Resale Overprice (foreal)

Yeah, I love the people who get upset about price hiking. I've sold Sard and Beryl for more than I paid to people who were happy to buy them even at an inflated price. I also have a list of people I've sold normal dolls to for less than I paid. I don't hear anyone grumbling that paying less destroys our hobby. I've dolls that I'd like to get, some of which are out of my price range. I know with the Soom monthly dolls, it's not guaranteed that every dolls sells at a higher price. I've bought Euclase and Vesuvia and I don't think they're reselling for huge sums. I don't care, they're different and I like them. Market value is what people are willing to pay so you may as well grumble over the people willing to pay $2000 for a secondhand doll. The person who complained then sold Beryl for $2000 is a classic example. By his/her own lecturing, they should have resold for purchase price. There are quite a few examples of sellers who have kindly agreed to sell a limited doll for purchase price to a desperate buyer only to have them turn around and say they weren't able to bond etc, needed the money for another doll and then sell the item for a marked up price. You don't see those principled people paying the original seller any of their profits either.

 

I also wanted to add... to those who may say "we don't resale for twice what we bought if for..." We actually do. That's how retail works. Stores buy things at wholesale prices and then jack up the price to twice its amount to make a profit. That's why wholesale prices and retail prices are two different things. When you see a book, it usually says on the cover "Suggested retail price." Ever wonder how bookstores are able to offer 30% off the cover price? Because they don't pay the cover price. They pay maybe 50% the cover price so they are still making 20% profit even if you are getting a 30% discount.

 

This entire debate issue, if it could be considered that, is targeting individuals who live in a capitalistic society. I doubt any individual who benefits from the system could be objective, to be honest, and that includes the majority of the people in the world who can afford luxury items like dolls. That said, this has always happened with dolls and any item worth any amount of money, because if there is someone willing to pay the price there will be someone willing to sell.

The real question isn't whether this is right or wrong. Societal norms dictate that this is in fact a normal part of collecting no matter what one collects. The question is how one wishes to portray oneself in the community.

In my opinion, there are two kinds of collectors: The ME collectors and the WE collectors. The ME collectors collect for no one except themselves and in the process it doesn't matter who gets hurt or what the cost is. The WE collectors consider the community and do things in a way that benefits the community. People can also start of as WE collectors and gradually become ME collectors because the ME collectors seem to have it better off when it comes to their collections (i.e. they seem to have more and better dolls). Others may even flip-flop from ME to WE and WE to ME depending on the doll in question and the person's frame of mind at the time. In addition, larger communities like this one breed the ME collectors because there are so many strangers that it is easy to forget that behind the screen name is a real human being with feelings.

Personally, I think if someone wants to pay an extravagant price for a doll then let them. Some people have more money. That's capitalism and that's the way it works. Life isn't fair. But, life is about choices. And one can choose which dolls one buys and which dolls one sells and how to set prices from that point. The only actions one can control are one's own.

I also think starting an auction for a high in demand item at the retail price is a smart thing to do, particularly for items that are difficult to obtain. Sometimes, people go to great efforts to obtain these dolls and should be paid for their efforts. How much? Well, I think that should be up to the buyers. I think buyers should set the prices, not sellers, because it is more respectful of the community. But that is ~my~ perspective and I think everyone is entitled to their own view on it.

The people asking for a lot for their items (i.e. twice the retail price or more is what I would consider to be "a lot") are free to do so and I wouldn't consider it "wrong", but I would likely think of those individuals as people I'd rather not deal with in any capacity, because I personally see it as disrespectful of the community. But, that is ~me~ and my view. I choose who I buy from, sell to, communicate with and all that jazz. That's my choice.

One of the beauties of collecting dolls is that you can be as individual or as community-oriented as you want to be. But, with that comes behaviors from people who are not like you and will make different choices. Live and let live. It would be pretty boring if we were all the same and saw things the same way.

