Resale Overprice (foreal)

Bravo for this. Yes, it's so -- oh, what's the buzzword of the month -- "transparent," isn't it?

Now, see, this I personally have an issue with. (not at you, avacado, just at the concept). Because if I'm buying a doll from anywhere other than the manufacturer or a distributor, that means I'm buying a USED item.

Here, let me sell you my 1995 Plymouth for 14K

Yes, I realize that's not really a good analogy. But I just can't bring myself to list for-sale dolls for retail price if they're not brand-new. Nor can I justify in any way, shape or form charging someone else for the cost *I* paid to have the doll shipped to me.

There ARE some exceptions, of course, as others have mentioned. Some dolls are incredibly rare and hey, people really won't mind paying more. But for a readily-available sculpt, in this market? I'd feel really BAD if I tried to get full price out of it.

That's just me, though. I certainly understand that other's mileage may vary.

 

YES YES YES and freakin YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Or worse yet, I found a seller selling a partialy sanded down doll, that she admitted she had lost interest in continuing the mods and so it was disclored, listed for 530$ I made her a 250 offer and she acted like I had just pissed in her Cheerios. Seriously WHY on Earth would I pay full price for a damaged doll that was still available pristine from the company.

My momma raised no stupid girls...

 

I usually price dolls based on what I think they're worth and what the market will bear. If I have a doll that's in like-new condition I'll probably sell it for about what I paid for it, less shipping because if someone wanted to pay shipping they could order a new one.

Limited dolls tend to go up in value because there are more people who want them, and are willing to pay lots for them, than there are dolls. They CAN'T just go buy a new one.

Honestly, I think people can price dolls for sale however they want. If their pricing isn't reasonable, usually the doll won't sell.

I do think it's pretty skeezy to buy a limited doll for the express intent of selling it at a profit, the same way I think scalping concert tickets is skeezy. You're taking advantage of fans of something for your own monetary gain. But if you bought a doll with the intent to keep it and for whatever reason end up selling it I don't see the problem in getting the market value for it. And I know that's a very fine line that can be hard to draw -- I generally only consider someone a scalper if they REGULARLY buy limiteds and then immediately resell them at a markup.

 

The set of mind that 'any price is right so long as somebody out there is willing to pay it' and not to whine like a complainy Janey about it can be applied to other situations as well.

What about in an economy where only the richest, like, say, nobility, can 'afford' to buy good food, or achieve a nice standard of living, and 90% of the population is rather poor? Can't afford clean water, or good medicine? If you can't afford it, that's not the economy's problem, and you shouldn't complain about the 'unfairness'. If it's worth it, you'd pay for it, or find a way, right? Even if you have to, say, work 12 hours a day seven days a week and have your children sent to work, or some other ridiculous crap.

This is, of course, a completely RIDICULOUS comparison. These are just expensive toys after all, this is hardly a huge ethical dilemma. But why get so annoyed and uppity about people who dislike double-priced dolls and 'scalpers' on the market, and similar things? They feel it's kind of unfair; it's not a crime, or wrong to have their own opinions about what they feel is fair or right.

ali

 

I have sold a doll head for more than her Volks purchase price. It was a completely reasonable price, especially compared to other sellers at the time, so I don't see anything wrong with it.

If you buy a doll solely with the purpose to resell immediately, then that's wrong. I didn't buy the head ever intending to sell her, we just didn't bond. I think the morality all lies in your intentions, which unfortunately can't ever be proven.

 

In my case? It's the lack of perspective, to be honest with you. Much as I love them, my dolls are not a need -- like food, or shelter, and so on. It's a little beyond just being a ridiculous comparison, and into the category of 'two very different things'.

If someone has lost the perspective that these are luxury goods, and that as luxury goods, they're going to be precisely that -- a luxury they can have if they can afford to have it -- it might be time to step back a bit.

You're describing things that have major popular interest, and there is still plenty of conflict about whether everyone should be entitled to eat regularly, or have a roof over their head, and so on. If someone wants to start a 'dolls for everybody!' campaign, I doubt it's going to get the same level of support (though admittedly I think we'd live in a much more entertaining world if that happened!). Feeling that one is entitled to not die in the street is a little different from 'can have every little thing one's heart desires'.

