thing with a big soul. It starts while creating it, then while personalizing it, and if you sell that doll to a second owner, the proces will continue.
In the end you will have an objekt with a big, wise soul.
That I'm not capable of understanding said object, or the things said objects soul would like to tell me, is no reason for it to be dead and soulless.
Only because the human beeing does not know about it, doesen't mean it does not exist, or it is not posible.
Everything is energie, us included.

If it made any sense too you, I'm happy. If not, sorry for rambling.

 

Personally, I don't believe that religion has anything to do with dolls. I'm a Lutheran Christian fwiw. In some cultures, I'm sure dolls are seen as "vessels", which I'm fine if people believe that. I do not. I agree with Rook on most points: that you can put energy into something, but that doesn't mean it has a soul.

However, I think all living things have some sort of spirit (plants and animals), but only humans have a soul. We are the only creatures on this planet that can distinguish right from wrong, and understand truth and justice. In other words, put more simply, we have a conscience. That is what makes us special and distinguishes humans from everything else, in my opinion. Dolls are made by man, we don't have the power to endow something with a spirit or soul, but I think we can attach emotions (positive/negative/neutral) to objects, whether it be a teddy bear, (can of soup from earlier lol), Power Ranger figure, or a BJD. I think we feel the emotions we placed on the object (for example, if your doll makes you happy) based on the experiences you have had with it, not because it's radiating an emotion or has a soul/spirit.

I just want to be safe and say that I don't mean to offend anyone. I respect everyone's opinions and beliefs, even if they are different from my own

 

Well, no. I believe 'faith' is the correct word. When I have faith in my parents it is because I believe they're there (they exist and are there for me) and I trust them. When I have faith in my government it's because I trust them and are able to make a difference, because they are not some faraway notion or idea, but a physical presence. I have faith in God for the same reason. I think He guides me and I trust Him, despite all the things that happened in my life and in the world around me that I don't understand. I don't need to, because me trusting Him was a decision.

Spirituality is somewhat vague term, especially when the modern meaning or feel is attached to it. In the Netherlands at least, has become a one-on-one with the search for 'happiness', the book 'The Secret' and a mix of different aspects from different religions that suits you best.
If I should believe the women magazines, I severly lack any spirituality, despite my being a christian. Spirituality, it seems, has become a believe-system in itself. So that's why I avoided that word.