Scalping and YOU.

The reason companies produce LEs is to create a product higher in value than standard offerings. So there will be people who buy to re-sell at a higher price later (even if later is only a day or two.) It will happen, no matter what. As long as buyers exist, so do re-sellers. This is not really a moral or ethical issue, unless the company has a no-resale clause in the purchase agreement.
There isn't much that can be done to prevent scalping of a non time limited good. the only possibilities that exist are A. Creating a lottery system for LEs, and limit how frequently a given person can win lotteries per year. While this would prevent an individual from being able to buy all LEs produced, it would be a tracking burden on the companies' part, and they're not likely to do it. B. The company could require the mailing address to match the billing address. This would rapidly become an absolute nightmare to folks who are buying things as gifts to other people, or to college students who had their bills go their parents' home, but want the items to come to them at school. So, that's not a viable option.
Really, the only place where the term "scalping" is applied is to time limited events such as concerts or sporting events. The producers of these types of events do not want re-sale or markup of their product, and re-sale is typically prohibited in the terms of purchase. Those, however, are easy to track by requiring ID when you get to the event.
Doll re-sale would more likely be regarded simply as re-sale if the doll is unmodified, or flipping if the seller bought it to modify and re-sell.

 

An item is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

I disagree with the statement that someone buying a doll with the intent of resale is preventing someone else from owning it because if the person doesn't have the money to buy that doll in the first place, then they would miss out on the opportunity to buy it from the company anyway. A lot of limiteds are high in price because they're limited and are most likely rare; the same can be said for antiques.

For example: Do I think a Picasso painting should go for millions of dollars? No, but people have paid that much because he's so prestigious and because that painting is one of a kind; someone may also pay that much because they love the artist and must have one of his paintings. Would anyone say that's scalping? The personal answer depends on how the individual feels about the item. It's only worth what someone is willing to pay; doll, painting, or any other collectible item.

I also think a lot of people forget that in the end these dolls are just items, but it's how we view them as individuals which forms our different opinions about subjects such as these. And that's what's great about having a forum like this; we can all get our emotions and opinions out and get some other views and insights in the process.

 

I have to say that if the price is too high don't buy it. If you are willing to wait to see it later for less wait. I love these dolls too but feeding your family members has to come first. I think we want things and a priorty is a priorty. So when people pay the 4X cost they made that doll a priorty and then when the next one comes along that they can't afford (It likely evens things out) I have an idea in my head what I al willing to pay, beyond that I just look at all the pretty pictures You have to think of the extras as well, clothes, eye,s wigs. If someone is rich and can buy any doll they want so be it. It may seem unfair but how can you regulate that. It actually gives the smaller maker a chance to offer more choices. So you don't get a super dollfie, but you get 4 less expensive offerings from new artists. In a sense these costs force variety

 

Yes, I didn't really touch on it, but I agree.
I understand the difference between scalping, and the natural market growth of a limited and sought after item, and I don't think it's fair to those who are actively in to the hobby, and just trying to get what the dolls worth.
There really is no fair way to stop scalping.

 

Not only is this not enforceable, it's also not allowed on DOA (= price-policing).

It's the buyer's responsibility to agree only to prices that they deem fair. If you see a seller who's clearly been buying rare/LE/HTF dolls merely to flip them at ridiculous prices, it's your choice not to give them your business... but it's also your choice to pay that ridiculous price if you want the doll badly enough.

If you can't bargain for a lower price, & you don't like the current price, then you don't buy. I heard this in a Cop Shoot Cop song once: "Change what you cannot accept. Do not accept what you can't change."

 

If someone has recently released LE dolls for sale in the MP fairly often, does it make you less likely to deal with them in other parts of the hobby?

 

Not necessarily--some people don't intend to flip dolls, but end up buying and selling a lot as they try to figure out what they like, and LEs give people less time to carefully consider purchases before the submit button was hit. And, I guess it comes down to this--unless someone specifically tells you something about their motives or does something blatantly obvious, you don't know what's going through their head. If they are behaving like honest people in terms of transactions, then that's what's really important--not how often they buy and sell dolls.

