Ring Doll Teens

I saw the new doll of Ringdoll on their facebook called Chai just now http://www.facebook.com/ringdoll?v=...9&set=a.168103796563821.31873.146868812020653. They said he was a new head ^ ^

 

I don't get this whole argument that it's fine for Ringdoll to be "inspired" by Grell just because there are other companies doing the same thing. Just because other people are doing something wrong doesn't make it right. It may not be a carbon copy but it's definitely waaaayyyyyy too similar to be just an inspiration rather than an imitation.

 

My two:
it's not thta RingDoll doing something right just beacause other companies did.What i'm trying to say is that whos complain about it should be fair,i don't see why only complain about RingDoll while no one did it with other companies.

I'm also quite disappointed that RingDoll putting any update on facebook,i'm not used ti this and i badly wish to see any update on their web site...

 

Just get an update from twitter via facebook from RingDoll about Judges:

 

God... Ringdoll claimed to discontiued the Judges just now on facebook. cannot find the name on their website either * *

 

such sad about this.....

 

So finally the complainers obtained what the badly wish.

 

I think this is kind of a shame, honestly... I mean, no one should have the right to copy anyone's intellectual property, but it really was a neat head. You don't often see an interesting expression like that on a BJD. I think they could rebrand him with a different face-up and clothes and make quite a lovely and original doll.

 

Honestly, I think it's lame that everyone got so up in arms about this doll. He was cool and it would have been nice for people to buy this doll as a nice item to add to a collection.
I mean, I don't get why people are up in arms over this but no one seems to have a problem with the seemingly hundreds of celebirty, musician and anime character Minimee orders going on in the Marketplace.
Just seems a tad hypocritical to me.

 

The head is the Spencer sculpt that had already been released.

 

Oh, he is? ... In that case, I guess my point is moot.

 

I honestly don't understand some of you got so upset over this. Yes, Judges was heavily influenced by Grell's design, but he is not Grell by any means, so to jump all over the company saying "It's an exact replica!" is really just a load of bull. Let's break down the facts here:

First of all- this is not a New Sculpt, it's an EXISTING sculpt with another faceup, meaning that no one went "OMG! That doll -Spencer- looks like Grell!" and had a hissyfit when he was first released, meaning that they didn't just sculpt a head to look Exactly like Grell because the Spencer sculpt already existed. Has no one seen the DIM MNM heads that have been sculpted recently? I'm guessing not. Shall I retrieve pictures so we can see them side by side?

On the right is a DIM MNM head that was sculpted to look Exactly like Grell, on the right is a photograph of Ringdoll's Spencer, the sculpt they used as a base for building the Judges doll. Now- does Spencer look anything like Grell in the face? No, no he doesn't. Need I point out the differences? The size and shape of the eyes, the shape and size of the nose, the size of the mouth, the size of the lips, the size of the teeth, the shape of the chin, the point in his ears, Spencer has chubbier cheeks, and Grell's face is more long and lean. These are two completely different faces.

Now then- let's talk Clothing, accessories, and faceup, through which Ringdoll took Artistic Liberties to recreate a beloved character. Here is a comparison of the outfits side-by-side:

The outfit on the Left is a recreation of Grell in Pullip form (duh), and on the right is Ringdoll Judges' outfit. Let's go through the comparison one more time, shall we? First we'll start with similarities- black slacks, red overcoat, white dress shirt, red and white striped bowtie, and black gloves. Who's to say someone couldn't have come up with this combination on their own? I'm sure it's been done before, just not in an obscenely popular anime. Now then, down to the differences- we'll start with the feet and work our way up.
Grell's boots are covered by the slacks he is wearing, whereas Judges is wearing a pair of long riding boots that come up Above the knee (not to mention, these were boots that Ringdoll was already selling prior to the release of this doll). Grell's pants are plain black, while Judges' are two-toned near the pockets at the waist; there is also a chain on one of his hips that is not present in Grell's character design. As for the vests, not only are they two completely different styles, they are also different colors. Grell's is Collared and black/Gray and Judges' is kind of an orangy brown with a pattern on it. Grell's white dress shirt have ruffled cuffs on the sleeves, and at the collar, whereas Judges' are "normal". Grell is wearing a tied bow, whereas Judges is wearing a bowtie. Grell is wearing the butler cuffs on his arms, Judges is not. And the Jackets, well, they don't even look the same at all. Grell's is simple- bright red with a stand-up collar, whereas Judges' coat is much more complex- not only is it Lined, it has two different fabric patterns on the outside, it's slit to the hip on both sides, the collar lays flat against the body, and it has that quirkly little belt-bow thing that could tie in the front if you wanted it to.
The chainsaw, was made available prior to the release of this doll, with the release of Dark Jessica, as was the Bunny doll. The chainsaw does not look similiar to Grell's, as has been said by many fans, and Grell plays with Voodoo dolls, not plush bunnies. Yes, they gave him the red glasses, but that is one of a few things that were accurately portrayed. As far as the faceup is concerned, yes, it looks nice, yes, the eyebrows are quirked in "Grellesque" fashion, but it still does not make this doll look exactly like Grell, and could not no matter how hard Ringdoll tries. Why? Because the sculpt is not Grell, it's Spencer as an interpretation of Grell. This is not "milking a fad", and as has been said before, it was a cool way for Ringdoll to show the potential of their dolls.

