Scalpers vs. Shopping Services vs. Flippers is there really a difference?

I live in Japan, and have attended Dolpas and AEs (and bought many concert/event tickets, you want to talk about scalping?) . . . honestly, scalpers didn't used to bother me very much, but there are only so many times that you find yourself unable to get what you want for a fee you can afford before you get annoyed ^^;. I know it's different in this hobby, but it is quite unusual, this notion that despite the fact that our dolls can appreciate in price, we're not allowed to make any profit from that. Other collectable hobbies seem less judgemental about that.

This is slightly sideways to the argument, but I remember being at one AE. The woman standing behind me was talking to her friends. She said that when she saw people ahead of her in line who bought LEs clearly on a whim/the spur of the moment at events ("kachatta!") it "kind of makes me want to kill them". We're not even talking scalping here - those impulse buyers could quite conceivably take those dolls home and enjoy them for years. I guess my point is that other buyers are also taking away your chance of buying an LE. Scalpers, flippers, and shopping services might up the price, but you can actually get the LE from them.

To get back on track somewhat, my opinion is that these distinctions are arbitrary. I don't resent other buyers getting LEs, whether they're scalpers/flippers/shopping services or just plain buying a doll for themselves. I just consider it the luck of the draw. Sometimes scalpers tick me off (watching them walk off with One-Offs at events irks me), but that's a personal irritation, not a moral stance.

As for markup or fees, the one thing that does catch me a bit is that regardless of the category, these people are often using linguistic skills. Translation/interpretation are quite difficult things to do, and shouldn't be thought of as worth little monetary reward.

 

If I want a doll I get it I dont care if its In just japan just korea etc. As for scalping people r going to sell it for what they want so its just up to you whether your willing to pay the price for it or not.

 

I haven't read a lot of this... but I was under the impression that flippers buy something of low price, fix it up and then sell it at the higher price. They have to have the whole "fix up" step in between to raise the value of the item being flipped.

Such as... flipping a house. They buy a run down building, do a bunch of maintenance work and bring everything to code and then then sell it as a profit to cover the expenses of the work done and because they raised the property value by making it a livable building. It's a business investment. I don't see anything wrong with buying something of low value, putting work into it to make it worth a greater value. There is work involved.

What you call flipping is actually "mark-up." Retail does that. They buy it at wholesale and mark it up to about twice what they paid for it and that is the "resale" value. That's why sellers can be all different prices. They all actually buy it from the company at the same price then raise the price to make a little profit. Yeah... the company may say $160 but that's not what the middle person is paying. They are buying it at $130 and selling it to you at $158 to make $18 profit. That's how wholesale/resale works. Then it's the whole balance of who can offer the lowest price without losing any money. It's consumerism and how American economics works. Walmart buys stuff for pennies and then sells it for dollars making profit.

But is that a flipper? No. That's not what people are talking about when they discuss flippers. You mean someone who marks up... or even an auctioner. Like the people who horde action figures so they can sell them 20 years down the line and pay for college. Again... nothing really wrong with that. That's how antiques and collections work.

 

I collect anime animation cels and I use intermediary shopping services to access YJ a lot and I have never minded their fees.
They are providing a service and you can choose between various shopping services providers till you find one that provides the best balance of fees and prompt service.
As a non-resident of Japan and non-conversant in written Japanese its given me access to the local auction market to pick up cels and more recently dollfies and items for dollfies on the secondary market - yes I view these services as very different to flippers and scalpers. The latter 2 buy the item for the resale - the intermediary shopping services provides you a means to buy them. They dont dictate the price.

 

There are a few points that keep coming up in this thread:

1. Shopping services take a doll away from someone else who wants it.
This is true. But this is true of EVERYONE who buys a limited doll, whether they buy it for themselves or for someone else. However, a scalper's entire business model depends on taking a doll away from someone else. A service's doesn't.

2. Sometimes scalpers sell for less than services.
This is also true, but only when scalpers misjudge the demand for a doll. For example, YoSD Ryo. Some scalpers went crazy and bought all they could, when any reasonable person could see that there wasn't going to be that much of a demand for him. Now those scalpers may be selling him for $450-$500, but that's not out of the goodness of their hearts, it's because that's the most they can get. Sometimes scalpers lose money on dolls. It's ridiculous to expect a shopping service to do the same.

3. Services get points and chances to win stuff.
Again, true. But so do scalpers. Frankly, I'm so used to getting points with everything I buy in Japan, that it never occurred to me that it would be something I should "disclose". I'm not even really sure how Volks' point system works. If I knew, I wouldn't mind telling anyone who wanted to know.

I don't like scalpers, but I do think it's odd that they're so vilified here, since it's generally the people on this board who benefit from them the most. I also think there's a huge difference between "casual" scalpers and "business" scalpers, i.e. the person who got lucky at Dolpa and decided to buy one of everything, and the guys who buy 50+ guidebooks and hire people to stand in line.

I also think there's some misconceptions about services going in on in this thread. Services, especially Dolpa services, are NOT risk-free. I probably lost about $300 by offering a service for Dolpa 20. Running a service involves a lot of time, a lot of stress, and a LOT of fees. (And even though I live in Kyoto, Sato is hardly a 15 minute train ride away. It takes at least an hour, and that's on a good day.)

 

I suppose I'm the only one here who can actually claim a 15-20 minute train ride to Sato, so I would like to add something to that statement. Placing an order for an FCS goes beyond just taking the trip; there's the actual conferencing between me & the client, receiving all their information & references & translating (which for me takes some time as I'm not fluent). Then there is the time involved in placing the order; if I'm lucky to get there at a time they're not busy, I can place the order right away. Otherwise I have to wait till a slot opens up. Then I have to make sure I correctly convey my client's wishes to whomever I'm placing the order with, which can & has taken hours. True, I receive the rare order without faceup, but they are few & far between. Then there is the receiving & inspecting of the package or packages, taking care of any problems that may arise, then making sure those packages are shipped in a timely manner.

Perhaps that's where the difference lies; in the communication between shopping service & client. It can create a bond in which the buyer feels connected, which results in the feelings of gratitude when a sale goes well. I have no real experience with buying off of Y!J or Ebay, but it seems somewhat faceless & impersonal, especially when dealing with someone who's purchased X-amount of dolls & just wants to make a profit.

As for special events at Sato, well, they can be just as harrowing & time-consuming as Dolpas, as rkold & others well know, so I won't go into that.

Plus (& this is just personal & I'm only speaking for myself) I don't do this for money. I have a job. I do this for fun & for a unique way to practice my Japanese, not to mention getting to experience Japan in a way others might not. I also get to see all kinds of beautiful dolls! Scoff if you want, but it's true.

Ah well, that's my 2 cents. Do I see myself as a scalper/flipper? No, I don't think so. Do I vilify them? No. They annoy me & I might make an offhanded remark, but I don't see them as evil. Perhaps just a bit greedy.

 

One more thing to note, there seems to be a conception that every cent of a shopping service's commission just goes straight into our back pockets, and that is not the case. Public transport in Japan is not in any way, shape or form cheap. For those of us not fortunate enough to live in Kyoto, train tickets and accommodation alone run into the hundreds of dollars. That is where a good deal of my commission goes. For those who would argue that shopping services are only in it for the money in the same vein as a scalper, well, I didn't make a red cent on my last lot of FCS orders - but I still went to Kyoto and put them in. Would a scalper feel the same obligation toward their buyers I wonder?