Resale Overprice (foreal)

It is totally fair and fine. If you could not buy it when it was cheaper, that is your problem, though sad. There are people that are willing to pay that. That is how collecting works. Look at how cheap Barbies or cars or anything is sold for way more later if it is rare.

Sometimes it sucks not to be able to pay the new price, but that is the way life is. You cannot have everything you want. Unless you can pay a ton for it.

Personally I would really love a Rin Tohsaka Dollfie Dream, but there is no way I could afford the aftermarket prices. They were limited and are popular. So I settle for something different.

 

I can only speak from my own (very limited) experience that I think that is a very unfair statement. I found my dream doll and couldn't buy it, since it was both limited and sold out since a couple of years.. When I finally found a person who was selling the doll, it was twice as expensive. Therefore I personally think it's a bit unfair to raise/double the price for a doll, even if it's limited. To me it just seems like it becomes more about the money than the doll itself. Though I can see why people do it. I mean if it's popular limited and you can't get it anywhere else it's probably someone who's willing to pay double for it.

 

Somehow I feel that if you have spent a lot of money on taking care of your doll and making the face-up and everything, then why wouldn´t you have the permission to sell it at a higher price then what you payed for it. I mean, if someone really wants the doll they will buy it, if they find it too expensive, they wont buy it. Can´t see any problems with it. Of course I myself always check the original price of the cmopany and add to it the postage and that is the price I am willing to pay if I really like the doll unless it´s very old and yellow or has other problems. And to my understanding, the reason why people buy limited dolls is that they can be sold for a higher price... What ever it is that you are collecting, people don´t sell collectible items just to be nice and to give you a chance to get one as well. They sell them for a higher price, in order to get something even better. So why should this be different for dollies?

 

Isn't there a depreciated value on dolls, too? Like, wouldn't the doll's value begin to drop once it was sent out, or arrived to someone? Like, when you buy a car, it's value drops as soon as you leave the lot with it.

But if you do keep it in mint condition, and do so for a number of years, I think - in theory - the price can go up. That's sort of why some consider these dolls as investments. A perfect quality LE from a few years ago can probably fetch someone more than when they paid for it. It's like comic books. If you keep them in good condition, you can potentially sell them for a lot more.

Now, buying an LE doll that's been released rather recently and selling it for twice the amount seems unfair. I don't believe that the doll's price would have escalated that much in such a short amount of time, and I sort of doubt someone would be willing to pay that much considering the situation.

And if I were to buy a doll that has a larger price tag (in the marketplace, not an actual company), I'd like to be told what warrants this price. What did you do to it that should warrant the price you're asking for? Is it heavily modded, but well-done, and the doll looks even better? Did you do a lot to make sure the joint system works without a hitch? I feel it's perfectly fair to ask for a reason as to why someone is selling a doll for X, when the price is lower originally. Most people tell you it, to some degree - like they've modded it for certain things, or that it's in mint condition from 2006... that I feel can deserve a mark-up.

Just telling me you aren't bonding, or something that can easily be applied to most dolls on the market today just doesn't cut it for me. For me, I'd look to see if it truly deserves the mark-up it's getting, otherwise I would question the sellers true intentions.

 

This realy shouldn't be a debate in the first place... this is just plain old supply and demand economics in action... To say that it may be 'wrong' in some way is naive at best. All collector type hobbies have a certain level of investment involved, and there is nothing wrong with profiting off of ones investments when there is an opportunity. You can mark up a doll 1,000x fold if you want, but it will only sell if it is desired that much... In the same instance, if a doll is selling, on average, for two or three times its original sale price, and you sell it for it's original price, you are realy doing yourself a disservice. There is always a big enough chance that someone will take advantage of your sale price to make a profit of their own, and in the end, you deserve the profit for actualy buying and keeping the doll... not the jerk who wants to use you for an easy buck.

As for the companies... It is a given when you make anything in limited quantity, that there will be a mark up on second hand sales. Doll companies, like any other sucesful company, understand the concepts of economics, so they know this before ever making limited dolls, or discontinuing a doll. If the doll ends up selling for two times the original price, it should be taken as flattery for the company... they made a great product. If they don't like it, they can remake the sculpted and cash in on the profit, which in turn, will lower the price on the second hand market.

I generally left my post about limited and discontinued dolls, because people are not going to pay an extremely high markup on a doll you can easily get straight from the company for the original retail price whenever you want to. at most, people may pay a very small mark up on these dolls to get them now, instead of having to wait for them to be made, but not the kind of prices that limiteds can go for.

 

The invisible hand strikes again.

 

I really wish there was an applaud icon, because your response deserves it.