There are so many other good points that have been brought up in this thead as well, but I can't address them all, so the one I will address, or rather reiterate, is this- other companies have made BB and Angel Sanctuary dolls before with likenesses that are much closer than this doll, but no one threw a fit about them, until this doll came out. So what changed? Why is it OK for one company to do it, but not another?

As for those who are getting worked up about Ringdoll making profit off of something that they took the time and created nonetheless, I will requote mhikaru, since she illustrated it perfectly:

But I do find it odd how many people seem to be disconnecting "fanwork" and "profit." There were a lot of earlier comments that Ringdoll aren't fans or making a fan-homage because they're making profit. I can't see why it's not a combination of both. The definition of fanwork does not include "non-profit."

I know that I'm a little late in putting in my two cents, since the doll has already been taken off of the website, but those who are outright accusing Ringdoll of ONLY doing this to profit off of it have gotten me enraged enough to say something. Being one of those Artist Alley folks myself, I KNOW where they're coming from- anyone here in this community that has ever made a doll to the likeness of a character (be it someone else's or their own) has to know where they're coming from. They want to create something to share with others that they can see and recognize, and connect with.

The greatest thing about this hobby is that every time a doll is made, it means that someONE, someWHERE had a vision (or an interpretation), and someone brought that vision/interpretation to life- some for themselves, some for others. And the fact of the matter is that if it weren't for those "others" that bring their visions to life for everyone else, well, this community, this hobby, would be nothing without those visionaries. Yes, Grell was not their vision, but he is certainly a character that many people love, and I'm sure that Ringdoll felt that they could connect to more of their supporters because both parties know and love him.

I thank Ringdoll for trying to bring one of their most beloved characters to life, and I thank them even more for trying to share him with everyone else. Unfortunately, thanks to a few sour people, and Ringdoll's utmost DESIRE to please all of their supporters, that chance for them to share that love with us, is now gone. I have no doubt in my mind that Ringdoll has a deep love for all of the dolls that they produce from their own imagination- if they didn't have a passion for their work, their dolls would not be as beautiful as they are, but I will not hold it against them for trying to share something that they love with the doll community, and I hope that no one else will either.

 

I hope they release at least the Judges outfit seperately, given that they must have already had quite a few produced for the fullsets. They put so much work into the design to just drop it in the bin and not sell any of it.

 

Sanctioned: Please, let's not pretend that a couple of tiny details being subtly different ("oh my god, the tie is striped in the wrong direction and the coat has a slightly different pattern, that means it's TOTALLY NOT GRELL") changes the entire situation. That's ridiculous. You can't say that doll isn't intended to be Grell Sutcliffe, as close a copy as they could get, with just a couple of embellishments.

I also find it ridiculous, that you expect that if you're upset over one total copy doll, omg you have to have a) been in doll fandom long enough, b) been vocal enough, c) been into the fandoms other companies have copied enough to recognize the characters, and d) felt the need to speak up against every single other copy doll ever or else you're a Big Bad Hypocrite. For one thing, I have no issue with dolls inspired by characters if they're done on a limited run, like Minimee and, yes, the IOS Sebastian doll (to me, this would say less "we want to make a profit off this popular thing" and more "we love this character and want to make a doll of them, but we can't just make one not for sale, we have to justify the expense of using the facilities, etc." also, it's much less of a copyright issue / leans more towards personal use etc. and "feels" less wrong if there's a very limited run). Secondly, I simply don't have the time or inclination to police every single freaking doll to come out on the market to see if it's omg a copy of something I'm not familiar with in any way. Finally, I wouldn't recognize a character from Angel Sanctuary if you beat me over the head with a Kaori Yuki artbook.

Personally, I'm pretty glad that Ringdoll took the doll off their site. I think it's really very awesome that they listened to what people were saying, heard their objections, and actually listened. A lot of companies wouldn't have done that.

 

Sad they felt FORCED to take it down because of certain people getting on their high horse about it..There must have been a lot of hard work behind him too.. Man, some people are lame and need to chillax once in a while, they may burst a blood vessel ...

I'm so sad for Ringdoll.. I wish they could get direct permission and rub it in peoples faces.

