Resale Overprice (foreal)

It doesn't only apply to Sooms. I've rarely seen a recent customhouse doll resell for the same market value as people paid. Most are a lot higher than current customhouse sale prices. I've got quite a number of customhouse dolls coming because I thought "why not" last year and I sold my Vesuvia and Euclase to afford some of them. I have a wide variety in my collection. I've bought the Soom monthies and ended up reselling because I simply never played with them as much as I did the others. I like the idea of customhouse because they're cheap, fun and I don't have to worry about damaging a hugely expensive doll. Not that I've damaged any of mine so far (fingers crossed).

The market is fairly tough at present. Even soom's dolls aren't reselling for triple or double what people paid. Most are now keeping only slightly above original price. I'm fairly certain there's a group of people who buy to resell but that gets risky as now they are competing with other scalpers and not all soom's dolls have been highly sought after. The two tiny mermaids spring to mind. I think people sell for what the market is paying. If people aren't willing to pay, they don't sell. As mentioned, you may as well scream at the people willing to pay $6000 for a bermann or $3000 for a Madoka as the people selling said dolls. Realistically, it's the buyers who are keeping prices up. When no-one is interested, prices gradually drop.

 

If there's really a market, I think it's okay to sell a limited doll for way more than you paid. A doll like Soom Vesuvia is worth more secondhand because she's rare and a lot of people want her. If they can make a profit on it, great. Collector's markets are like that. I wouldn't pay that much, but that's me.
I do get somewhat annoyed when I see non-limited dolls on sale for way more than they cost, though. I saw a Souldoll Hye on the Marketplace once for like $800--with her default faceup, and no extras. Hye's about $580 new, so that markup was silly.

 

Do you think it's fair to buy a doll and then sell it for double the price?
Sure. Do what you want. Sometimes I admit it's irritating to see a doll, say a Soom Teenie Gem MD, that costs around $400 brand new, shipped, being sold for $750 a few months later, but it's not unfair at all. I feel the markup is too high so I don't buy it. There's no room or reason to kick and scream about it. If I truly wanted it, then it would be worth how much it was priced at. The person made the initial investment in the doll and after they own it, it's totally their right to resell it for however much they want. Overpriced doesn't really exist because no one will buy something truly overpriced. It's all about how much you truly value having that special doll/collectible/stamp/whatever.

When exactly is it okay to do this?
Anytime, really. It's the owner's choice. Someone wants it, you can charge more for it, you can do it. Everyone works hard to make it in this life, if someone else is willing to put down their money for a non-necessary luxury item like a doll and someone is looking to make a big profit on a doll in the process, so be it. It's all about how much you REALLY want that doll.

Why is/is it not okay.
It's okay because of Supply and Demand. You own the supply, there is demand, then you can charge what you want for it. If the question was "Is it okay to overcharge for food in times of famine?" then I would say that is probably morally wrong because people would starve, but this is all about a totally non-necessary luxury item. Morals have little place here beyond the morality and ethics of accurately describing what is for sale and then delivering the items once they are paid for.

Interestingly enough, I used to be more of the type that would cry in outrage "PRICE GOUGING IS TEH EVIL!!" but I was considerably less experienced in the doll world and I was all full of optimism that everyone will get their dream doll, somehow! But the reality is that maybe a LOT of people want, say, a Volks Williams, but there are not many of them. Some people are willing to pay BIG BUCKS for that doll. Why should the person who has one of those rarities sell it for a lowlow price? Everyone works hard to make their living and if someone can spare the money for the doll, the person selling it could certainly use it. I also realized that I was less about low resale prices when I was searching for a Soom Iv. They were long out of production and I was prepared to pay above new value if necessary, even for a secondhand doll because I just wanted him that much. That's how the market works. Whatever it is worth to others is exactly that - what it's worth. New price is not its value.

The true value is determined when someone else decides they want it.

As for myself, when I sell, I usually look for what the average secondhand price is for the doll I am selling and I price it at or below that. After all, it is used. However, if it is a doll in high demand and I am in desperate need of funds, I would not feel bad asking for a bit more. As I've said again and again, dolls are non-necessities and I don't think there's some sort of moral implication when pricing dolls. I usually keep my prices low because I want fast sales but if it really mattered to me that I get mucho money, I could place the doll on the Marketplace at a high cost and hope someone bites. I can't determine what a doll is worth, it's for the person observing/desiring it to decide for themself. All one can do is hope the ideas of value mesh up well so both parties are satisfied.

And as for the last question, how much of an increase is acceptable? As much as someone is willing to readily pay. If they're willing to pay $1000 for a doll then that is acceptable even if that doll was only $600 (or less) originally, they want it badly enough to pay a lot for it!