This really shouldn't even be a cause for debate, but it does boggle my mind the grasp - or lack there of - this forum has regarding resale values. If a price is too steep for your wallet - don't buy it! Chances are someone else will. I just shelled out a pretty penny on a limited head I've wanted for the past three years and was never able to afford. Until now. Because I wanted it. The head itself cost more than what the FS doll originally sold for. Am I complaining? Heck no! I wanted it and was willing to pay for it.

It's an expensive, consumer driven hobby and that's all there really is to it.

 

Well, first of all, if you own a doll and you wish to sell it, you'll pick whatever price you see fit. If it's too high, the doll simply won't sell and it will just sit there.

But, if you're going to sell your doll, you're going to look and see what others had sold it for in the past; that's only normal. If the market dictates that the doll goes for $300 more than you paid for it (Just random number for the sake of argument ) you obviously are going to go with more money. If there's a very rare doll that's in high demand, of course it will be higher in price than it used to be, that's how that works with anything. If it's rare and no longer being made, the value goes up.

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I can understand people reselling it for a higher price. But it does bug me that people would go to the trouble of attending Doll Party or something similar, buy a limited doll and then jack up price twice the amount a day later. So basically my problem are the people who buy it that aren't even in the hobby. However sometimes overpricing by 3-4x the original price is just a bit much too...

 

First of all, let me suggest a link of interest that I would not cite as a refutable resource necessarily, but more along the lines of a good read dealing with something on a similar basis:

http://collectdolls.about.com/cs/collectingdolls/a/dollvalue.htm

Mmm, I love it when you talk mark up. *chuckles.*
I agree wholeheartedly that if a buyer chooses to pay a price for an item then it is obviously okay for that person and within their financial pain threshold.

What is resale?

“The trade value of a good that has already been purchased. If the holder of the good wishes to resell the good to another party, this would be the amount of money that could be expected to be made from the transaction.”

(Read more: http://www.investorwords.com/6641/resale_value.html#ixzz1UTD9T0Jb – Above definition copied from this location)

Resale versus retail is a concept that has been widely debated. While the term “scalping” may be appropriate to describe the action-

Main Entry: scalp
Function: transitive verb
: to buy and sell so as to make small quick profits < scalp stocks>; especially : to resell at greatly increased prices intransitive verb : to profit by slight market fluctuations &#8212; &#8212; scalp&#8226;er noun
("scalp." Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law. Merriam-Webster, Inc. 08 Aug. 2011. Dictionary.com <http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/scalp.>)

-It should be duly noted that the term is highly inflammatory and slanderous. A person seeking profit cannot be called by any other name- for which name describes the desire to make profit? Entrepreneur? Look up the term and you will find similarities in the goals of both a &#8220;scalper&#8221; and an &#8220;entrepreneur.&#8221; Lines become blurry in the business world. Copying a doll mold is a different matter. We call this &#8220;copyright infringement.&#8221;

This will temporarily veer off topic into the general doll collecting market, so bear with me:
Take the case of Shirley Temple dolls that were mass marketed and produced. Earlier models of the doll marked &#8220;MIB&#8221; will have a higher resale value than a played with version. Regardless of the collector, the mint dolls had a greater value as they bore no imperfections and came exactly as they were produced. The more popular ones were the ones that were rare to find or limited editions in some ways (such as the accidental case of the blue-eyed darling that was a mistake seeing as the doll&#8217;s model had brown eyes, not blue). These will be readily accepted by those who long to have them at most any price that&#8217;s offered, though there&#8217;s still an average set within the market. It does depend on the buyer when it comes to how much they are willing to shell out.

However with serious collectors, the likelihood is that a doll that has been played with (even a rare one) is not as desirable as the holy grail of untouched beauty. The doll market value will still be high for a rare Shirley, but not as high as a mint one.
Value does decrease with wear on the object no matter what the object is that is being sold until you get into the realm of &#8220;antiques.&#8221;

This magical realm covers &#8220;used&#8221; items that are no longer widely available, have &#8220;heritage&#8221; if you will and appeal to buyers who seek items with a story. Still condition plays a role in pricing as well as comparable items. If you have two that are identical and proven to be the same model, then the one in better condition will be more valuable. It&#8217;s common logic. Would you purchase an antique dining table with just two legs at the same price as you would a table with four? The seller is not to blame for the price that he/she sets it at. That is the decision that that person came to. It is up to the buyer to choose whether or not it is acceptable.