 

For me it's not the final price the thing that make me say I deal with a scalper but the ammount of limiteds bought by him to be resaled in a bigger price later p.e. if there is a person who buys limiteds constantly to resale them after in bigger price then this is a scalper ... p.e. 1 Beryl for sale now doesn't make a person scalper for me -no matter the price- but 10 Beryl could be ...
If there is a limited dress at 50 pieces a scalper may try to buy them all or as much he/she can and resale them after in higher price , the "fraud" is not in the final price but in the fact this person first tries to dry up the market of this limited and then sells it ... this happens not only in dolls but also in limited editions of music , books , prints e.t.c some original sellers place a rule "one rer person" which is a nice one ... a person which wants 2 of the same still take one & ask a friend to place an order for him/her but a scalper can't dry up all 50 limiteds ... a scalpers worst thing is that dries up the market...
this cannot be done with monthly editions because they are not limited by number but just available for a period of time ... anyone has an advantage to get one inside this month ... in limiteds by number a scalper may buy all or most even from the 1st day ...
I can do this "I don't like the price? - then I don't buy it" simply & I just do it for my wallet , I can buy more dolls and new with those money... the ones who can fight this are the companies ... some ways : limiteds by time & not number , or one limited for each customer , or even best create a basic edition of the sculpt/ head /body parts & a limited edition painted differently or with special colour resin (the existance of a basic version rationalize the secondary market prices & the special colour resin is still enough to make the limited special and unique ...) this one not only stops pro-scalpers but rationalize in general the second hand market scalping or not ...

 

Is it still considered scalping if the doll is modified for the better?
As in, buying a blank head, doing a faceup, then selling it high?

 

no definately not ... mod or face up by an artist is his/her work , and can value it as much as his/her pride or money need says ... if price is high then is just an expensive artist ...
and this doll is now an ooak of this artist, it's not a limited it's a modded sculpt ... if a sculpt gets modded loses the limited value it may sell highly if someone likes it but not because it's limited ...
scalpers usually don't even play with limiteds , they try to get them in crazy quantities to dry out market , observe them for flaws , wait a little and then sell them ... they keep them mint in box to maintain all value they have as limiteds.

 

Price policing? What?
Well... it's a free market. If someone buys (example) a soom MD for the intent of reselling it at 2x, 3x, 4x the cost then whose to say its really wrong? I guess it's the well known version of the golden rule: those who have the gold make the rules. I know that's kind of a dim way to look at it, but limited stuff has more value by nature, especially when it's retired.
Some people pay $1000's of dollars for rare coins. Like the 1915 buffalo nickel is worth $300-$500 because it's not being made anymore. It's a nickel, some one got it for $.05....
I think it's kind of the same with limited dolls. They are collectors items. If they are kept in good condition the price will (in theory) always go UP anyways. So I buy Soom Cuprit for $1200 from Soom, sell it for $1600 and then in a year or two the new owner sells it for $2000.
It's not like people are getting totally robbed blind by "scalpers".
I wouldn't price police. If I see a limited doll that i MISSED and it's a zillion dollars more then when it was for sale then i'm not going to be mad, i'm just going to figure out layaway or bypass it.

 

NO to price policing. I am in my 40s and I have never sold a doll. We have many dolls, the cheapest cost US$2, the most expensive US$1400. The opposite of price inflation is price depression. Do you prefer to see the value of your beloved doll depreciate? Prices won't stay the same, they either go up or down. Price depression is depressing to doll owners even if you don't intend to sell. If you value your doll, you will want the value to go up even if you don't sell. I have seen one of my dolls, who has been with me for 30 years sell for less than 10% of buying cost. I cannot sell the doll for sentimental reasons, so the price fall won't affect me, but I sure am sad. I prefer to see price appreciation. If you cannot afford a doll because the price has appreciated, then, so be it. You've missed the boat. There are other gems in the market that are affordable.

I also believe that a truly successful doll earns her or his own value over time. Only popular dolls appreciate in value. People are willing to pay the inflated price. Not every doll can achieve this.

 

i think that scalping is unfair and wrong.

 

I agree with you. Scalping isn't a very nice practice at all. Every one gets that. But at the same time, scalpers can't function without the demand for the doll, and without people willing to pay it. And why are they willing to pay it? Because it's near the market price of the doll, or they just want it THAT BAD. If someone gets an LE with the intention of scalping it, yeah, I disagree. They took the potential slot for someone who wanted it legitamitely to get that doll at original price. But at the same time, most scalpers wait a while for those LEs to get up in price. By the time they sell it, you have more people who've gotten into the hobby who might want that LE. They now have a chance to get it.

