Religious BJDs - character and clothing

Shivi- I wouldn't call hinduism little known *laugh* it's quite large and very well known and has a very close relationship with buddhism.

I can't say that I feel that people forget what religion is but rather have different interpretations. I personally feel that just like people dolls can be religious. Many "fantasy" elements of todays society were once a bound part of religion of a certian time.

 

I myself am an Athiest.
I don't have problems at all with other religions, even when it comes to dolls i'm not at all offended if their dressed in religious outfits. I'm more offended to see damanged dolls to be honest. >.<
I mean, If the whole gallary forum turned into being mostly religious type posts i'd consider that somewhat unfair, since I believe in equality and this isn't a religious forum...but the post would have to go a lot farthur than beyond what the dolls are wearing. So long as no ones pushing religion at anyone it doesn't bother me.

 

I'm Pagan and well I don't have any problems with what people do as long as they remember its for the dolls and not for the religion.

 

I'm thinking they meant more like 'understood' than 'known'. As for me, I'm an atheist and dress my doll up in Satanic attire every once in a while to bother my family (who already dislike her anyway )

 

I fully intend on not only having religious clothing, but jewelry and even tattoos for my doll once he's in my possession (just a couple more months!).

I myself am Kemetic, which is to say I follow a modern pagan religion based on the spiritual beliefs of the ancient Egyptian civilization. The history of the ancient Egyptians ranged over a course of thousands of years, and the religious clothing, methods of worship, temple practices, etc. changed and evolved over these thousands of years.

I plan on adopting my doll to use as a teaching tool. These clothes won't be his regular clothing, but it is easier to take photographs of him than it would be to try to take them of myself (not to mention I hate being in pictures... ). His character story background will have him being a Kemetic as well. It will enable me to make costumes both based on historical accuracy and modern interpretation. I'm personally looking forward to it.

And if I took offense of seeing things from my religion being used on dolls, or other people, who don't understand the spiritual significance behind it, I'd be screwed. I have seen several people with dolls or themselves wearing jewelry of ankhs, udjats (the eyes), etc. Besides, even if I did take offense, what would it matter? It's not as though I (or anyone else) could demand that you change the doll's clothing. And in my opinion, it would be foolish to make such a demand anyway.

So, to each their own. I personally enjoy seeing dolls dressed in religious clothing, especially when there's a story behind it. Having visuals to demonstrate what you've learned by your research to make such clothes, it catches the attention more than the words alone. Much like the way the ancients of many civilizations did. They would normally have illustrations showing the story, as well as the words to explain it. It's only been in the last few centuries that this has largely fallen out of style, but is slowly starting to come back again.

 

I don't have any dolls in any particularly religious clothing.

However, one of my dolls is a Greek Incubus and worships the Olympians. However, he has a tattoo of a Solomon Seal to protect against being summoned/possessed. He's not Jewish or Christian, so some people could possibly be offended by that. That said, I of course did not do that to intentionally offend anyone. It was simply a character necessity.

 

Dolls are--as much as anything else--about fantasy play. We fantasize about their persona's, their backstories, their trials and lives in general as characters--and reflect these characterizations in the dolls' clothing, hair and other customizations.

If you look objectively at religion, it's social parable passed on by retelling stories about characters as well. Religion is driven by character based narrative.

Therefore, I see no reason that iconic garb that represents the different religions can't be absorbed into the narratives we develop for our dolls. For that matter, I see no problem borrowing the religious figures themselves.

Why not to have a Jesus doll or a Buddha doll or a Muhamed doll or Allah even. Heck, Michealangelo represented the Christian God in literal form in paintings on occasion. I'd love to see that done in a BJD. Or any other deity, really. (anyone up for a Holy Virgin?)

We don't wince that much at seeing a Zues or a Hades--why stop there?

