reviewing fluorescent light and it's affects on resin (safe? extremely damaging?)

Seemingly you may know little about the humor implied in my reply as well. Or discussion, in general. I am answering the thread, as is the right for anyone on the forum, including myself.
Sakuraharu did not only state her observations and opinions, she was replying to something I had said, so therfore I answered her back. I don't feel threatened at all. Is someone threatening me? No. I answered back. Thereby continuing the discussion.
There has been no different opinion in this thread, or observation. There has been no conclusion.
The topic of this thread was "Where'd the damaging florescent light theory come from?(disproved) Not "what is the science behind yellowing".

 

Mod has spoken. Simple and sweet: if you feel that what you are trying to say is being 'incorrectly' interpreted, perhaps you need to re-read what you've written before posting. Also, granted, I was incorrect regarding the original question of the thread but one cannot deny that it is a part of the discussion, and the obvious logical beginning to solving and understanding the primary question.

 

I'm not a scientist, nor am I conducting any experiments, but I will comment on knibitz's question of "where did this fear come from'?

To me, its not an irrational fear, but common sense. I collect lots of things made out of a variety of materials. I live in a hot dry dusty desert. And I know which figures/etc have been on the shelve and which were in the box because the ones that sit out have damage.Nothing goes outside. I don't touch anything with dirty hands. Nothing is sitting in direct sunlight and i have Air conditioning in my home. BUT that doesn't stop the things that are sitting out from turning yellow/pale/green/brown/etc.

Therefore, I, with no science to back me up, would not leave my doll exposed in a room with florescent lighting for any long period of time because I believe the doll will be damaged.

Hope that helps.

 

It is interesting I think with the forum work being done I found that if you quote a reply you may get to see another version (possibly a previously posted one) of the reply that is on the thread.
I don't really understand why, but a post that I had just written was deleted, in which I had written that the most yellowed doll that is in my home is one that is kept in a room lit by florescent lights.
One thing that I note from skyealloway's post, I wonder if the change in the resin that is indicated by color is damage (like more brittleness or other weakness or instability) or just pigment or color change?

 

sakuraharu, thank you for the scientific insights and plain-English translations! I had never considered that yellowing could be as much a pigment change as resin degradation, but the more i think about it, the more plausible it becomes. I should know this, especially after my years working in lithography and painting murals, but... I guess it's one of those derp moments for me! titanium dioxide DOES yellow like crazy, and many red/purple pigments- especially cadmium red, augh- are notoriously not light resistant. Even alizarin crimson can be a bit on the fade-y side, and it's supposed to be one of the most fadeproof red pigments out there. So it would definitely depend on the pigments being used in the resin- and any possible chemical reactions within the resin from heat could worsen it.

I wonder if that's why some tan resins turn green? A side-effect of the red pigment degrading?

As for me, I prefer keeping my dolls in indirect light, no matter the type. I'd prefer to use fluorescent lighting, but it triggers my migraines at times, so I make do with a shaded low-watt bulb and a blinded window placed far far enough away that no direct sunlight can even reach my dolls.

 

I think this is a really great idea-- although I truly believe that anyone can do science. It's a way of tackling a question, that is all. I think I will ask my eleven year old son if he's like to do a study on resin yellowing for next year's science fair. (He won first place this year! :end gratuitous bragging) There actually is a TON of evidence out there for what causes yellowing in different forms of polyurethane (like carpet padding and upholstery foam, etc.-- the web site I linked to earlier has lots of info) but it would be great to have something doll specific.

Stella Maris, I don't think anyone is looking for a "throw down" here. As nanlady pointed out, this is what a discussion looks like.

 

Yeah, I left out the fact that I recall going to the Ginza Sumika and all the FCS heads in the case (which were nowhere near the window, but were under fluorescent lighting) were dramatically yellowed. I was already going long in my post .

Asking the companies first before experimenting is probably a good idea.