 

I agree with most that "double pricing" is a bit ridiculous. However, adding a few hundered dollars for a very limited doll, such as a soom monthly, A volks one-off, or even the VERY limited narcatana circus dolls, i see nothing wrong with. I recently had a few people interested in buying my kamau. Some thought my price was overprice, some thought it was a fair price, considering his limited, month-long sale. So i guess it really comes down to what is the buyer willing to pay. If i see a doll i love, and they keep selling on the marketplace for 2000 dollars, when they were originally 1000, then i guess that is the going rate, and i just have to deal with it. I would love to have a Euclase. however, i'm just not willing to pay 1500 dollars for him. HOwever, i've seen him go for that and more.

Some examples of dolls that i feel are justifiable in their heightened price?

EID Kamau
EID 'tan' Akando, Ivan, and Luo
The other Narcatana limited dolls, with the rarer skin tones.

any volks one-offs, or super rares.

Soom Monthly Dolls.

Now, i agree, asking 1200 dollars for an El, Lishe, Etc is just a tad silly. Even the Tan versions i've seen on the marketplace for under 800.

 

Heck.... A doll is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it.... I saw a beauftiully painted Bobobie Green March (I forget who's now sorry...) Sell on ebay fom somewheer around the $500-$550 mark..... thats 5 times the retail price and then-some..... I wouldnt have paid it but someone wanted it badly enough.

Would I pay twice the retail price for something.... Yes if I wanted it badly enough.... If anyone were selling a Berman at the moment I'd trade them for my Mercedes LOL

Though I did see a Soom MD going at a RIDICULOUS price in the MP using my personal "mental reasoning" but the seller simply said - "thats what I want... and If someone is willing to pay it then great if not she'll stay with me...."

 

I think it's flipping RIDICULOUS. I was actually looking for a Soom Beryl and was DISGUSTED. The doll itself sold for 718 or something dollars.

Someone had JUST THE HOOVES on sale for 500. Then another person had only the body for close to a thousand while one more had only the human form for 1400. It's inane!!! They doubled the price since it was a limited, and not even for the full set/original blushing/all of the parts.

Even if it STILL had the original parts, doubling the flipping price is just ridiculous. Anyone who'd be willing to pay for that is as equally ridiculous.

 

It's not "wrong" to sell a doll for twice or even two-thirds the price you got it for. Either someone will buy it or they won't. Heck, if I won something like a Volks lottery doll I would probably turn around and scalp it myself if I suddenly needed the cash. If an item is priced too high, nobody will buy it and eventually the seller will be forced to lower the price.

I remember one day in the Marketplace there was somebody selling a basic Lishe HEAD ONLY with a DEFAULT FACEUP for around $500. So many people spammed the thread with "OMG way too expensive" comments that the mods had to step in and I think they locked the thread temporarily. Not sure whatever happened to the $500 Lishe head, but it was pretty funny!

 

Usually, if I'm selling a doll or a head, I just want to get my money back. I'm not trying rip anyone off or anything, and I think most people feel the same. That said: If you feel the need to get back your money for the wig, the eyes, and outfit that you bought the doll then I think that's kinda just a little bit unfair- no one asked you to buy the outfit, and if you sell the doll, it's probably better to just sell the outfit separately, and that said, I think most people do that too. What I really object to- and what I'm not sure whether most people do or not- is sell the doll for the list price, plus the shipping you paid, plus a little extra for profit, plus shipping for the new buyer. I think that's totally unfair. It's cool if you want your money back- I know I would! But to add on all that seems really quite unfair. That said, I'll point to what someone else said earlier: if the buyer is willing to pay it, then it's not overpriced. So this argument is really moot- sure it's not fair to over price a doll on purpose, but that means that the decision to overprice and the fairness or unfairness therein lies entirely with the seller (as it always has done.) In short, if someone bought it then they got suckered- but you-as the seller- are the only one who will know or care. If you price a doll fairly and sell it for a little less even, then you as the seller is again, the only one who will know or care. Again, moot.

