Resale Overprice (foreal)

I don't agree with buying something specifically to sell again at a substantial markup, but in a free-market economy, people have the right to do so. I mentioned in another thread somewhere that I have noticed a trend with certain sellers who have a newly-arrived limited up for sale every month, usually at a $400+ markup. I personally would never buy from these particular sellers from this reason, as to me it seems like they are only buying to resell, but anyone else on here is certainly entitled to if the price is what they are willing to pay.

As many before me have said, if someone is willing to buy it, it is not overpriced. Period. It may be more than what you (generic) can pay, or are willing to pay, and it may tick you (again, generic) off because you want the doll and can't afford it and therefore it isn't fair, but if a doll was truly overpriced no one would buy it and the price would come down on its own accord, or the doll would just remain unsold.

Which is to say, I really don't understand why this topic (OMG second-hand limiteds are sooooo expensive *sob*) keeps coming up over and over again. If you (again, generic) want something, stop whining about how unfair life is because you (generic) can't have it omgrightnow and get a job or a paper route or sell things on ebay or make a lemonade stand and find some way to save up. Patience isn't just a virtue in this hobby, it's a necessity.

 

I would say, I think it's unfair if people buy limited dolls PURELY to re-sell them again at a higher price as then people who want to order them might miss out. However, I don't see a really big problem. Sometimes buying from other people on the market place can be safer than buying from the company it's self!

 

If I were going to sell a doll that I just bought, I'd sell it for the price I had to pay for it. I'd probably give the buyer a break on the shipping price. If I were going to sell a doll I've had for a while that's still available from the company, I'd probably discount the price a bit, depending on the condition of the doll. If I were going to sell a doll that I've had a while that's not still available from the company, I would watch the marketplace to see what dolls like mine are selling for now and price my doll accordingly. I think I would be upset if I sold a doll for the price I originally paid and then the buyer turned around and scalped it for the going rate. In other words, supply and demand. More times than not, any time I have sold a doll, I usually lose money on the deal. I can only think of one time I sold a doll for more than I paid for it, but even so, my profit was very small and far below the going rate at the time.

 

I have no problem with buying dolls for resale, this si called investment, people do it on the stock market, with jewelery, even with some cars, so I really don't mind, but I DO mind when people say they love the doll but it is just not right for them so they are selling, but it just happens to be the ltd everyone wants, and it just happens to be after they have gone off sale, and it just happens that they do this repeatedly, that is irritating, I mean just be HONEST.

I agree with this completely, the price of any item is determined by two things, what the seller is willing to sell for,a nd what the buyer is willing to pay. If the seller is only willing to sell a doll for a certain price and no one is willing to pay it then THAT doll is overpriced for the BUYERS, but not the seller, but if people are willing to pay, well then it is not overpriced at all but meets the market value.

here here, there are dolls I want and can't have, so I save, and wait, patience is most certainly a necessity in this hobby, and the wait makes the win all the more sweet.

 

I always list dolls for what I paid for them.

I bought a Volks Williams for $800 dolls. I put him up for sale at $800 and was basically attacked by a slew of people and he got up to $1600 dollars. Which I was suprised at, but it was exciting for me.

 

I am going to assume this statement was made about limiteds, since they are usually the most marked up, and not about dolls still available for purchase from their companies, since the option remains for the average buyer to buy direct instead of paying secondhand prices.

The reason you can still do a markup on a non-mint limited is because it is still a limited and no longer available for sale from the company. The only way to buy them is on the 2nd hand market. And again, because demand is greater than supply, all the people who missed out on it the first time around are willing to pay for the opportunity to make their dream come true, even if an eye or an ear or a faceup is damaged, or there is a resin chip somewhere or a broken finger.

For those so set against *limited* markups, I am curious as to why, specifically, it is unfair to raise resale price according to rarity, especially when this is standard practice in every hobby out there. Why should BD's be any different than baseball cards or comic books or commemorative plates? I am truly interested to hear answers for this that don't include some variation of "because I (or someone else) want one and can't afford it, so therefore it's not fair."

 

While people may have every 'right' to buy and then sell dolls at a marked up price in a free market economy [EDIT]purely for profit and not because they actually want the doll[/EDIT], I've gotta' say, that that's just a pretty dickish move over-all. I guess it sort of has its indirect positives, in a weird twisted up sort of way, but that doesn't make the actions/intentions of the seller any less, well, crappy. They know they don't care about the product, they know there are tons of others who do, they know that by buying this doll they're depriving someone that wants it from getting the chance, and they know that they're ripping someone off for more money than they paid for the doll purely for a profit.

