reviewing fluorescent light and it's affects on resin (safe? extremely damaging?)

Regardless normal bulbs are harmless or not. I still keep my dolls out. I mean why pay hundreds of dollars on a doll just to spend its time in a box in your closet and not enjoy it? My dolls stay in my bedroom which is the second darkest room in the house. Only time the sun shines is in the morning until noon then its dark again. Only time I put my dolls in their box is during the summer.

Back to the florescent topic. My dolls are exposed to my bedroom all the time, and yes I have been observing them for any color changes. My first doll which I got her in near the end of July showed no changes and she been sitting out since then, and by a lamp with 100 watt bulb. 5 months under florescent lights and no changes to the resin.

Whether the theory is correct or not. I still believe florescent is much safer then sticking your doll near a window with sun beaming in. Also common house light bulb is an incandescent light bulb which produce very little UV compare to florescent lighting. All my light bulbs in my room are under 100 watt minus the lamp I said above.

Just putting my 2 cents here...

 

cthulhu (love your user name) yes, I think a normal incandescent bulb would be worth trying, in the "cool" and "warm" varieties described above. There are some resins (used by dentists) that are polymerized by blue light, so even though it might not have as much energy as UV, it might be worth investigating. So I guess the test would include no light, fluorescent, "daylight" fluorescent, cool and warm incandescent, and UV light (either germicidal or the kind used for reptile tanks).

I may see if I can scavenge some doll parts in all three colors (white, NS, tan) from a variety of companies, too. It would be interesting to put together a large comparison of yellowing/fading for all of the companies, although that might be too much for a simple project. Assuming my son is interested, of course... but he's kind of geeky that way.

 

Thanks sakuraharu!
Knibitz, you had a good hunch asking what information is available on this subject. As an artist, I know I don't always want to put a lot of energy into the boring details of my business, such as taxes and inventory & can see how material testing wouldn't be as creatively satisfying as sculpting. It would be worth asking among the doll companies to see if any of them have put energy into product testing. Or perhaps the question would be better directed to the production houses which deal with the actual mechanics of the resin. Who new when this hobby began that there would be so many drawn to the dolls & willing to pay enough to expect long lasting quality equal to the price?!

 

For what it's worth, as someone who has worked in the lighting industry for the past three years, all artificial light sources contain UV, with the sole exception of LED. Quartz-Halogen bulbs are often given a UV filter, and thus used frequently in showcase lighting, but unfiltered, Halogen, Tungsten/Incandescent, Fluorescent... they all give off UV at different levels.

Tube fluorescents are the easiest for the end-user to filter. There are clear tube covers available (They usually run around $14) that you can slip over the tube and block all UV from penetrating. I've sold these repeatedly to customers with Lupis, who react very poorly to UV light.

That said, all fluorescents give off higher levels of UV than Halogen or Incandescent. This is due to the way a fluorescent produces light. The white phosphor coating on the inside of the bulb converts most of the generated UV light into visible light, but some slips through. Lampshades are known to fade more quickly when using CFLs.

With the new energy bill that passed, and the banning of incandescents by the year 2014, a collector who is particularly concerned about yellowing will have to either invest in LED, or carefully check the local Halogen selection to see which ones are filtered.

 

tygati, do you think that gel filters (I am thinking of the clear plastic sheet filters that we use in the film business to change color intensity and temperature) would make a difference or do the coatings that you sell contain specific UV filters?
Sakuraharu, I have as I am sure others do as well, some broken doll pieces (feet, hands) that I would be willing to donate if you wanted.
You might also check with artists like Lumedoll or even Armeleia for resin pieces, although you may want more "commercial" brands ie Luts, Volks etc.

 

No, filters meant for color alteration won't contain UV-blockers unless specifically stated. I don't believe I've ever seen a UV-filter which did anything else other than be a UV-filter. They're specific-purpose, since most ordinary people don't need them. ^^;

 

I really appreciate the informative thoughtful shift this thread has taken, & what you have added Tygati is great. Thanks!
Since my brain resists absorbing the more technical information, I want to thank those of you who can help "translate" for me!!

 

When I get home, I will see if I can get some comparison shots of my white ResinSoul Jun. Ze had a faceup, sealed with MSC UV-cut, sat around without a wig for a while, and then got wiped and re-done. While the MSC itself yellowed, the resin underneath stayed pristine scary stark white. Even though I know the MSC has yellowed again, you can see the difference in hir headcap and hir face. This is what leads me to believe most of the yellowing process is caused by UV.

There is also the conundrum of french resin, and it's extra-fast yellowing to consider. I've always been under the impression that it yellows faster, unless a UV protectant is added to the resin, because it is more translucent, and thus the light penetrates more of the resin.

also, Impldoll provides free resin samples on request, as long as you're willing to pay shipping.

