Scalping and YOU.

I don't like the markup of ticket brokers and avoid them when I can, but like Anrui Ukimi said, sometimes they come in handy--for that ticket you can't live without.

I suppose scalpers are like that, too--not a very nice thing, but if someone really wants the doll and is willing to pay that price, I'm sure they're happy with it. It's not illegal. And no one is forcing us to buy from them. So I guess if people really dislike the idea, they can do as others have said here, and not mark-up prices and not buy from scalpers. But that has to be an individual decision. (Personally, I don't like paying a big markup for my dolls, but I can't blame those who really want a certain doll and will pay extra for one!)

As for what is scalping and what isn't... that's a tough one. What if someone has a doll that can be sold for a lot on the open market and they really, really need the money???

I have a number of limiteds who are worth more on the open market than the retail price I paid for them... I have never sold any of them! BUT... what if something happened and I really needed money badly? I'd definitely think of selling them because they are worth so much! And if I HAD to sell any of my dolls (which I hope will never happen!!!), I'd certainly want the most I could get for them.

Of course, I know there are people who seem to make a regular business out of grabbing limiteds and selling them for high prices. That's a different thing, but really, it takes two, the seller and the buyer. It's up to them to do it or not.

I think it's just one of those facts of life that are hard to avoid...

 

Why does the reason for selling matter? If I'm the buyer in either situation, I pay way over original price and the the seller profits. For all I know s/he is lying about bonding issues/"I need the money for ____".

I want an L-Bi but current market rates put him at about $200-250 over the original kit price with shopping service fees included. Those sellers could choose to sell for less; no one is forcing them to hike the prices. They do it because they can, and so do scalpers.

I don't think one can be allowed without allowing the other. We choose which purchases to make.

 

IMHO, there is no law to say you can't buy a doll and re-sell it no matter what your intentions are - whether to buy and sell for profit or because you don't gel with the doll when you recieve it.
I don't see any reason to sell a doll that i own for a lower price just to make people like me, i would want the most money i could get for it. If you were selling a car you would'nt sell it at a lower price would you, or a house? Why should BJD's be any different.
Just because we BJD fans have an emotional involvement with them does'nt mean we have to sell our LE dolls at their original price just to appease the rest of the BJD community.
If i wanted a LE badly enough and had the cash then i would pay whatever price was being asked - what's the problem with that?
Morals don't come into it, this is sound financial selling practise - profit rules.

BTW - i don't intend to sell any of my LE dolls

 

To be honest I don't feel like it's very fair at all, but the world is largely an unfair place so this type of thing is expected in such a rare and exensive hobby.
I my self wouldn't want to buy a limited because I think to style my own dolls rather than have a look planned out, but it's unfair to collectors that dow ant them.

 

I had this happen to me. I sold my Shirou v1 for 900$ (I think he was 880$ originally but I added shipping ^^) & saw that within the week this person had him up for 2500$ on eBay & it sold within minutes of being placed (I have an active eBay search for Volks dolls ^^)

 

Hmmm I confess I have oddly contradictory feelings towards scalping and after market pricing in general. I admit, I find interesting doll/BJD collectors' almost obsession with the issue of scalping. I also collect various anime goods and perhaps I am just not in the know enough, but I've never seen fans make quite such a huge concern over the whole issue of scalping.

I do think it is a bit tacky when someone asks 50% mark-up on items they got through say VolksUSA. Particularly, when it is only a week or so after they received the items. Having gotten items through both Japanese Dolpas and VolksUSA, the latter is so much less painful and other than the time you pick to obsess, so much less time consuming.

On the other hand, something I think we tend to forget is most scalpers of say Dolpa LEs are fellow collectors. A non-doll person (unless going with a doll friend) is not going to just go to Tokyo Big Sight, spend hours waiting in line on the hope of getting a doll, put out the money for their speculation (which in the case of Volks LEs is usually $500+), and then scalp said doll. The doll hobby is not the equivalent of buying concert tickets to scalp. There are not as many doll fans as for most rock acts and it is somewhat arrogant of us to consider our hobby anywhere close to as mainstream and easily accessible.

Someone gave the example of the person charging the equivalent of $100 an hour for the 10 hours they spent waiting in line to get a Dolpa LE. (My husband spend between 5 and 6 to get my Shin and Lin and Archangel Raphael's Reisner.) It's important to note, that the scalper is not charging just for their time, they're charging for the fact they are speculating and laying out $900+ of their money on this speculation which could flop. Yes, a Madoka or a Kurumi is definitely likely to sell, but you could also end up with an Emma (who can still be bought new at Tenshi no Sato). One has to both have some knowledge of the doll market and be willing to take a risk.

I'm not saying that scalping dolls is something I personally want to do, I generally try to ask what I paid for dolls, but I guess I also don't see it as the great evil so many people see it as either. ^^; It can be excessively tacky and make me roll eyes, but evil?

 

I personally think that scalping is wrong. The ways I have avoided that is by not buying high priced "second hand" dolls. I'm sorry but like the certain "B" dolls, some people acquired those limited just to rake in the profits. It's like those winning a One-off and then turning around the very next day and sell it for a higher price. I'm sorry if you didn't want the doll, let someone else have a go at it, stop being greedy.

But I guess scalping will always happen because we let them scalp us. There will always be someone somewhere desperate enough to buy a doll at their prices just because it's an LE.

The only way you can stop scalping is to NOT fall into thir ploy. Yes you always wanted this doll it's your Holy Grail doll. Fine but doll makers always make new dolls. I'd rather wait and see than jump at a doll just because he's LE. If I want a LE doll I take my chances with the maker selling them.. if not well them's the breaks. It's not fair but life never really is. I'm not going to pay scalping prices. Which is why I have written off ever getting a "B" doll because well if I can't get lucky... no way am I paying the price of the doll sold by a scalper by 2 or 3 times what it cost.

