Religious BJDs - character and clothing

I like to at least think about what the religious feelings of my dolls' characters would be. As far as how to portray that, I have it easy in a way because I have no desire to create characters who are actually priests/druids/monks/prophets/deities/etc. My dolls who are religious will end up being average observers of their various sects, so while they will prompt me to do a fair bit of research (in order to portray their observances correctly, if need be), there shouldn't really be any potential for offense. Obviously, people have the prerogative to portray their dolls in any controversial manner they wish, but if someone does something tactless they shouldn't be surprised if somebody takes offense to it.

 

In my opinion there isn't anything wrong with it as long as it is not being done as a deliberate insult... That said, I would still be cautious if I was dressing my dolls in any type of religious clothing because it could potentially be taken as very offensive, especially outside the hobby.

 

I was going to give the blanket statement of "If it's in the doll's character to have a religious bent, it's okay" but then I thought about it some more. If it's okay if it's in the doll's character to be religious, then is the opposite true? Is it okay if if the doll's character is a militant atheist, or even openly mocking of other religions?

In that case, I could not support my initial blanket statement, and I'd have to say a doll's religious accessories and presentation would have to be judged on a case by case basis.

I have a doll character that is somewhat in that situation now. Xavier isn't particularly observant now, but some of the beliefs and cultural reflexes he had been indoctrinated in childhood and adolesence has stuck with him. Heck, in his former life he was a Spanish conquistador, and that should give one a pretty good idea what his religious bent is and just how totally politically inicorrect he is.

He still has a tendency to filter and process the world around him in a more spiritual way than his more secular 21st century crewmates, occasionally putting them at odds. "African-American" is too much of a tongue twister for him so he calls them all "Moors" instead (that's a step up from "esclavitud," which he was using until someone hit him). He occassionally drops politically incorrect opinions about Jews that will bring conversations to a screeching halt. His attitude towards women is, well, medieval. Protestants are strange at the mildest and heretics at the worst.

These beliefs and cultural mores were completely acceptable for the time he grew up in, the early 1500s. Now that he's living in 21st century America (Cliff Notes Version: time warp), he's about as socially acceptable as a fart at a funeral. He's slowly learning differently, but it's not a process that happens overnight.

I have no intention of softening his character or background for the sake of politeness. I know he's a pretty offensive character, and I'm sure there are things that a lot of people here can find objectionable. He's racist, sexist, and anti-Semetic, and it's part of who he is. Does that necessarily mean it's right, objectively? Absolutely not.

I cannot apply the blanket statement that "It's okay if it's in the doll's character." The presentation and the doll character's history should be judged on a case-by-case basis, and I'd certainly weigh how much of Xavier's characterization I would want to present to the general public on DoA or at meet-ups.

(Why would I make a character like this? Because perfect, flawless characters are not interesting to me. Minor "flaws" like overeating aren't very fun to me either when I'm writing and especially when I'm roleplaying. The quirkier and more outrageous, the better.)

 

I tend to agree, with the above statement. It is hard to be objective about our dolls, sense we love them all, but it might mean being more conservative about them when u r out with them rather than just letting it all hang out sort to speak.

 

s0yuz, that was an awesome point you brought up. ^^ I think it's totally chill to have a religiously "skewed" character if you will, just, you know, one should be tactful in how they present him or her; it should never come across as a personal attack to an individual or group, and like s0yuz implied, if you think it may just come across as offensive and stir up unwanted fuss, keep the dirtier details of your dolly's character on the DL. No one likes seeing their belief system bashed, least of all by dolls I'm sure. >___<;;;

For the record though s0yuz, your Xavier sounds like a super-awesome and interesting, well-developed character who totally fits his day and age!!! And although he's just accurate for his time period, I think it's really sweet of you that you take into consideration how his archaic mannerisms might make others feel---so props to you. [And by the way, if you DID do a photoshoot of him in crusader garb...yeah. Heck yes please. That would be endlessly cool. xD]

 

Hee, thanks! Believe me, I really do want to find him some period-accurate garb, but I'm agonizing over paying for a commission and putting off a downpayment for Unidoll Ark for yet another month or two. One of these days, I'm sure I'll do it though.

His backstory was inspired by a chess set my brother bought for me when he went down to Peru on vacation. The chess pieces are Inca warriors and conquistadors. But I knew if I wanted Xavier to be accurate to his time period, he was going to come with a whole lot of cultural biases and bigotry with a great deal of potential offensiveness. Hence my arguement above that a blanket statement of "It's okay if it's in the doll's character" is insufficient.

 

I don't own a doll *yet* but I've seen pictures of religious dolls before! And they were appropriately dressed.

 

..I say just have fun with your doll, be it a Buddhist or Christian...who cares? As long as it is done with love and fun, do it!

..okay....I just asked my vampire doll, Louis what religion he is, he just glared at me..LOL.