 

I have an Off Topic BJD made of vinyl and an On Topic resin BJD. I've been told I ought to keep both away from fluroscent lighting, but in my household, that's actually something of a problem, as we had long ago switched to fluroescents when we discovered what a difference they make in our energy bills. While I make an effort not to shine a lamp directly on them, I had decided to simply keep my dolls out because I like playing with them and looking at them. As another mentioned, here, what's the point of spending money on these dolls if I'm only going to box them up and never touch or play with them?

I had gotten my resin boy, Adlewyrchiad, in September 2010, from Angel Street, with the "normal skin" option. He shows no visible sign of yellowing, which I'm very happy about. I really hope this holds true over the years!

My vinyl girl, Kyouko, is tanned a beautiful chocolate skin color that goes all the way through the vinyl. While I've shifted her body parts around, I have, of course, kept her head. Again, I see no discoloration to her skin. In addition, I've given her double-jointed resin limbs for their flexibility sometime in September or October of 2010. They are white colored limbs so that I could color match them to her vinyl body, but I've seen no signs of discoloration on them, either (although, I've noticed that the seams on her limbs seem prone to collecting dirt). Kyouko not only tends to be exposed to fluroscent lighting, but I also expose her to sunlight, as I like to take her out and about with me for company. I'm glad to say that she shows no signs of discoloring.

I'm actually very interested in knowing what effects different light sources have on both vinyl and resin. Again, while I may not go to extremes to keep them in pristine condition, I'd like to know what I can do to help keep them from getting ruined over the years. More, if anyone has any information or discovers any information on what can be done to actually prevent discoloration should these dolls be exposed to various light sources, I'd greatly love to know!

Actually, I have to admit that that's what greatly concerns me, most: Once we know the possible causes of doll discoloration, what magical chemical spray, etc., can we put on our dolls so that we can keep them protected from such discoloration so that we can continue playing with our dollies? I figure, wouldn't knowing the cause put us on the path to actually being able to directly halt the process of discoloration? Or am I asking too much?

 

I don't want to derail the original discussion of florescent damage fact or fiction. However, I do want to follow up on The Keeper's last comment as it fits perfectly with something I ran across yesterday.
A friend posted a recipe for "whitening" which she had good luck using on her doll that involved soaking in alcohol & scrubbing with Mr. Clean sponges. And because of this lighting discussion, her results raised more questions for me. This cleaning would suggest only the surface of the resin is affected, & either it is lightly sanding the surface or else the discoloration isn't extreme... Of course as it is dealing with white resin, it doesn't deal with the red pigment fading aspect which has been mentioned as a possible source of NS yellowing. And as I have admitted before, my thoughts always turn into a muddle when I attempt to get too analytical, which is why I will continue to follow all of these discussions!

 

Ah, thank you! I really have a limited idea of how anything effects the actual different rays of light, that is helpful. I wonder how the UV blockers work?

 

Will the normal skin french resin eventually become more yellow than the white?

 

This thread is so interesting!!! I've been thinking about the safety of flourescent lights since incandescent is becoming less available and soon will be obsolete. I've avoided all light for my dolls because I'm SO confused by the differing opinions on lighting. I keep them in the dark unless I'm actively playing with them.

So, I'm really encouraged to learn from Tygati that LED doesn't have UV. I've seen more and more LED products so maybe this will be something to investigate???

I currently use flourescent lamps that mimic natural light in my studio and I always worry that these are detrimental. But I have to see well so that's a risk I have to take.

Regarding the original gist of this thread: I know exactly where I got the notion that flourescent was BAD. First, if you want to grow plants indoors, they will thrive under flourescent lights. So, that made me think that flourescents have at least some of the same qualities as sunlight and that got me worried so I immediately believed anything bad I heard about flourescent. Then, I got my first Iplehouse doll and I read the "Important notice" sheet that came with her. Item 3 on that sheet says to minimize exposure to high temperature & humidity, direct sunlight and flourescent lamp lighting. So, based on these two things, I've been nervous about flourescents and hoping to learn more about good indoor lighting.

I hope people will continue to post their experiences. If anyone undertakes a real test experiment, the wrist hooks are available from Iplehouse for $1 each and they might be good for testing.

 

Commercially available LED lighting varies dramatically in quality right now as well. Additionally, they tend to vary in color temperature a lot. My parents bought one recently for about $60 and the light it puts out is very glarey and also very cool-toned despite being labeled "warm white" and claiming to be 3000k, so it looks pretty harsh and I wouldn't want it in my house (though I do tend to favor fairly warm-toned lights). I'm waiting to switch to LEDs until they come down in price and have standardized a bit quality-wise.

Gizmodo did a pretty interesting review of one brand of LED bulbs. They look pretty nice, but I'm hesitant to splash out $45 for a 60-watt equivalent bulb I'm not sure I'll even like.