That ended up being a lot longer post than I intended, so...
tl;dr, Price it however you want. If someone is willing to pay it, then the price is right.

 

I guess as a buyer I have to look at this in a different way.

I in no way am 'WHINING' about the incident because everyone's needs are different. Like someone said, they may need to
pay bills, or something unexpected came up. But I'm looking at this as a "play" hobby and not a "collectors" hobby. So that's probably where we're missing the mark here.@@

But I do appreciate everyone giving their side of the story. Because if it wasn't me, then it would've been someone else would have asked you the SAME question. Because in some others opinions it does seem simply wrong. That's why I said:

"I'm sure not everyone who flip sells is a horrible person" That was to say already. :

"I don't feel that way and I sure as heck no better"

But since the topic is for dolls that are not limited, the limited part was an example based on what people have heard about Soom MD. Apparently people are frustrated with them. I like Luts and I've seen those who have said they'd never shop there again.

Though I agree that it is indeed buyer beware, I do indeed like that fact that someone admitted that they got into the hobby to resale for triple. That's what I asked right?

If you know you do it, then you have to expect people to ask "why". You're right, I don't know how the market works as far as selling. And I don't really plan to sell large items such as multiples of dolls.

But I guess since I buy dolls for the sake of truly bringing a vision I see to life that I don't have the principles of "Collectors" hobby.

Now as far as selling of a doll that is NOT limited or hard to find, would it be appropriate to sell for triple? Would it be right in any case if you are getting everything you paid for the doll and more.


I also agree with Penguin cheese here. I would think that too. Though I always want to hear the other side. It's only fair both sides get there word.

(Also thanks for keeping it civil guys. I've been places and seen the debate room turn into a brawling room. It's very kind of you.)

 

Appropriate to sell a non limited for triple? I don't know about appropriate but I do think its LAUGHABLE. Has any one ever even attempted to do this because if they have they must be selling to people who don't know any better. In that case it is pretty clear cut to me. That person is taking advantage of the fact that people don't know the doll is for sale ALL the time.

In that case both sides are really to blame. The seller for taking advantage and the buyer for not doing their research.

I am also in the hobby because I want the feeling of bringing some resin to life. However, I know that for others it is not totally the same experience. I am sure there is a crazy thrill in the collectors/trading aspect of all this too! If some people want to buy and flip their dolls ASAP I am not too bothered. I have seen some obscene prices (Suigintou the doll I want!) go up on EBAY and DOA but I just skip past those sales and except that she is out of my range...maybe forever. In some cases it kills my desire for the doll because suddenly the doll is about big money and not my enjoyment. That might explain why I am not too bothered by mark ups. I just sort of...detach and let the market do what it wants. If people are buying than I guess it works. If they stop buying well...I might get my doll one day.

 

He he... Me too! When I just entered the hobby, I was much more extremist in my views, but that was inexperience talking. Now I find myself feeling gratitude to those who made it possible for me to have my very expensive, hard-to-find, second-hand dolls. I wanted them enough to pay whatever price was asked, and I thank the previous owners for allowing me this opportunity.

 

God, yes, THAT. Seriously. If you price it as more than people are willing to pay, the thread stays on the Marketplace forever, or you lose your ebay fees. That's all.

If you really really want a doll but can't afford the going price, no one is cheating you or doing you out of anything, you're making a choice about how much money you'd be wiling to pay. For heaven's sake, I have a "vision" of a lovely rambling house with wide verandas , but that doesn't mean anyone has to sell me one for what the house would have cost when built 80 years ago, or even 5 years ago, just because I can't afford current market value. And there's plenty of dolls that I love but just don't have the cash for, and I don't go whine to the companies to mark them down. No one cares about your "vision" but yourself, and it's incredibly egotistic to think people should forgo real money because of what is, stripped of pretty words like "vision", just a material desire of your own.

Berating sellers because the market value on dolls SOMETIMES (and usually doesn't) rise and they won't sell below market value seems entitled and actually rather selfish. Far more selfish than a seller just wanting to get a fair (i.e. market) value on things.

Also, in my own experience, I had a non-bjd collectible doll sold to me once at way below what I'd originally agreed to pay because the seller "wanted her to go to a good home", pretty much charging me original retail rather than the inflated going price, and frankly, it was a ginormous ball and chain. I felt bad when I didn't love her as much as I'd thought I would, I feel uncomfortable at ignoring her or at the thought of selling her, and really, I kind of wish I'd paid market value.

 

This, this, a hundred thousand times over: this.