 

Luckily, it looks like all the accessories and clothing are still available. I'm sad because Spencer is a very underrated doll in appearance, and much more visually pleasing and beautiful in person, and this would have been great exposure for this particular Ringdoll sculpt.

 

That is hypocritical right there. We have no idea how many IOS is going to make and either way they will be making a profit because they're selling it. EVEN for limited runs, the companies still make money, I don't know where this no profit thing is coming from in this hobby as there's tons of money going around when buying dolls. I don't think the materials+facilities cost as much as the $1k+ that people pay for dolls. Maybe not AS much profit, but there's profit there. They wouldn't be producing the dolls without some profit. :\

If IOS wasn't using the Kuroshitsuji bandwagon, they would have based their new sculpt on something that's old or not as popular (aka please make Terra He dolls T^T). The fact that they made Osiris right when America finally has rights to the anime and Funi streams the anime legally online... there's a connection there. >_>

Again, how is it any different from the people selling cosplay items? How is it any different from the many companies selling EXACT COPIES of anime/manga/etc items to create a complete cosplay doll? They're still making money, don't kid yourself. There's no way they're just making stuff for a hobby and to sell anything that doesn't make profit would be... kinda dumb of the company.

And if you look at the sculpts, Spencer looks nothing like Grell whereas the Osiris sculpt looks just like Sebastien.

 

candy-coated: I don't feel it's hypocritical, but you're free to look at it that way. *shrug* It's also my understanding that Minimee and IOS aren't offering fullset dolls (with outfits, eyes, wigs, etc.), which also changes how I see it - a lot of my reaction to Ringdolls' "Grell" was seeing the pictures that were deliberately set to look like images from the actual anime, along with the outfit, wig, even the props being the same. If it were just the faceup or whatever, I probably would have been less upset by it, but seeing the whole thing just gave me a very visceral "OH MY GOD WHAT IS THIS" reaction, you know?

To be honest, I'm not saying that what Minimee or IOS do isn't wrong, either. I said I'm not personally as bothered by it (but then, who really has the energy or inclination to get intensely bothered by stuff from doll companies they've never even remotely considered buying from in the first place?). That doesn't mean it's necessarily right. And I'll admit readily that part of that may simply be that I don't find Minimee sculpts to be aesthetically pleasing, and usually don't think they look like the characters they're supposed to be in the first place, lol. That's my personal opinion. And I only saw the IOS Sebastian/"Osiris" once when my bff showed him to me while we were watching Kuroshitsuji for the first time, so, yeah.

As far as the profit angle: The way I see it is... most cosplay makers/sellers I know (I'm not talking about professionals or whatever, I don't buy from them or really look at/for them) only charge enough to make a profit based on how much work they put into it - in other words, they charge for materials+time, which is an important distinction... yes, it's a profit, but it's not for the sake of profit, it's reimbursing them for the time and effort expended to make the item. What I mean re: the limited run dolls is that yes, they are making a profit, but certainly not as much of one as if the dolls were standard and always available, and I see it more as justifying not only the costs of making/producing one, but the time spent by the creator who could be working on other projects for the company, and so on... you know, I'm American, so there's this mindset that if you're doing something on company time, you would probably have to justify why or how it would be useful to the company for you to be doing it. That might not actually be the case, but it's kind of how I look at it.

It's a lot less the profit thing and more the whole... making the whole doll like that, dressing it like that, with all those props and everything... Ringdoll could easily have made a doll inspired by Grell without making a doll that looked just like him down to the coat and the glasses and the picture setting, you know? IDK, it bugged me a lot. :\


ETA: and god, could I say "you know?" any more? lol.

 

Im sorry that i always think that Judges is a copy from Grell and l'll never change my thoughts.
Now judges is not continued anymore only his outfits..so if ringdoll really think Judges's style is designed by themselves,
they can always insist on this and sell him.Just like i insist that Judges is a copy,but someone insist that he's not..
But ringdoll give up, actually I think they themselves already realized they were not doing the right thing.
they did copy Grell at least on glass,faceup,hair,teeth..They knew that.

 

roserising I'm really sad that Judges is yet discontinued and was not even give to this doll the pale chance to go on sale.
I'm sadly have to remember that you pointed out your opinion several times negatively about this doll even in the news thread?Should i?
What i think is that is sad that some companies are fingered as unfair,or are accused to makes copied dolls,while,and that is obvious,evberyone,even the cosplayer, do that without been badmouthing.. while others simply not...that is wide unfair,imo.
What i mean is that your point iof view is well known,i think differently as you.

But again Judges is discontinued now,i'm not happy,but the next time i will see in my opinion a similiar dolls to another i will pointed out,just for intellectual honesty.

To me RingDoll give up only because so many complains about Judges,it's like waving white flag in surrender.
IMO even every single cosplayer that make profits using manga characters costume reproduction is violating the copyright.