And how is it any worse than someone getting the doll, because they want it, and then coming across something unexpected, or getting out of the hobby, or some other very legit reason, they sell it, and they mark it up? Those people wouldn't want to get less than market value for the doll, because then they'd be ripping themselves off.

So, yes, the intent of scalpers isn't good. But, at the same time, we're the ones that ultimately let it happen.

 

I personally feel the issue of limited dolls being sold with an extreme mark up of price right after arrival is a problem here. There is no way to tell an honest seller from a scapler without accusations. Yes in either case someone will likely pay an inflated price but that doesn't make it right nor something that should be allowed.

DoA is not the only place to sell dolls and if a seller decides they want to resell a doll right as it arrives (for whatever reason, again the reason doesn't matter) I think they should take their sale to eBay or a similar outlet.

The bad transaction thread is full of issues dealing with dishonesty and situations where buyers have been taken advantage of through the marketplace. This is unfortunate with any item and especially with limited dolls that cost so much. The dead-lock that comes while waiting to see if a person will even get their doll or communication from the seller is also time wasted a seller could be using their money to grasp another opportunity to get their limited.

I realize this is easier said than done to remove all issues and Im not speaking badly of DoA's protocal for problem transactions. At the same time I feel the non-personal nature of eBay results in fewer dragged out issues. There is no excuses allowed such as a person is ill, they've decided to keep the doll, etc. A buyer pays with a time frame and a seller ships within a time frame or action is taken.

 

I had something interesting happen to me...I bought my first doll 1 1/2 years ago. I didn't know very much about bjds. I found a picture here on DOA of a wonderful 58cm doll. She was $750 in the marketplace. She came with a face-up (from someone who I learned did wonderful face-ups), a wig (not the one in the picture I was shown), eyes (those stayed the same), no clothing...just a basic large doll. I was told she was an OOAK because she was sold to the seller by the person who did the face-up as an OOAK doll (with a great wig, beautiful dress, etc.) Actually, I was sold a regular doll with a face-up for $150 more than she was worth....because the seller kept the special wig and clothing that made her a OOAK! Boy was I stupid. I paid for an OOAK doll and got a beautiful naked one that anyone could buy.

I kept her for a while and sold her...but due to the economy...for $600, and with two wigs and a few outfits. I feel that I was totally scalped by the person who sold to me....anyone agree or disagree? Just because you buy an OOAK or Limited doll...you shouldn't sell it without what makes it "special" for the same price you paid. Or do you feel I deserved to pay more because I was so ignorant? "An informed consume" and all that!

 

I don't feel that you "deserved" to pay more. That's a pretty harsh sentiment! I think it's unfortunate that you got ripped off, but it's not really "scalping", per se.

In a "collectibles" hobby, scalping is usually defined as purchasing something limited or difficult-to-obtain for the purposes of reselling at a profit. Scalpers essentially try to "dry up" the market for a limited item to increase its resale value. Since the doll was not OOAK or limited, I think this is just a case of someone selling a standard item higher than the market value and misrepresenting a sale.

 

I'm one of the few that doesn't care. I think everyone has a right to buy and re-sell as they choose. I don't have the cash to shell out $3,000 for a LE but I don't get angry about it. I know people that used to buy old star wars figures with the intention to resell (and they made a decent profit) really all I ever thought was good for them. I see it as the same thing.

There are tons of dolls I can not afford weather they are company priced or resale value prince. I guess I just don't mind as long as no one is lying about the condition the doll is in and provides pictures.

 

If no one bought the scalped dolls it wouldn't work

 

Do I hate scalping?
Yes, I hate anyone who has something I want and marks up the price 100% for it, because they have it and I don't. It's business. Business does not care about morals, it is all about the greed, plain and simple. Even doll companies themselves mark-up their prices up 25% to 100% to foreign markets because they know we will pay it and not complain. And if complaints are made, they are quickly squelched by others saying it's "cost of business". So look at it as "cost of business". You want the doll, they have the doll, the 100% mark-up is "cost of business".

Should a community discourage scalping or have rules against it?
I say yes. This is a community, it has rules. When people get unhappy, rudeness occurs. Therefore putting a limit on prices of dolls in this particular place should be encouraged. What a person does outside this forum however is their business. Den of Angels themselves is now an LLC and thus, a business, they have a right to set their own business policy.