 

Blame the buyers. If someone is willing to pay the inflated price, the sellers are going to keep offering the crazy prices. If everyone waits for a sensible price, sellers have to keep costs down. This is the way of market forces across the world, it is nothing new. It is also neither fair nor unfair, it's just the way it is These dolls aren't a right, they're a luxury. Some people can afford to pay over the odds for a doll, some people can't and I'm sorry, but that is the same for all luxury items everywhere. It's sad but true.

 

This thread has become fairly interesting, I find a lot of opinions saying similar things to how I feel and I adore the way some of you put things.

My god this is a perfect analogy! (it really made me laugh too) If I suffer a loss of value while owning a doll then I can consider that as the rent I pay for the period in which I have enjoyed that doll's company, however if I happen to sell a doll for more than I paid for it (never happened but I have sold clothes for more) then I have been lucky to spend time with that doll, and lucky to have profited from being its caretaker before it has gone to its next time. Using this layby theory maybe we can consider the markup storage fees? something like that?

I hate to say it but entitlement complexes are running rampant in society, and tend to be worse in luxury hobbies like BJD ownership. In modern society people are taught a lot about their rights, but nothing about their responsibilities. They end up not understanding the difference to entitlement and privilege.

You have the right to enjoy your hobby within your means.
You have the right to love whichever dolls you love.
you have the right to sell and buy dolls according to your budget and desires within the bounds of the law and forum rules.

You MAY have the privilege to own your dream doll, but then you may have the misfortune not to.
You MAY have the privilege to purchase a doll at the factory release price, but you may have the misfortune to have to pay a price dictated by the economic principles of supply and demand and you may also have the misfortune of not being able to afford your dream doll at all

owning the doll you want is a privilege, being able sell a doll you own and paid for at a price you set is a right (part of the rights of ownership see?)

I am NOT saying I like when scalpers go and buy out limiteds as an investment just to resell them later at inflated prices, however it is within their rights to do so. Is it wrong? no. Is it something that we doll lovers LIKE? or even should like? no again, we have the right not to like it, but that does not change the seller's right to do it It is their privilege to own the doll and their right as the owner to sell it for a price they set, or not to sell it at all.


After all that ranting I want to add that I also hate seeing the owners of dolls feeling the need to justify the sale. My doll, I want to sell it, the reasons I am selling are MY reasons, if you want to buy what does my reason for selling have to do with it unless the doll is faulty in which case I will tell you that as part of transparency in a transaction.

*gets off high horse now, brushes it down, puts it back in the stable till the next trot out*

 

Unless its a LE or something Sold Out, no, I don't think it's particularly ok.

I usually start at 75% of what I paid for something. I think normal wear and tear is going to bring it down that much by itself.

But, I take my stand by just not buying anything I think is over priced.

 

Yep, it's ok to say that you should resell for the money you paid, but if you were the one who had happened to buy say a Volks Madoka - that frequently resells for $3000 or won the lottery for a Bermann which have sold for up to $6000 - would you be reselling for the price you paid if you decided you no longer wanted to keep the doll? And if you did, how would you feel if the person turned around a month later and resold the doll for market value? It's fine to say that you'll only sell to a friend who will look after the doll, but it's amazing how often when it comes time to sell, the person looks to get market value. Even though I resold Sard and Beryl for a profit, they are the only two dolls I have ever made a profit on. I still consider that overall I'm behind in regards to this hobby. Personally I don't care, I don't buy dolls for resale and I think it would be risky for people who did. As for why people make excuses for reselling dolls - look at some of the responses on this thread. When I first started in this hobby, I felt that it was wrong to resell dolls for a profit and I deliberately didn't charge market value for a limited doll only to see it back on the market in less than a month at double the price I'd sold it for. Now that leaves a sour taste in your mouth.

 

I do have a problem with buying a very limited doll for the sole purpose of reselling it after arrival, without even opening the box, for the sole purpose of profit. I dont know why I feel this way, i would not have any problem if you would substitute the word doll for some other commercially sold object like "peanuts". If you ask me if it is ok to buy peanuts and then resell them at a higher price, id have no problems at all. Perhaps it is the human shape that makes me feel this way.