 

Speak for yourself - since you can't get that doll anywhere else, all you're doing is missing out. There are plenty of non-ridiculous people who are happy to pay any price for the limited doll of their dreams. I guess you haven't spent much time around collectors!

Aspiring price-police need to keep their mouths shut & let commerce do its own thing.

 

Before shipping, blank, naked, eyeless, and wigless, perhaps. That base price listed on the Soom site is... deceptive at best. So expecting the blushed full doll for $718 isn't something you would have even gotten from Soom at retail. It's really a shame they don't have the Post-MD Event info listed any longer, because it had the real price of those fullsets (without sanding, which a lot of people opted for when ordering) listed -- which was often far, far higher than the base price people seem to keep citing endlessly and expecting to be what they should find fullsets for on the secondary market.

If I could find a blank Beryl for $1400 -- and I had it, which I freshly don't, alas -- I would leap on it faster than a blink without a shred of regret.

 

The market bears what the market bears. If there are more people wanting a certain doll than there are ones of that doll available it becomes collectible and the price will be high, that's just how life works. It's not uncommon for ANY collectible to double or more in value once it's out of production. I seriously doubt there are any comic book collectors who would expect a Superman #1 to still sell for 10 cents (or even the current cost equivalent), even in non-pristine condition.

I'm not interested in Beryl, but if I won the lottery and saw a Sard for almost any price I'd jump on it without pausing longer than necessary to check the seller's feedback. Or a gray Kalix. Really would love one of those, LOL!

 

I think it's fine to treat collectibles as an investment. I don't see why the bjd hobby insists you must have this idealistic, pure-hearted love for the doll and never ever regard it as a commodity. o_0

If someone manages to make a huge profit on their doll sale, I say congratulations to them. They were lucky and/or wise enough to buy at the right time and sell at the right time (though time will tell... you never know, this is a young hobby and maybe they'll be kicking themselves years down the line when the price rises even higher).

Scalping, I object to, because it causes artificial inflation. But flipping the doll after some time, I don't have a problem with at all. If the market value rose naturally due to scarcity/demand, that is totally fair.

I do think it's weird to see people try to sell a doll that has devalued, for the same price they paid for it. I often see things like "I know this price seems high, but it's less than what I paid..." and I wonder, does writing something like that actually work at all? I mean, why would I be inclined to pay above the current market value in order to lessen your loss? Out of pity? I don't get it. Ditto for people who think you're going to buy their "almost new" doll for the same/greater price than getting it straight from the original company/artisan. I suppose someone might be interested in order to save time, but...

 

I assume you're not talking about limiteds or discontinued sculpts... if you cannot get the doll from the manufacturer anymore, and it's highly desired, then, yeah, good luck finding it at its original retail price (or cheaper). And yes, that does work: people can sell a doll for the same inflated price they paid, and they can easily get their price, because the doll is just not available elsewhere. (I did the Happy Dance to find my Volks Genji repaint for a mere $1700, & I've seen other Genjis go for way more than that.)

But even for standard sculpts, if somebody's selling a secondhand standard at its original retail price, ALSO yes-- there ARE plenty of people who'd buy it for the "convenience factor". They may not wish to pay international shipping, or they may not want to have to send it out for a faceup, or they may just wish to save time & hassle. These factors can add up to be worth quite a lot of money to that buyer. People like convenience: Think of how many people happily pay for taxicabs when they could easily walk those 10 blocks across town, and think of how many people happily pay for wash-n-fold laundry that they could do at home themselves.

Or... the buyer may simply like that particular secondhand doll, for whatever aesthetic/emotional reasons, & be happy to pay its regular retail price. In that case everybody's happy!

 

When there isn't force or fraud, I can't see why people can't let the free market work whether they price their items at a high price or not.