One of the truths of the universe that repeatedly seems to be utterly lost on people in this thread is that other people are simply not obligated to help us make our dreams come true or value those dreams as highly as we do ourselves. That there is the rare person in life that will share that sense of importance, or endeavor to help us accomplish them, is a great blessing that should not be taken for granted. It isn't something to demand of complete strangers, and when people do this, they really do prove just how little they genuinely appreciate the people who are willing to go the extra mile for them, or encourage, help, and otherwise value what we want right along with us.

 

As usual surreality you bring up a good point.

I like this thread because it allows you to see the sellers point of view in this and you come to realize in your naivety,
that they aren't just someone waiting to eat your wallet. I like that someone said that they resale the dolls to buy a doll
they want and I would completely do business wit them knowing that in the end we're both happy.

I know I'm the kind of person to extend a hand to those who come to me, but I have to remember that not everyone else will. And since I found out that indeed people buy dolls TO resale (in which I was thinking that they simply hacked up the prices on dolls they've had for awhile) it makes more sense. ^^

 

It should also be noted (again) that there is a difference between someone who is genuinely in need (for things like food, shelter and other life necessities) and someone who confuses wants with needs. A lot of people out there confuse needs with wants. Sadly, this is a growing phemomenon of entitlement. I see more and more of it in this community, which I why I'm not nearly as active in the chat threads as I used to be. It irks me, the number of people who think things should be handed to them for no other reason than because they want them.

All instacnes of "you" etc., used generically:

Yes, you may want that doll so badly you feel like you will waste away to nothing if you don't get it. I promise you, this is not the case. And if it is, you need serious psychological help. No one is obligated to cut you a good deal on something just because you want it, and because you feel you want it more than someone else does. These are, at their basest explanation, expensive toys. Not food. Not water. Not shelter. Not any of the other things people genuinely need to survive and thrive in the world. Toys. You don't need them, and no one here (or anywhere else) is under any obligation to give them to you. Nor shuold they have to endure guilt trips because of it. Or have to listen to your whining because you've been denied what you feel is a fair deal, when in fact the deal in question is usually far from fair for the seller. As my grandpa would've said, stop whining and get over it. The world doesn't owe you anything.

I know this sounds harsh, but I've been on both ends of the spectrum of this debate. I have sold limiteds for a markup that was on par with the Market's going rate for them, and I have bought dolls for the kind of ridiculous markup that, to this day, makes me cringe when I think about it.

Now, that said, do I regret paying the markup (2-3 times what the doll had gone for previously, and not all the original parts were included)? Not on your life. Do I think the seller should've cut me a deal because OMG the doll was so ridiculously expensive and marked up that it just wasn't fair and I wanted it soooooo badly? Nope. The seller had the goods. It was the only one of the doll that had come on the market for months, and I wanted the doll. I scraped my pennies and sold a lot of things and found a way to make it happen. I love her dearly, and she's with me until I the day I decide to exit the hobby (should that ever happen). To me, she was worth the price and that's all that matters.

Yes, we all know what it's like to covet that impossible dream doll. Every single person in this hobby knows the feeling. Some of us get lucky enough to bring him or her home. But no one owes you the right to make that happen. And no one especially owes you the right to make that happen on your terms. This is an expensive hobby, and like any hobby, that which is rare and no longer available from the company goes up in value due to limited buying options.

I'm still waiting for an answer from a question I posed back on page 2, especially as there seems to be a resurgence of those who think this markup process is unfair:

P.S. There was a comment either in this thread or another I read recently about whether sellers should feel bad selling dolls at a markup to inexperienced buyers (I think the case was an elderly lady with not that much computer experience). The answer to this is a resounding NO. It is the buyer's SOLE responsibility to research an item before buying it. The seller is under no obligation to inform them of how much a markup is, whether the skin tone makes Doll Brand B, etc. The seller has an obligation to state the condition of the item and note any defects as thoroughly as possible. The seller should not have to waste their time doing your research for you, especially when all the information you'll need about pretty much anything can be found somewhere in this forum. Do your research!!!!

If you buy a doll an then complain because it was twice what you should've paid according to curent market value, or this company's NS body doesn't match your doll head's NS, or this body type poses so much worse than Doll Brand A, that lack of information is solely on the buyer. And yes, I have been burned on this as well. But, again, my fault for not doing the proper research beforehand.

 

Many things appreciate in value. Baseball cards, cars...dolls. Especially limited dolls. Now, not all dolls apreciate and you cant expect to sell an everday standard doll for $300 more than you paid for it..but a limited? Go for it!

 

Wouldn't the company just keep the last 5 in stock until someone came along and bought them, at the original price? Or am I missing something here?