Unless it's one of those 'timed' limited :/ . Uh, where instead of a set number of limited amount comes out, there's a time limit, and for however many that are ordered, that's how many is made? It's not the coolest thing ever to get into buying/reselling those for profit either, but I guess despite less-than-pure intentions, it is a stronger indirect positive in that doing so creates more of the dolls to eventually have in the market in the first place. :shrug:

Mm, in terms of overprice in general, obviously if there were any lies or intentional misconceptions at play, that would be terrible and all. In terms of buying a normal doll, then later not wanting it and selling it on the market, I think a small mark-down would be appropriate, unless it was somehow modded or added to with extra gifts, because otherwise, why not just buy from the company or something? Whether or not the product is the same value or well-cared for, sometimes I think a doll loses a tiny little something when bought and then resold after a time. But, I'm not very familiar with the marketplace, and apparently selling at the same price as buying from the company is somewhat the norm for BJDs, so what do I know XD ?

ali

 

I think you can charge more than what you paid for a doll, but only under a couple of circumstances.

One might be if you found a bargain and paid less for market price for it. Reselling it at market price instead of what you paid for is not terribly unresonable if the doll is still in good condition.

Another might be if you have done extensive or expesive work on the doll. If you paid a well- known customizer for a $100 face-up, you are going to increase the price based on conditions like that.

 

...so people who ask what their doll is actually going for on the second-hand market (when said doll is commanding more than its initial purchase price) are intentionally ripping people off and being 'dickish' and have 'crappy intentions'?

Forgive me for disagreeing vehemently. Nobody is 'entitled' to the chance to own any specific doll, nor are they 'entitled' to purchase that doll for a given price. If the market dictates that a doll is going for a hefty markup, then it's not 'dickish' for a seller to ask market price. That's just economics at its most basic. If you don't want to pay the marked-up price, that's your prerogative -- but you must understand that will not suddenly reduce the market value of a doll, and if you don't want to pay the marked-up price you might be waiting a long time for the price to come down (if ever).

If you look at some of the highest-priced items on the secondhand market, a lot of them are being auctioned off. People are bidding up to those prices. If it wasn't worth it? People wouldn't be bidding for it. Does that make the seller a 'dick'? Hardly. They're not the ones that set that price, in the end.

 

This. Thank you.

"Entitlement" is a word I wanted to use myself but was reluctant to. I see more and more people who seem to embody the way of thinking you mention above, IE that they have the right to buy a super-rare out-of-stock hard-to-find doll for its original (somtimes years old) retail value or less. Even when other of buyers have decided they would be willing to pay much, much more for the privilege to own that doll and have subsequently established a much-higher second-hand market value for it.

Seems like more and more threads and posts are popping up about how unfair the secondhand market is and I cannot, for the life of me, grasp where and why people think basic economics should be put aside just because they want something they can't afford or don't want to pay current secondhand market value for. Or for that matter, that some people are given flack for owning more than one of a limited sculpt because they should be content with only one and sell the rest to give others who want it a chance to own one (for below established market value, of course). Uh no, they shouldn't. They have as much right to the doll (or to fifteen of them) as anyone else.

I know there is another debate (or three) going on about Elitism. In my own experience, I haven't seen a lot of elitism on the boards. I have seen more than my share of folks with entitlement complexes. Of course, now I'm going to be called a rich, stuck-up elitist for saying so just because I agree with the free-market system and happen to own some limited dolls.

 

The thot just occured to me, if I expected that somebody buy an LE, then sell it to me at the same or a reduced price later, when I had the money, is a bit like expecting them to pay me for the priveledge of providing me with a super-extended 'layaway' plan -on my terms, interest-free!

Seems a leeetle ridiculous, doesn't it? In fact, it's an extremely 'unfair' expectation.

 

Yes, exactly. And it's the same points made over and over again every time.

I understand that there's going to be some repetition or very minor variations in the debate threads, but how many times do we have to rehash this issue? Nothing new is added, it's just the same bunch of viewpoints about whether it's "ok" to own more than one limited and whether marking up a doll for sale constitutes "scalping". In the end, it boils down to people who for whatever reason couldn't get the doll at the company price not liking that they can't afford the secondary market price for the doll. I can sympathize with this to some degree, but constantly trying to make it into some kind of moral issue is silly and frankly, tired.