What would really, really bug me is if i sold a doll to someone for lets say 300 and i would see them reselling within a couple of days for 600. That would bug me.

However, the price of all collectable objects can increase or decrease over time. Basically, collectables are worth what someone is willing to pay.

If someone has bought a doll for themselves, decides she cant bond or needs to sell for other reasons and the market value has gone up. I have no problem at all with asking more.

If you ask a ridicoulous price, no one will be willing to buy anyway.

I have for as far as I can recall, never priced a doll up, but did pay more for limiteds.

 

I'm a doll lover, and I actually love that people do it. Why? Because it ensures that someday I can get a new limited doll that I want. To some people it doesn't matter if it's new or used, but for me with some special dolls, it does.

So the idea of "Buy, not bond, sell." isn't what I'd go for if I had a choice, as it is still a used doll. Without resellers I'd never be able to find a new, in the box, never played with, 4 year old model of a doll I want. I am honestly thankful to such people.

 

This is completely true.
I have bought dolls which I could not get directly from the companies (due to various reasons) at what some other posters of this thread are calling "ridiculous" prices. I have sold dolls at very discounted prices - I had sold a LE doll for $200 less than what I had paid because no one wanted him in 2009. I had given a head out for FREE since NO ONE WANTED him and he was originally highly sought after when he was made.


So it is then also "unfair" in those cases when the dolls lose their value??

There are many business practices which people may consider them to be unfair, but that is life.

(example, as Korean Wen gone down in value, a few companies changed their prices listed in USD. Others did not, so in reality, they are getting 22% more money after the currency exchange since April of last year.... so is that fair?? )

Rikka_Mika I agree, some Japanese collectors keep their doll in mint condition, so to me it is worth it (the extra money is the interest for holding the doll and stand in doll at Dolpa LOL)

 

I really feel it depends on the situation. I don't agree on people buying a stack of limiteds just so they can then sell the off straight afterwards for a ridiculous price.. I hate scalping.

However, I do believe the value of the doll can fluctuate, especially with Dollshe's which I have a hankering for hehe.

I guess you couldn't really prove someone was a scalper unless they did it all the time. I don't want to stick my perspective on others in this, I just know that personally I sell mine for what I paid for them if I decided I didn't want them anymore.

 

Of course not. Because people don't care about that. You selling things cheaper than their value isn't stopping them from what they want right this very second with no waiting and saving needed! So it's totally alright!

In most cases that is impossible, buying 'stacks' of limiteds. I am only aware of two companies who will allow someone to purchase more than 1 of a limited doll.

 

To me, it depends on the person's take on reselling at a higher value. Personally I haven't bought a second-hand doll for more than the original price, but I understand why some dolls sell for more than they originally cost - the supply-and-demand thing.

However, I disapprove when I see people selling limited edition dolls (often seen with Soom MDs) for double price or similar, where they never have been in use, but just have been in the box. That seems like too much speculation for me! I think it's fair to sell your beloved doll for how much you think it's worth, not hoarding/scrounging dolls with the only purpose being later resale.
For example, I would much rather buy e.g. a Euclase that the owner seemed to have used/faceupped/played with, than I would buy one that only had been in storage, and 'never used'. Of course, there are exceptions where people buy a doll, and never get around to do anything about them, and then choose to sell them, as they know they will not get around to do what intended. But I have seen sales threads with handfuls of limiteds, that were in a *very* unused state. I think that's too cold calculation for my taste. Of course, what people do with their things and money, even scrounging, is of their own business, but I do not like the cold calculation in it.

 

Supply and demand! You would not sell an item that appreciated 10x's its value for the original price "just to be nice". This is not a debate topic.
This is about what some one thinks is wrong or right. There is no wrong or right answer.

 

I suppose you could also look at it a different way. Perhaps when a limited was released, a person didn't have the money to buy it. Wanted to, but couldn't. Then, a year or so later, finances have stabilized, they have the money, and someone decides to sell that LE doll. For the chance of getting something that was really wanted, but for whatever reason couldn't when it was actually released, most people would pay the markup. It's like a second chance at a dream doll.