Religious BJDs - character and clothing

I wouldn't be offended by anyone depicting 'religious' dolls a certain way. The only catholic priest I've ever known was a college dorm buddy of one of my uncles and I saw him drunk and stoned more often than sober. I guess one person's truth is another's trauma?

 

I think anyone who gets offended by a doll wearing a religious outfit, even in a blasphemous manner, needs to take a step back and realize-- it's just fantasy. It's just a doll. No one's forcing you to look at them, or play with them, in the same way no one's forcing you to watch movies or listen to music containing blasphemous themes. And in the same way (hopefully) you're not forcing anyone to watch, listen, or participate in your branch of religion.

There are so many other things going on in the world more deserving of our attention, worry and sense of scandal than a doll wearing both a nun habit and a pentagram, I think.

 

Just because you don't like someone else's doll wearing something, doesn't mean they shouldn't. It's really up to the viewer as to whether or not they are going to let something offend them. Not the one with the 'possibly offensive' doll. It seems to me that in a community such as, most of what would be considered sexually explicit (be there religious garments or not) isn't allowed here anyways so if you choose to be offended by a photo of a doll that is wearing a nun's habit, that sounds like your business. Not the doll owner.

It is not the place of anyone else to tell someone what their doll can or can not wear. The choice to be offended is yours and yours alone.

 

I've read through this thread and I have two almost separate trains of thought about this topic.

The first is; I wish there was just one place, forum, hobby, interest, on-line group etc where you could go and this was actually not an issue at all. I have no interest in religion and I guess I don't really want to have it intrude into my hobbies, especially my doll hobby, which I consider to be cute, fun, pleasurable escapism. All the things religion is not. I find it, not exactly offensive, but annoying, that religion is even bought into this sphere in a way. I don't like it that it gives people a 'gateway' to start using their own beliefs as a battering ram on others.

However, my second train of thinking is that I DO believe in freedom of speech so I believe anyone has a right to express themselves through their dolls in any way they wish. So if people do have that right then I guess it's 'no holds barred' and they can do whatever they want and portray whatever religious character they want in any way they want. You can't limit people to saying "OK, you can do this" but "No, you can't do that" based on what you want. Freedom of speech is choosing to say 'yes' to everything over choosing to say 'No' to only certain things, otherwise it's not freedom of speech.

So I guess my conclusion is do whatever you want with your dolls and back stories and dip into whatever religions you feel you want to use. In the end I'd be more offended by people telling you that you can't do that over the occasional annoying religious intrusion.

 

Its your doll, do what you like. I suppose so long as it doesn't outrightly offend a religion, it could be seen as respecting and acknowledging said religion, which can only be a good thing? In any case, I dont see an issue with it. Then again, im agnostic- so I dont know what to believe aha.

 

Nec Deus, Nec Dominus all the way with me. So no, I am not gonna be offended if you portray a religious doll, whether Buddhist, Shinto-Buddhist, Protestant, Catholic, Muslim, Jewish, Pagan, Wiccan, Ba'hai, Satanist, Hindu, or believing in a chicken god that lives under the kitchen sink and has smelly feet.

Now if you use it as a tool to proselytise me or shove your religion right in my face, then I will get offended and most irate about it.

Meanwhile, I will go out of my way to try not to offend those of religious convictions, even if I personally believe that there are no gods and that once we die that's it - we become worm food.

I was once a BAC, but because of my rather traumatic life I can simply no longer hold a belief in a merciful and loving god or gods along side my knowledge of how the world really is - I can sympathise with holocaust survivors who became atheists because even though I have not gone through anything like what they have gone through I can still understand exactly where they are coming from.

Phil.

 

I think we see a lot of "christian" religious types because asian EGL style has grasped onto those images. Kids in Japan want gothic lolita style clothing for their dolls, so its been in the market since inception. Its black, its somber, its cool. Because of that, I think its percieved as being more okay to have priests and nuns then to have other types of less commericalized religious figures.