Having said all that, if I did switch to LEDs it would have nothing to do with my dolls. I keep my dolls out all the time and they've spent the entire time I've owned them being exposed to a completely insane combination of incandescent, fluorescent, halogen, and natural-through-windows light (I've been switching to fluorescent bulbs for energy reasons as bulbs burn out -- I have 10-foot ceilings, changing a lightbulb isn't trivial. Also the lighting in my kitchen area uses halogen with a super weird connecter), and I haven't noticed any dramatic or uneven yellowing. My dolls yellow evenly even on parts of them that are under clothing or a wig all the time, so I'm pretty sure the primary cause of yellowing is just plain age as opposed to light. It's not something I really worry about.

 

Ah, I see I'm not the only one researching LED bulbs. *heh* I will be switching to those as soon as they fine-tune them a bit more, bypassing compact flourescents entirely.

I am another who keeps their dolls in a preferrably cool room, with heavy curtains over the windows...of course, that is in general just how I like to keep my room, dolls or no. ~__^ That said, yellowing does still occur even in that condition...but yellowing is inherent in the material used in our dolls. All I would like to do is limit the factors that could contribute to yellowing and pigment fading...and I know, from my experience, that UV light, even from flourescent lights, is one of the factors, and a controllable one.

Having worked in picture framing for years now (like overlordu) I have seen the effects or UV radiation on pigments...and as I also work in a retail environment lit by flourescent lighting, I have seen how those lights have that exact same effect on pigments over time. The effect is much slower than sunlight, to be sure...but that does not negate the fact that the lighting source still contains more UV than a basic incandescent bulb, and that will have more effect in the long term, even if it is just a minor effect. If, as the OP posted, 20 days of flourescent exposure equal one hour in sunlight...that means one year of having a flourescent light shining directly on your doll under those conditions = leaving it sitting in the sunlight for 18 hours. I for one don't want my dolls to sit in sunlight for one hour, much less 18.

 

Hm... so if I'm understand things, correctly, because I'm still very much learning about BJDs and their care, when discussing BJD discoloration, more than simply the type of material the BJD is made out of comes into play? A lot can also do with the kind of pigmentation used to give the BJD its skin tone? This is why fluorescent lighting can have dramatic effects on one doll, while leaving another doll seemingly unaffected?

While LED lights seem like a good alternative for SLOWING DOWN the process of BJD discoloration, I noticed that in previous posts, people have said that this still wouldn't actually STOP the process of discoloration, as lighting and heat are only catalysts for a process that is actually already occurring in our dolls. Currently, the only way to truly preserve them is to keep them in some type of vaccuum-sealed environment? How likely is it that a product, such as a chemical sealant/stabilizer, can and/or will be developed to stop this process without our having to go to such extremes to keep our dolls looking nice? And am I going way off topic? (Sorry if I am!)

 

I have a friend who designs and imports LED lamps and he has similar things to say. As each LED gives off a specific color, many "white light" lamps are made of a combination of different colored LEDs. The problem is that they don't all have the same intensity nor do all of the component lamps last the same amount of time. So he has had "warm" lamps go pink on him after a month of two, problems finding factories with high enough quality control standards, etc. It would definitely be worthwhile to wait on these, IMO

This is a great idea! Can I contact you in a few months about the broken pieces? My son just finished science fair for the year, so he wouldn't want to work on this right away.

Tygati, are the UV filters you mentioned 100% effective at blocking the full range of UV? The ones I've seen online do a great job at blocking UVB, but only 80% of UVA. And it's the same story for special UV blocking plexiglas, btw. Not 100% effective. Although certainly it would help!

knibitz, could you give the source for the 20 hours of fluorescent lighting equals 1 hour of sunlight rule?

I am having problems buying it.

Not to go all super nerdy on everyone, but intensity of light (and intensity of UV hitting a doll) depends on distance. It's going to take longer for a ceiling lamp to effect a doll than a lamp in a doll case, for instance. And there's wattage to consider, too. Some lights are brighter than others. But even if we are comparing two lamps of the same wattage, just placed different distances from the doll, it's important to consider that the relationship isn't linear.

In English, if you hold a flashlight an inch away from the wall and look at the circle of light it makes, it should be very small circle that is very bright. That's because most of the rays are hitting a very small spot. If you double the distance to 2 inches, the circle will be more than twice as big. It will be four times bigger in area, actually. And the intensity will be four times less than it was at 1 inch. So a fluorescent lamp lighting a doll case (maybe 12 inches from the doll) is going to be (in theory) 49 times more intense than a ceiling lamp that is 7 feet from the dolls. That's a huge difference. IRL, because light is bouncing off the wall, not emanating from a point source, etc., it won't be quite as extreme, but there will still be a considerable difference. Definitely something to think about.

This is why in tanning beds the light source is only inches away from you. The light hits you more intensely that way, tanning (and damaging) you faster than if you sat in a room with same lights mounted on the wall or ceiling.

 

Oh, I highly doubt it. Those I've ordered for people have been for artists in studios, and persons with the disease Lupis. For those applications, the UV filters do the job sufficiently.