 

I think you are right about red pigment degradation as the cause of greening. But depending on what pigment mixture a company is using, loss of red could also account for yellowing in a doll-- if there is yellow pigment in the original mixture.

(As an aside, some paint companies, like Golden are nice enough to label their paints with stability information-- I've been trying to stick with the more stable ones for painting doll stuff.)

I think your approach, like idrisfynn's makes a lot of sense. If a doll kept under fluorescents is yellowing like crazy (observation), and you think fluorescents may be the cause (hypothesis) it would be foolish to continue storing it there until there is hard evidence that the fluorescents are the cause.

 

I think you may have misread; I'm not talking about every potential anything. I'm talking about light and doll "skin" coloration. Discussion of the resin alone is not particularly helpful because as I (and others before and after) have mentioned, the pigmentation is also a notable factor to be considered. While I am sure there are some dolls out there with unpigmented resin, I would be inclined to believe that it would be a minority of the dolls available on the market today.

 

Ohh this is a great topic i was just talking about this to a pal.

I'm not all that smart, but from what I gather: (a) heat is bad and (b) UV is bad...

so then if i want to preserve my doll's colour would doing the following help?

(1) coating it in MSC all over with the idea that it would help slow down oxydation on the outer surface at least.

(2) keep my dolls in their boxes when i dont play with them.

(3) keep the boxes in relatively cool room.

(4) make sure i handle the dolls with clean hands to minimise staining in general and other crap bonding to the msc which can potentially strip it.

 

Yeah I noticed this too! Those lights were pretty intense hot in there....and those dolls were like butter yellow @_@

 

Doesn't matter what the lighting in my home is, because none of the things I collect other than BJDs are resin. Like I said, I'm not conducting an experiment. You asked me where the 'fear' came from, and I gave an answer. I'm not saying it's true, nor am I going to argue as to its trueness, because I'm not a scientist.

 

sakuraharu, that was a joke. Maybe not a great one, but still, relax. I am not questioning your clearly more advanced scientific expertise what I still maintain is that there would have to be a great deal more research done to either prove or dis-prove what we are discussing.
Casually, as a non-experimenter in this situation, if I were looking for advice I would be more likely to listen to the experiences of idrisfynn.
Maybe you sakuraharu could weigh in on something that this has caused me to think about, would the color temperature of the bulbs make a difference? There are some newer cooler ones. I mean cool as in bluer.

 

It really didn't seem like it, given that you also said how much you hated science in the same post, Stella Maris. Maybe you should rethink your communication style.

Regardless, I'm pretty relaxed here, and enjoying the conversation.

Cool/warm color of bulbs is an interesting idea. Short answer: I have no idea. Most of the stuff I've read on photodegradation talks about UV. But there is little if any UV in most fluorescent lights and fading still happens under them. One of the classrooms I use has no windows and the colors of posters, etc., still fade over time. Whether that is due to the fluorescent lighting or some other factor is unknown (by me!).

The "cooler" colors of light are actually higher energy than the "warmer" ones, so if I had to guess, I'd say the cool ones would cause more damage. That's really counterintuitive, to me at least. And it would be a wild a** guess, nothing more. Another good science fair experiment, I'd say.

 

Sakuraharu, in this potential science fair project, could a normal light bulb exposure also be considered as another type of control for this experiment? Now there just need to be four fresh, identical, untainted resin samples, perhaps a couple sets from varied company sources as companies do vary their recipes, & I'd love to see what the results would be. Hope your son or someone else finds this worth investigating.
Besides simply loving my dolls, my personal interest is due to the fact that some of my dolls travel with me (where heat could be a factor), one of my temporary work rooms is lit by florescent light (where the dolls spent two monthes last year) & also because before this discussion began I had found myself fumbling thru explaining the concern over florescent lighting to my scientifically minded spouse who was skeptical about this potential hazard.

 

Over here in the UK, you can't get tungsten bulbs anymore - only compact fluorescent bulbs. So you could only compare different types of fluoro lights - compacts, daylight simulation, strip - and halogens.