Exactly. It's a matter of respecting other people, rather than trying to profit off them. You may think in the long run, it's just the sale of a doll and it doesn't matter, but that scalper is walking around with that selfish attitude all the time, even when they're not selling dolls, and that's the real issue. It's detrimental to society, which is why we look down on it.

 

Yes, selling dolls for more than you paid for them is absolutely the downfall of society. 9_9

Seriously? I mean. SERIOUSLY? No. You can sell a doll for more than you paid and still be a perfectly lovely human being.

ETA: Okay, to elaborate rather than just being surly...

Let us consider the humble tshirt. How about this one.

That tshirt costs $15 on sale. Let us say that -- and this is a fairly charitable estimate -- the materials and labor required to make this tshirt cost $2. Let's say that this tshirt's share of the overhead for the store location selling it -- wages, rent, electric bills, etc -- cost another $2.

What people are basically saying is that, given that it costs $4 to produce and sell the tshirt, the tshirt should be sold for $4. Maybe $5. The tshirt is not sold for $5, it is sold for $15. That's $11 more than it takes to make it and sit it in the store so you can go buy it. And yet no one really complains about the tshirt.

I'm going to suggest two things here.

1. No one is going to say that the Gap is what is destroying society today because they have the audacity to make a $11 profit on a shirt, or that the people who decide how much to sell that shirt for are selfish people in every aspect of their lives. Really if you say that anyone who works in any business that sells stuff is a terrible, selfish person, and that's a pretty big swath of humanity.

2. No one says that about the Gap because we don't feel like the Gap is part of some intimate niche group of which we are a member and in which we expect everyone to treat everyone else like friends.

I know this is a little scandalous to some people, but I am not the friend of every BJD collector in the world. In fact I actively dislike some of them. Some of them I just do not get along with! I find them abrasive, they find me abrasive. When I sell a doll I am not doing a friend or kindred spirit a favor. I am engaging in a business transaction. That doesn't make me a bad person.

 

What? That old "you're depriving somebody else" spiel again? It's amazing how that keeps coming back up, years & years after you thought you'd beaten it to death with a shovel. Does anybody seriously believe that? Like, if I pass up buying this LE for myself, or if I decide to sell this Bermann for $500, it'll automatically go to a poor orphan who deserves it more than I do? Does anybody seriously believe in "deserves"?

And... downfall of society, reeeeeally. Everybody knows it's Madonna who shall eventually bring about the downfall of society, not the resale price off dolls.

 

There is no such thing as "overpriced." There is simply the price the market will bear. That is the nature of commerce.

 

Chibaraki, you are misunderstanding if you think I am anti-profit. The manufacturer of a t-shirt has created something useful, and is therefore entitled to a profit. A scalper has not created any useful good or provided any useful service to anyone, therefore they are not entitled to a profit. Again, the difference between a general seller and a scalper is one of intent, and my point was that intent is an important thing, even if the outward actions of a regular seller and a scalper may look the same. It is precisely because people recognize the importance of intent that they provide explanations for why they are selling their dolls. I am beginning to think, however, that some people pretend not to understand this concept because it is more profitable not to.

 

??? ... But the scalper has just provided a hard-to-find doll to a person who really really wanted it. It qualifies. Service is service, regardless of any intangible qualities that each individual person may assign to that service.

 

I don't provide explanations for why I'm selling dolls because the only explanation I'd ever give is "I don't want this doll anymore" or "I want something else instead of this doll".

The Gap hasn't created anything useful. All it's done is take a tshirt created by someone in Bangladesh and put it on a shelf. How is that so much better?

 

JennyNemesis, had the scalper not bought the doll, presumably either a) the doll would still be in stock at the manufacturer, and the buyer could have gotten it at original price, or b) the doll would have been bought by another person who wanted it for themselves, and we can't say honest buyer X is any more or less deserving than honest buyer Y. Therefore, the scalper has not provided a useful service.

Chibaraki, it was Gap who designed the t-shirt, commissioned its manufacture and transported it to a retail outlet, all useful services.

 

How about another example -- Macy's sells a Calvin Klein shirt for $40. I was there yesterday, I saw it. Presumably it costs the same to produce as the Gap shirt, maybe a little more, maybe they use better materials and more skilled workers. Macy's didn't design or produce this shirt, or cause it to be produced. All they do is sell it... at a massive profit compared to the cost to make the shirt, and the cost at which they acquired the shirt from Calvin Klein. Are they horrible and immoral?

I understand your argument, I just disagree with it, and I really resent the implication that my disagreeing necessarily means I don't understand.