 

I think that a doll should be able to wear whatever they want, it's no ones business but your own, but i wouldn't suggest it due to the over the top religious people i find more often than the normals. I would be offended, not so much if the clothing was anti-christian, but if it made the doll 'a bad guy' because they were wearing that, or with any religion i the clothing made them 'bad'

 

I kind of agree with TacoNikki. I think it might be a problem if the doll in question was a bad guy because he was a certain religion... but that's a sticky situation as well. >_< I'm all for doing your own thing, but I might find it offensive if say, someone had more than one character that was a certain religion that was evil or "bad." I think a good example of this might be the Disney version of the Hunchback of Notre Dame. The main bishop (I think he was a bishop, forgive me) was certainly evil, but there was also another member of the church who was a really good guy. If your aim was to vilify a religion with your dolls (which I doubt anybody would do) than yes, I would have a problem with it. I think our members are more well-behaved than that.

 

I wouldn't have a problem with someone vilifying a religion through their dolls. It's no one's business.

Firstly, it's their doll--what they do with it is sheerly the domain of personal choice. Second, many folks tell stories with their dolls or their dolls represent characters in a story where all the members of a particular religious movement are the villains. I can think of several stories right off the top of my head where all (or nearly all) the members of a particular religion or sect ARE the badguys. The first one that comes to mind is The DaVinci Code. If anyone's dolls should represent members of the Catholic church from that story, they are by de facto vilifying the Catholic Church with their dolls--the story itself vilifies the church.

A decent example of this is also the second Indiana Jones move: The Temple of Doom. The bad guys in this were a Kali sect. All the members of that Kali sect were villains, so if you were to dress your dolls as Thuggee they would not only be representing villains but representing the vilification of said Kali worshipers.

Not only that, some people look at religions in a broader more abstract fashion--feeling that different religions represent certain archtypical human traits. Both good and bad. And if you feel that a particular religion represents negative archtypes, you are well within your rights to dress your villain dolls as members of that religion.

We are free to use our dolls as we please--whether the allegories we create make others comfortable or not. People need to get over it.

 

I think what I really have a problem with would be more towards spreading hate. I understand telling a story with your dolls like the Da Vinci code or something of that nature, but at what point does it become too far? People are very careful to keep from offending other races or sexual orientations, but there is often an attitude that religions are fair game. In both of your examples (so far as I can tell, I have not seen either movie/read the book) this is probably a group of people in the religion that all know each other. In the case of the Da Vinci code, I don't think they're trying to say that all Catholics are in their schemes. In the case of the other it's trickier, considering it's a cult. I looked it up on Wikipedia and it sounds like they were a murderous cult. If they're murdering and pillaging that definitely changes the question...

But, I don't tend to get riled over a certain religion. (So I probably fall into that category of caring less about religions as well...) In the end, I agree that I don't have a say in what other people do, and I don't want a say.

However, because of the religion I practice I often hear lots of mocking and jokes from the media and my peers and I usually think it's funny. (Just because I'm a Christian does not mean I'm a stick in the mud, I'm a cosplayer/crossplayer of the weekend. ) I'm not asking that no one ever make fun of or vilify a religion because in the end it's your choice, but I think you should have enough respect for other people to not deliberately try to insult them.

(I hope that all makes sense, I feel like it's a little scattered...)

 

Some religious clothes are very beautiful in nature. Though I wouldn't want to offend members of the religion, I would perhaps do this.

But if I saw a doll dressed like Jesus, I would laugh my ass off.

Sorry, Christians. But that would be bloody hilarious...

 

I guess this question might be addresed with "why" is the person doing it. Are they trying to be offensive? Are they making an artistic statement? Motivation is certainly a key factor here.

Personally (as well as a devout Catholic) Do what you want with your dolls, if it offends me, I'll choose not to look. Freud however, reminds us to examine closely whatever makes us uncomfortable to see if it is the image that makes us uneasy or our own thoughts and wishes.

Does the thought of a bare breasted female Pope with a mohawk make you angry or upset? I don't feel that another's actions or thoughts can degrade my beliefs, so it barely registers on the amused scale.

btw, I would love to see a Pope outfit, male or otherwise.

 

This would be interesting. Catholic and Episcopalian/Anglican vestments can be flat out gorgeous. I know this from personal experience because I've helped make them - my mother used to make vestments for our priest and I would work on the gold embroidery. It was a huge responsibility for a kid!

Now I'm getting ideas.