 

I had a Sard and sold him, I got more than I paid, but previously when I've sold limited things at my cost, I've watched people turn around and sell them for more. I figure the money is better off in my pocket. I didn't buy him to 'scalp' - at the time, I was simply one of the few who was buying MDs. Since then he increased in popularity. I'm a bit dubious about the people who buy, get the dolls then place them on the market within the next day or two. But it's hard to say who's a scalper. I bought Sard then fell in love with Euclase, who is still here. In time, there may be another doll I prefer more and I'll want to sell Euclase. Whether I get the same money, more money or less, depends on what the marketplace is willing to pay. I buy the dolls because I want them and I'll sell them for what people are willing to pay. I've yet to see anyone squawking over the numerous dolls I've lost money on selling.

 

Well, frak it, my post came out wrong. Forgive me, I was on a rush to finish and post at the time and didn't get to proofread. Allow me to rephrase.

I'll refrain from responding to the rest, since that's a response to (I believe) a misinterpreted (due to being misworded by myself...) opinion. I agree with you on that stuff, and I know that I'd do it myself if given the chance.

ali

 

Often I buy items and they drop in value, so I lose money.

If I buy items that I later resale and they increase in value, I am lucky. And perhaps I break even overall. Then the money goes back into my collection.

 

I've put up dolls for auction when I collected fashion dolls that went for much, much more than I paid -- but I wasn't the one setting the price there, so I really don't know how to answer this one. I know one went for over 3x what I paid for it and would have gone for far, far more if I'd waited a little longer. Is that a different animal? Maybe, maybe not. It still sold for much more than I paid, but I wasn't the one setting the price.

So where does -that- fall in the whole debate?

Sure, I could have sold it for only what I paid. Would that have been the only 'ethical' thing to do? Or is letting the market set its own price for the item equally ethical at auction? Starting price was what I paid, so if the market deemed that the only proper price for it, the market would have paid that.

 

The seller's intentions should never enter into a buyer's decision; in fact, I wish sellers would quit posting their "excuses" on sales pages about why they're selling this doll. They feel obligated to claim that their grandmother just died or they need cat surgery or something, so they don't look like a villain for selling a doll for what it's really worth. All of this dreck about "impure intent" on the part of a seller is really a turnoff. How do YOU know for sure that that seller is only doing it for profit? And even if they are, what gives anyone the right to judge someone else's reason for selling anything? Sour grapes? "Well, this person is selling a limited that I didn't get-- therefore, this must be an evil awful uncaring person who's just grubbing for money"?

It's up to the buyer to determine whether that doll, in that condition, is worth the asking price. If you can't make an informed enough decision-- i.e., you don't know how big a markup an SDink faceup is worth at the moment, or whether the 2006 NaNuRi head goes for more than the 2007, or how long Volks Shiro has been unavailable, or how often an SD16 body comes up for sale-- then go do more research. DOA has a Search feature. So does eBay.

You will soon find out that "higher price than retail" is not always equal to "overpriced". In fact, you'll find a lot of seemingly high prices turn out to be bargains. $1700 may sound insane as a number-- but if you ever see a Volks Yukinojo fullset listed for $1700, you'll also see a trail of blood and body-parts left behind by the mass of people who chewed each other to death trying to get there first.

Testify.

The Entitlement around here is getting THICK. It's like a disease. Every year, a little thicker....

 

The true value of a product is how much someone is willing to pay for it.

If someone buys a doll for $500 and tries to sell it for $350, even if it's less than what they originally paid for it, if nobody wants to buy it, then it's not worth even $350 to anyone else.

Likewise, if someone finds a crushed soda can on the street, puts a $1,000 price tag on it, and some sucker forks over the cash, then apparently that piece of trash was worth that much to someone.

It's all about what someone wants and how much they are willing to spend on it. People may not agree with listing a doll for much more than what they paid for it, but if you're upset about it because you can't afford it, then you're just being sore.

 

Frankly I don't get why people would buy it unless it were a limited doll they couldn't get anywhere else, but I don't think it's fair to make a profit off of a doll like that.

I can understand if someone bought a doll a while back but need to sell it later and selling it for a little more then they bought it, but double the price is pushing it a lot! And I can definitely understand wanting to at least break even on the doll!

 

Or for selling at all, sometimes.

Great topic for another thread, by the way! Even without markups factoring into the picture at all, there seems to be a general mentality to rationalize and explain the decision to sell a doll. I would really be interested to hear some responses on this one. Though not here, obviously, as that would steer us way too far off-topic.