 

How dare you blaspheme against the Sub-Sink-Chicken God? He shall smite you with his smelly talons of doom and put you in the recycling bin

The only thing that annoys me is when people get the religions kind of wrong... like, say they confuse one religion for another or something, or say they have the Sikh dagger (don't know its name- sorry) and, I dunno, a crucifix or something on the same doll? A kind of religious mix-and-match, picking the bits you like and ignoring the bits you don't. The same as with people, I think if you're going to make a character religious, do it whole-heartedly AND RESEARCH IT! Unless the character's kind of messed-up and you're doing it deliberately. But that's a different ball park.

Having said that, they're dolls, not real, so I guess it's up to the owner if they want to make the doll a Buddhist on Monday, Hindu on Wednesday, and Jewish every alternate Friday. In the end, it's the same with everything- it's up to you.

 

I personally don't mind what other people's dolls wear, religious or otherwise but personally wouldn't dress my dolls in official & / or traditional religious garb simply due to the offense it might cause others.

 

I had to look up the things mentioned in the original poster's question, and now I think it would be a great idea! I think it creates a whole new depth of charater for a BJD. I think that giving your doll a religion is a really fun idea; for some people, religious beliefs shape the actions people take in life. So if a doll has a religion, it allows others and even the owner a better chance of understanding them. I mean you don't have to go full religious garb. Maybe a cross, or a shirt can show a doll's attitude towards their religion. I now want to try this!

 

Also, I think it's kind of ok if you want a "bad", nun or priest. Thinking back in history, the Popes and Cardinals weren't so celibate, or traveling on the straight and narrow. They had sex and bastard kids. Mistresses of said holy men were kept in nunneries, I guess to keep them pure till they got to them? So even though we have very respectable clergymen and women now, it wasn't always like this.

To add: Doing what I mentioned to make some kind of negative statement towards a religion (like bashing) is definitely NOT cool with me. Even if I am not particularly 'devout' anymore, I still dislike religion bashing on either side. Bashing like that only makes things much worse. If your doll is going to play the role of "bad" Cardinal because that's just how the story goes, so be it. But it doesn't sit well with me at all if you want to do it to prove some strange point.

 

I personally don't really care what one does with their dolls; those are theirs, not mine. If something offends me, I don't go looking for it or scream and rant at them, and only if they try to physically shove/flaunt it in my face will I say anything (mostly to stop it). I would personally not have a doll appearing in a real religious outfit or as a real religious figure as a matter of respect for those religions and religious figures. That is simply how I view such matters. I am rather religious, but I don't really intend to sling it in anyone's face, but it is a large part of my life that effects a great deal of how I act and speak. Whatever historical and contemporary evidence there is to suggest whether these people were or were not as holy as they claimed/appeared to be, that's no reason for me to step in it. There were good people and bad people in the same time period, no matter when you look back; I don't see that as a license to do whatever.

Do my dolls' characters have a religion? Perhaps. I haven't reached that level of depth in my stories and world building. It's a very personal issue with many/most people and I want to give a feeling of reality to my stories, so it will remain a very personal issue in the stories themselves.

 

I've seen dollfies with lots of diffrent relgious clothing. I am Baptist but I don't see a big deal of changing your dolls clothes in order to make them a Monk or a Catholic School girl. Do whatever you feel is comfortable.

 

I completely agree - Christian bashing is seen as fun (disclaimer: I don't personally I'm just saying that generally some people do - twist this at your peril)

Muslim jibes are slowly creeping in but you are still at risk of "having your hands chopped off and being dragged through the streets by goats" - quoted from 17again by the lovely Zac Efron.

It's a silly world.