Elements should be taken under consideration:
*Condition
*Use
*Age
*Rarity/Limited Edition Status
*Services that are offered with the product

The following is purely my opinion and I&#8217;m not declaring it as God&#8217;s truth:

If you are seeking a doll that is unique and one of a kind, then you might want to look for an item that hasn&#8217;t made it to mass produced status or has been modified so that it stands out. A &#8220;face up&#8221; does not count as a OOAK modification (in my opinion) as it is painting that can be done by the same artist with another doll if requested (though the artist leaves differences with each item that makes the painting /styling unique- The painting is one of a kind. The doll underneath it is not. Do you see what I mean? I am by no means discounting the craft of face up customization). It leaves the item still pretty much the same as it was with only a difference in how it was decorated. (If I paint apple skin and leave the apple as it is, won&#8217;t you know what it is? It&#8217;s still an apple.) To alter the item itself is to change the appearance altogether so that it is no longer as easily recognized as a certain brand. Then we&#8217;ve entered the one of a kind territory.

However (and I love to debate with myself), there are contradictions to my opinion. I know of many who paint with such finesse that dolls are not easily identified as a certain type. It is a widely accepted and highly desired service (I gladly will commission people to do work that I am incapable of because it can make my darlings stand out from just being a mold) as it does tend to make individuals&#8217; doll choices uniquely different from someone else&#8217;s. It alters &#8220;personalities&#8221; that people bestow on their beauties.

I gladly bow at the feet of those who have perfected this art. But does it disguise what the doll is? It is still a Chiwoo (picking a random one) under all that paint just like I am a human under all my make up.
The mold of myself is what makes me unique.

I have one Chiwoo that I love and adore who was painted by someone else. He is absolutely gorgeous, but he is still just a Chiwoo painted a certain way. Would I charge more because he has color on his face? Why should I? My Chiwoo has depreciated in value over the years. He is old, but not antique status, in good condition but not perfect, and can easily be purchased still untouched on the Luts website.

Let&#8217;s get real for a minute.

He is highly desired (by me), but not in the doll market. The demand could still be high for a Chiwoo, but the availability of the product is as well. Luts has not stopped stocking the product. People seeking to make income have offered them at inflated prices. I foolishly started to sell him at one point (thankfully didn&#8217;t have to go through with it) for around 350 with all his accessories from the years. It&#8217;s because a lot of money has been put into him and I wanted to get the same or similar amount out of it. The thing is though that this simply doesn&#8217;t happen unless you find the right buyer. At the time, I had emotion tied into it.

The question becomes: Why would someone buy my Velveteen rabbit at that price when for just a few more dollars they could buy something that had not abided with me? &#8220;Used&#8221; condition indicates that it has &#8220;endured use&#8221; or is frankly secondhand.
Again, it comes to buyers and preferences as so many have said.

However, let me be honest. Having worked in retail a long portion of my life, I find it insulting to the manufacturers of a product to see something in used condition being sold for the same price as a current object if it is widely available. &#8230;That and a bit amusing if it is marked up due to a current layer of paint.

A price drop would seem appropriate. I&#8217;m not saying &#8220;HEY! BJD FOR TEN BUCKS!&#8221; I got a little irked personally when someone offered me fifty.
&#8230;But perhaps a markdown is in order.
For my aged friend with his accessories, perhaps 150$ might have been an acceptable request. I still pay homage to the matter of the doll&#8217;s value, while counting age and imperfections. The accessories that would come with it would just be icing. He is not rare or limited, just aged and loved.

(And no, I&#8217;m not selling him now, thanks. ^_~)

Another resource for your perusal: http://www.crawforddirect.com/worth.html

 

I think if it was a limited doll then yes, it's okay to overprice. But if it wasn't limited and has modding and what not, then no, I don't think it should be overpriced.

 

Personally, I wouldn't do it. If I got the doll for 600, that's what I'd list it for. But then you face a hard truth of someone buying it for that price then turning around to sell it for triple the cost. If I wanted more for the doll I would auction it off that way everyone would have a chance to at least be able to try.

 

Selling it for a slight markup if it's been off the market for awhile is fine... but what ticks me off? Scalpers. Buy multiples of a doll/a doll you never intended to keep just to mark it up? Seriously? Save those limited slots for someone who will love the doll!

 

Oh. ABSOLUTELY the doll companies want their dolls to sell higher on the secondhand market!!! That increases the value of their product! If buyers know they can resell at a profit, there are more buyers for that product. If the dolls are selling at a higher price on the second hand market, the doll company will eventually increase their prices, or, if the dolls resell higher on the second hand market because they are hard to purchase, the company will eventually make their dolls more readily available, to more buyers. If it's about limited dolls, the company gets more buyers if people know they can buy and resell at a profit, so they're just as pleased as punch when limited dolls resell for a higher amount. They'll sell more limiteds, and/or, at a higher amount next time around! Supply and demand, that's what it's all about. The higher the price on the second hand market = the higher the demand = better profits for the company in the long run, hands down.