 

i am loving this topic, everyone has such diverse ideas and i am loooving sucking up all the different points of view.

In my opinion, it really doesn't matter. They're your dolls and you do what you want. If I wanted to make a muslim, a mormon, my own version of the pope, a hasidic, a hindi, and a kemetic, or even jesus, isis, mohammad, john the baptist, moses, abraham, siddhartha (please tell me if im misspelling that) satan, kali and thor i would do so to the best and most accurate of my abilities, and be proud of doing so.
To me, it wouldnt feel as though the character was true unless i went that far, kinda like in another debate thread about circumcision. Some religions call for it and some are against it and if i had my rainbow pantheon listed above, i'd probably take it to that level, too.

In the end, it's about the owner's comfort level and not anybody else's.
Now, because DOA is a forum that calls for friendliness and politeness, then obviously, it'd be inappropriate to post pictures or a photostory without posting a warning if you posted at all.

If a person, especially on the internet, is offended by a doll, they can simply close the window and decide not to look at that or something similar to it. i know i find some things offensive, even in the dolly community, when it comes to religious stereotypes, assumptions, or inaccuracies but i accept that it's really not anybody's problem and it's what the owner wants.

I think in that way we can avoid confrontation by remembering not to be offensive to the owner/artist and also avoid being upset ourselves.

 

I had a similar question--saw some beads at a craft store that were donuts and cupcakes--thought hey, those would be cool in a funky rosary. I happen to be a christian but not a catholic christian (make sense???) and ulitmately thought that it would be offensive to others..I guess for me if I didn't post the pics of it on the web I would feel okay about it but in the end I decided against it.

 

All organised religions suck, so a bit of dress-up is ok, surely? Maybe we should all stop worring about religion, and start thinking with our higher brains and save this 'god'damned planet, phew,

 

uhm, ouch! that was a bit harsh, no?

 

I agree with snowycolumbia - organised religion has a seriously warped side. I don't think the statement was harsh - it's true in a lot of respects.

 

Professional sports fans too can have a seriously warped side, but I don't see anyone calling them on it in this thread. And if I may be so bold, let me remind folks that secular dictators like Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao Tse-tung were pretty warped too. Besides, isn't discussing religion in general, rather than how religion specifically relates to doll characters off-topic?

 

Yes, discussion of religion in general, rather than how it can pertain to BJDs, is DEFINITELY off topic to this thread, and attacks on religion will not be tolerated on DoA. Comments similar to snowycolumbia's are entering the realm of flaming; disrespectful statements like that will get the offending member's access to the Debate subforum removed.

We are here to discuss and debate like adults. If you can't keep your discussion on topic and respectful, please stay out. Thank you.

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to upset anyone, although I seem to excel at it.
I actually agree with s0yuz on sports fans (I am a football fan but am mature enough to see our reputation from both sides) and secular dictators, but as this is a thread on religious bjd clothing I kept my post short and stuck to the religious theme.

I replied in agreement because I didn't think snowy's post was so off topic, I kind of saw it that organised religion is having a hard enough time as it is without people worrying about doll clothing, maybe mine and snowy's speech was too blunt... I pointed out that religion has a very dark side; which is true, just read a history book or a newspaper.

p.s I don't think it's immature or disrespectful to express an opinion that highlights a proven negative or valid opposition regarding a subject, I thought that was the core of debating?

 

Absolutely I agree with other posters here who say it isn't anybody else's business how somebody dresses their doll.

That said, it perturbs me just a bit when I see folks using pieces/parts of rosaries to make jewelry for their dolls, since rosaries are an aid for prayer and not toy jewelry for dolls. I wonder how those whose faith practices include rosaries feel about it.

Again, this is a thought personal to be and not to be considered an attack on anybody else.

 

I agree with most of the post that this is not a religious statement it is dressing your doll as you like. I find no offense in the way dolls are dressed (well maybe too many ruffles lol) but it is an individual choice.

 

Just as a thought: All of history has a dark side to it. So dose all humanity. Usually done in the name of a person/religion/idea ect. It's how people apply it that makes things good or bad.

Has anybody done Adam and Eve? I think they would have the easiest outfits to make....

We say religious clothes but they are also culture. If I were to have a doll that was a monk, it would be because I like how they dress in that area of the world. Dolls are just pretty objects, with no brains and can't have an idea/religion/opinion on anything. Their heads are kinda empty except for the s-hook, eyes and putty. Or if you stash something extra in there.

 

As someone who has studied world religion, I don't think that anyone should be making presumptuous comments about wether it can be "warped" or "bad". Religion is created and interpreted by humans, and so humans are the only ones at fault.

I don't see the problem with it. I've actually been considering making a doll to be a Jainist monk, I've always loved the idea of ahimsa and the way that they live their lives abiding to it. I think it would be an interesting experience.