I personally think that there are some dolls that would look absolutely gorgeous in religious clothing; how hot would erm, Iplehouse Kamau look as a Sheik?? Or how gorgeous would the ElfDoll girls e.g. June look as a Hindu!? or as Mary - equally beautiful and not offensive or blasphemous or anything. I mean does anything stop the party waller from dressing up as a Vicar?? or the typical gobby one dressing as a nun - nothing!! They wouldn't dare dress as Bin Laden though...
my point is why should it make it a difference with your dolls? I don't think it should

 

I'm definitely offended by religion-bashing of any kind (and yes, from my perspective Christianity seems to get most of it), but I haven't really encountered that in the dolly world. Religious iconography seems to be considered beautiful by a lot of doll owners and companies (that lovely new girl from Souldoll, for example), which I think is cool, as long as it's done respectfully. We give our dolls detailed personalities, and religion and profession (possibly religious in nature) are just part of that. I also think that aspects of religion have become separated from their sources: Catholic schoolgirls aren't necessarily Catholic, Japanese punk kids wear crosses because they think they look cool, fantasy fans have angels and demons galore in their otherwise secular stories, etc. As long as these attributes aren't misused to further stereotypes or put forth deliberately disrespectful viewpoints, I think that's okay too.

 

I always considered a Buddhist Monk doll, but the irony of it in of itself was simply too much; I didn't want a doll that was just for satirical sake. It seemed like a lot of money to spend of novelty that I might not even in the end enjoy.

 

I personally couldn't care less what someone thought of my doll's attire, and I do indeed have a doll that's meant to be a priest, who ends up having a boyfriend. Needless to say he's not celibate. I also have dolls whose characters they're representing are a plethora of faiths, and some of them will certainly be donning the attire of it.
In the end, these dolls are just that - dolls.
They represent something different to each of us, but if someone decides to take offense to something my doll is wearing, that's their issue, not mine. They're the one that needs to stand back, take some time to reflect on why they're so offended, and hopefully come out the other side as more comfortable with their religious identity in every day life, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, whatever the case may be.
Not to be too off topic, but...
As an atheist, I don't see what the big deal is with taking jabs at any religion is whatsoever - in my mind, they're equally as invalid, but that's just me. Christians, I hate to say it, but you guys don't get it any worse than a majority of you folks give it in regards to other religions and to people like me. I think people tend to believe that there's more jabs aimed at Christianity as it's one of the largest religions in the world (not counting individual denominations, but the belief in God and Jesus Christ as his son/your savior... if I tried to count all the denominations of you folks I'd be here all day ^_~). The larger the number of adherents, the more voices there are to share stories of "This one time, someone said X". Its not media, it's not marketing, it's a simple fact of the numbers of Christians and the importance of religion in one's social identity.

*cough* Anyways... Um... Dolls are awesome! Thanks to the person who started this debate, it's been a very interesting read through.

 

I think as long as respect is paid it doesn't matter. I also agree slutty nuns are disrespectful, but to each his own. My doll's character is Wiccan, as am I, but I don't use it as a proselytizing tool. I just happened to have the cutest tiny pentagram and it really fits her character. I also agree with the above poster....no need to create drama where there ought not be any. Enough of the persecution complexes guys.

 

Reading through here was interesting. I agree that as long as you know what is offensive and what isn't with the religion you intend to portray, you really shouldn't be shunned for having a character of said religion. Personally, I'm not Christian, but I have a doll that is a Catholic Priest. I know how they are to dress and act, so I would never post photos of them doing anything offensive to those on the board who are Catholic. Respect of something that others hold so pious should really be thought of before posting anything dealing with a religious doll photo, or the like.

 

"Respectful" or "not respectful" makes no difference to me. Anyone can find ANYTHING "disrespectful". No one on this board can draw the line in the sand and say conclusively what is respectful and what isn't so my advice is don't look at images that offend you. Really, if there is something on the boards that you find offensive just click away from it. It isn't hurting anyone and it's easy enough to avoid.

I will add that if you post something that you KNOW might cause a stir be prepared. If you chose to share imagery that seriously challenges social norms or popular religious beliefs some people might not like it and they might tell you about it. Just as it is your right to post it is their right to say "I don't like that".