 

I think it's completely fine -and the seller's choice- to put the doll up for sale at any price deserved. If people find it too high a price, then they simply won't buy the doll. Just by rising the prices no one's ordering you to buy, if you feel it's too high, then don't buy it. It's as simple as that. And if the doll doesn't sell and the seller has to lower the price, then it's also his problem.

I think it's totally normal for people to want to get back the price they payed for the doll and, sometimes, when it comes to people buying from other currencies, to get back what you initially put on the doll means rising the price (because, you know, currency flows suck! UXD) or one will end up loosing a lot of money.

 

Basically I think people can do whatever they want to. However I have to say I don't like the kind of people who would ask an overly high price when reselling a doll. I'd be very disappointed if any of my friends did something like that.

When I see a sales thread in the marketplace like that I just think to myself that I hope no-one is stupid enough to pay that much and I might even think "what an idiot" about the seller. Then I move on.

In the very beginning when I was in this hobby I actually bought a doll for too much. The seller added shipping from the company to her to my price and I didn't realize that until after I had committed to buy. I ended up paying a couple of dollars more than I would have paid for a blank doll directly from the company. And my doll had a HORRIBLE face-up - not just ugly but very poorly made too - that I had a lot of trouble removing. Needless to say I never even bother to open sales threads from this seller.

So just like people can ask whatever price they want to, I can think about them whatever I want to. I have no need to tell them and even if I wanted to I wouldn't. If people weren't talking directly to me - like in PMing me and asking me to buy (in which case I would tell them it was too much) - I don't believe I have the right to say anything.

My view on this subject actually applies to my views on everything. It’s a general rule for me. I don't believe you have the right to tell other people what they should and should not do. As long as they aren't breaking the rules. If they are you should tell someone in authority - like a mod in a forum - and let them deal with it. But your thoughts are your own and you have the right to think and feel whatever you want to.

Dustbunnie

 

I fail to see how it is the seller's fault if a buyer doesn't do their research. I see a lot of this "blame the seller" mentality going on, and it's kind of scary. It is never ever ever a seller's job to do a buyer's research for them. It is the seller's job to say "this is what I have" "this is the condtion it is in" "this is what it costs," and to answer any questions to the best of their ability.

It is the buyer's job to determine if they are overpaying (in the buyer's opinion), if the item will match their head/body/special parts/shoe size, and what, exactly, they are getting for their dollar. Blaming the seller for charging fees a buyer didn't realize they were paying is absoulutely ridiculous. I mean, how does someone not know exactly what they are paying for? It seems like a very careless way of buying things, IMO.

 

As someone who both buys and sells I think it IS fair for someone to up the price of whatever it is they are selling. However with that being said, I don't support the people who buy dolls JUST to resell at a higher price, but to each their own. If someone loved and cared for their doll but had to get rid of it in the end for WHATEVER reason, they are allowed to charge whatever the doll is worth to them. Sometimes a $600 could be worth $1000 to someone and it shouldn't be anyone's business if they wanted to sell it for that much. It's not a matter of "oh how could anyone sell something when it's that overpriced" because at the end of the day it isn't about how silly someone is for selling something at that price. You can't really judge seeing as you have no idea what their motives are. I of course am willing to pay more for my dream doll, and likewise I will sell a doll for more if push came to shove and I had some kind of attachment to it.

 

Oh dear... well, yeah, all of that is the buyer's own fault. Caveat emptor if you don't do your research about the doll's value, or have a dialogue with the seller about the price.

The way to avoid that = Sell the doll for its actual market price, rather than what you paid for it. That means "whatever price the market will currently bear for that doll"... i.e. if its current value is triple the $600 you paid, then go ahead & ask for $1800.

But, if you're looking for some kind of self-awarded halo, then by all means, do charge $600 for a doll who'd otherwise sell for $1800. Collectors will love you like a vulture loves fresh roadkill!

 

As it's been said already in this thread, Scalpers are the only ones I have a problem with- People who buy multiples of a limited doll, keep one (or none at all), and resell them for hundreds of dollars more a few weeks after getting them in the mail. And before someone says anything, yes, there is a difference between buying a doll, getting it, and deciding that it isn't for you, and buying a doll because you know you can make profit off of it.

To add to the conversation though, I have noticed some people complaining about people marking up the price on modded/customized dolls... If someone takes the time to create an OOAK and decides to sell it for a higher price, then what is wrong with that? If they designed a vision, did the modifications, and decided to sell that, I don't see anything wrong with it. If time, money, and effort went into creating a unique doll, they deserve to sell it for what they think it is worth. -firm nod-