 

I don't understand how you can get mad at sellers for asking more for a doll. They're not forcing you to buy it. Even if they're just out to scalp, they thought ahead so that now you have the ability to own it. I completely missed out on Chrom, well sucks to be me. But because someone sold him on the second hand market I can still have the chance to own him, for a higher price - but that's my bad for missing out in the first place. But now I have him, and I definitely paid over the original price. I have no problem with that.

Sure, seeing a doll you covet on sale for 2K or more can sting a bit. But you can't blame the seller. I couldn't afford that (ok I could if I would save) but that's my problem. No one is really entitled to anything. I would also love a Lamborghini, does that mean someone will sell me one for 20K because I deem that's fair? To bad the world doesn't work that way.

 

I always thought that the 'wiser' thing to do was to sell the doll a little BELOW it's official market value.
I personally would not buy from a seller that was selling it for the 'same' only because If something happens to it,
and I bought it from the company, they may be able to help?

Though if you do it to kill the cost of shipping by a good amount than I would see buying it then.

But it's used, you have no way to prove it's overall health, and it honestly feels like you're being ripped off.

I just feel that it's a bit dis-honorable to hack up the price for no reason other than greed.

 

Found it! Go here:

http://www.denofangels.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5256823

Price:
Beryl $1,145.00
Sard $1,201.00
Onyx (CW) $1,033.00
Onyx (G) $1,033.00
Bix $1,223.00
I.O (CW) $1,236.00
I.O (N) $1,236.00
Topaz $1,034.00
Euclase $1,194.00
Vesuvia $1,023.00

The $718 for Beryl was for the nude, unpainted doll. No wig, no eyes, no faceup, no blushing, no nothing.

Here's the reality. It's either worth it or it's not. If you want something badly enough, then you'll do what's necessary to acquire it/make it happen. Standing around stamping and crying in a misguided attempt to guilt people into pricing things down for you is a waste of time better spent elsewhere.

 

I'm with you AnnoDomini. Sometimes it just seems like greed. I understand the seller has the right to do what they please, but it still is just a bit mean, eh?
For instance, I was looking for a certain soom doll, with fantasy parts, blank. I came across one, the head and body but no fantasy parts for the same price soom sold it with the fantasy. The seller said they would let the parts go for an extra three hundred or so. I found that extremely greedy. There is no way their shipping cost that extra three hundred they were asking for. I found the same doll, fullset for only one hundred more!

I 100% agree with wanting your original price paid back, that is fair. But in some cases, raising the price extremely high is a little greedy.


I also want to bring up this issue, I am sure it happens with many LE sculpts, but I mainly see it with sooms:
It seems like many people buy the MD doll, and the moment they get it, within a week they go and sell it (with raised prices). I know some people just dont bond well with their sculpts, understandable, but there is an unusually large amount of soom MDs that are sold right after they are received. The seller usually makes all their money back with their price, as well as extra. Feels like a monopoly sometimes.

 

I don't think you understand what a monopoly is. What you describe is almost the exact opposite of a monopoly -- it's a bunch of completely unrelated sellers with no particular restraints on how they sell or at what price selling an item at whatever price the market will bear.

It sucks if a limited edition doll is priced out of your ability or desire to pay for it but IMO that doesn't make people selling the doll at that price wrong and I don't think you're ever going to convince doll owners to come together and sell only at prices you think are fair. The fact of the matter is that people are going to sell dolls for as much as they think they can get for those dolls. If you're against people selling dolls at an inflated price, I suggest you don't buy from them.

 

You dont have to suggest it, I choose not to. I was not complaining about how that one doll was too expensive, I was just stating what I have seen on the marketplace. I just find it odd that the common seller inflates the price of their LE's to make some extra cash. Obviously my views do not match anyone elses. When I sold my MD IO I sold at the same price I spent, doll+extras+shipping, it just did not seem fair to the buyer to have to pay me extra for originally buying the doll.
No seller is going to stop raising the prices. The point of the thread is not to try and convince everyone to sell at a 'fair' price, it is just to discuss the matter of it. Some people are okay with it, some are not.