 

Just for the sake of argument/discussion, touching on both of these ideas: What if somebody made a BJD version of the famous 17th-century hysteria of the nuns of Loudun? Even if you don't take the same approach that Ken Russell did in his famously kinky film version ("The Devils"), it would still involve a whole pile of naked nun dolls blaspheming & crawling all over an already-badly-behaved priest dolly, & generally behaving rawther terribly en masse... and this being all based upon real events. The story seems to have any one of several "bad guys" (the mother superior, the priest, the exorcists) depending on the account you read, but nobody sounds really innocent.

Or, for another more famous example: What if someone undertook the Spanish Inquisition in BJD form? This being a well-known case of a lot of "bad guys" operating on behalf of the Church, indeed. Or, for something more personal & even more familiar to modern times: What about, say, the BJD depiction of the conversation between an adult & the priest who sexually abused him/her as a child?

How does one react to depictions of negative actions by the figures of one's own religion? That is to say: If one finds creating a "bad guy" doll character who dresses in religious garb to be too-offensive, what about the honest depiction of a real religious bad guy? Why would it be offensive to depict actual events/people? And by extension, why would it be offensive to create a "bad guy" whose crimes are both common & inspired by actual events?


[Note: All doll nudity/blasphemy/violence mentioned being purely theoretical, here, I'm nonetheless obliged to specify that I'm talking about such content as posted only on forums where it's appropriate/accepted - i.e. not here in PG13-land. ^^ It would be on an adults-only forum. But since it's rhetorical, just imagine it.]

Ol' Freud had his issues, but he also had some righteous talking points-- this is one of 'em! Encourage "critical viewing", being aware of what you're feeling as you see something, and then thinking about why you feel it.

You might be surprised. There is one very beautiful Jesus doll that I know of, a Soom Io in a crown of thorns, who's made an appearance on ControversialDoll.... He's far from hilarious. He's grave and suffering and radiantly-lit. Even speaking as a religion-free person, I think it's gorgeous.

 

I myself am a Christian, I'd like to get my doll a little bible and maybe a purity ring to match mine. I'm not sure. Maybe I'd make some Christian t-shirts for my doll as well now that I think about it. In my first photostory I did mention the significance of Christmas to Christians, I don't think theres a problem with it with any religion. In fact I think its very creative.

 

I would rather stay away from religious dolls all together, because i don't like the idea of making something that's supposed to be sacred into a plaything. I can't explain it really, it's just the way i feel. That's just my personal opinion.

I would definitely be offended though if someone had a doll that was a priest/nun who was corrupt. I know it's their doll, and of course they can do what they want with it, but i wouldn't appreciate it very much. I see it as blasphemous. I wouldn't want anyone to have a Jesus doll in the same way. I can't really say about other religions, because i'm a Christian and i haven't experienced them really, but i wouldn't want to own a doll of a sacred figure in another religion because i wouldn't want to offend someone else in the same way.

Now, the angel and demon dolls i don't mind so much. I guess mostly because they've sorta been secularized a little bit, and you could have an angel or demon character that wasn't attached to religion. In fact, i plan on getting a doll who is an oni.

I don't know if any of that made sense or not. n_n;

Edit: So i guess in short it would be okay to me for someone to have a doll whose character is a religious figure, as long as that character behaves appropriately. I realize i'm totally leaving reality out of the equation, because there have been plenty of corrupt religious figures in reality, but i think it would be disrespectful to depict them.

On an OT note, i love the movie Doubt. Does that make me a hypocrite? XD

 

I have a character who is a Catholic priest, who is NOT of the crooked, little-boy liking variety. Though people who want/have dolls to rip on, or otherwise make a mockery of a given religion don't bother me any. Whatever blows your hair back. I guess the only thing I'd warn against is waggling the offensive doll in a religious persons face. That's just asking for trouble. Not to mention rude.

 

honestly, i quiet enjoy the idea of religious dolls....i guess it's because of the influence of all the movies and TV series(which about priest and beautiful vamp.) stuff .maybe i'm just a bit naive after all.

 

Someday I'll have a pagan-themed doll.
I'm very religious in my tradition and I think it'd be cute to show it off.