If everyone thought like I did, the scalpers wouldn't be so prolific. But human nature being what it is, these guys will always find a way to make a profit, because there's always someone somewhere ready to pay those prices.

 

It's a necessary "evil", IMO.

There are LE dolls that I saw that I would have loved to have, but the mark-ups were insane.. And I decided not to buy from those sellers on principal. Paying/charging twice the cost of the doll a few days after (Or before, even) the release is a bit more than cheeky.

Usually, I put items a little less than their going rates and see where it goes from there. But, that's just me, I do not begrudge anyone aiming higher, but I do believe there is an "acceptable" mark-up, and then there's just taking blatent taking advantage. But.. Then again, there's always someone out there willing to pay the price for their dream doll. If they're happy with the doll in the end, that's all that matters.

Other than that, in other communities I visit, sometimes scalpers are the only way someone can actually get access to the item. It's not "nice", but it's how RL works, and not everything in RL is "nice". I feel it's always better to be realistic.

 

Prices of most cars depreciate as time goes by, not go up. Prices in houses go up, but I don't think I've ever heard of someone buying a house one day and selling it the next at a 100% profit. Plus, the prices of houses aren't the same as the prices of BJDs. This does not make a particularly good example.

You know, I'm very fond of the idea that a business is a business and that profit is important. But the statement above is just...iffy sounding. We have laws upon laws that involve keeping people, animals and nature from being exploited, to ensure that in the course of making money, we don't forget about our morals. So saying 'morals don't come into it, profit rules', just because it's a business? Doesn't settle well with me. Business ethics and morals shouldn't be tossed to the wind just because we want to make money.

And this is directed to the general public.

Scalping is not illegal. Would I say it's immoral? I don't know, but it sure annoys me. Most importantly, I don't see scalping as a business practice. I see scalping as something very close to cheating. This people did not sit down and design, sculpt, make the mold, mix the resin, etc. They don't hire workers or own a shop or anything. Basically, they prowl, looking for a sale from the companies, buying and then selling nearly immediately at the highest price possible.

I hear people saying we're protesting just because we have emotional attachment to the dolls. Erm. No. I'm protesting because it just screams a heck lot of 'wrong' to me. I was perfectly capable of disliking concert tickets scalping even though I wasn't interested in the concerts. It's the same situation here. It doesn't require emotional attachment to know what's dodgy practices.

 

Actually, contemplate that many people are coming at the idea of collecting from a very different angle than you are. Entertain the notion that people may not be selling dolls to "appease the rest of the BJD community" or to "make people like" us. I'd be greatly surprised if there aren't quite a few people here who couldn't care less whether people we don't know like us or not.

There are those for whom a straight consumer attitude is not palatable. (As a slight example of this, just because the post industrial West is consuming something like 70% of the world's raw resources, does that mean we're ENTITLED to it? Most emphatically not!) And for some of us, it is a moral issue. Lest I get jumped for this, I'm speaking in the abstract about the larger issue, not the specific instances. There are as many opinions (if not more) than people who have them.

Somebody above mentioned being in need, and I agree whole-heartedly with that point. By all means, if you are in need and you have a desirable commodity that could help defray your costs, then it is entirely legitimate to sell what assets you have -- and lets face it, bjds are assets, and slightly more lucrative ones -- as would be that original GI Joe or Barbie, some older models of car, some rare baseball cards -- "used" doesn't necessarily mean "depreciated". It's a question of priorities, and your loved ones (and things like a secure roof over your head and three square meals a day) should come before your hobbies, however much desired they are.

Julie

 

I don't like scalping as a practice, but I know that it'll never end either. And it's not only found with BJDs, all hobbies have the same problem. It's just a matter of accepting that it exists, will never end, and you just have to move on...u_u

Though, I don't have a problem with auctioning. Setting the price of a LE doll at $1300, when it's retail value is say $850, I say is wrong. However, if you were to set a doll to auction and start the minimum bid at $850, but the highest bid ends up being $1300 (or more), then I have no issues with that. Reason being is that you have a doll and were willing to sell it for what you paid, rather than obviously trying to make a profit. Plus, the consumers drove the price that high, the seller didn't.

 

I'm torn on the idea of scalpers. There are very few that I generally dislike, and these are only the users that I see repeatedly selling nothing but LE dolls for an insane markup. However, scalpers are a necessary evil. Sometimes, they are the only way to get the doll you love. I had to get my fullset Musedoll Erato from a scalper, but I loved the doll and she was worth the pricetag to me.

I think it's also a little difficult to decide someone's intent. When the Mecha Angel was first released, for instance, and people started getting them in, a couple of people sold them immediately, and a lot of people outbirked and called them scalpers. I actually had a lot of trouble deciding not to sell mine right off the bat; he's a lot of doll to love, difficult to handle, and sort of awkward. I don't think buying a doll and then turning around and selling it makes you a scalper, but buying a doll and then turning around and selling it with a $700 markup DOES.

I'm willing to let scalpers be. I have most of the dolls I want, so I can just ignore them. Some people are willing to pay their asking price, and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

 

If you don't like it, then don't buy it.
And don't get annoyed because other people buy it. It's their money and their choice.
When something is truly overpriced for the market demand, it doesn't sell. We've all seen examples of this.

 

Personally, I don't care. Dolls are not necessary things, so it's not important if people offer such things for more than what they are worth... I just don't buy anything I find outrageously priced, and that's the end of it.

 

Scalping is something that's tolerated in this community to an extent that I find a little bit obnoxious. While I do agree with Rkold - Dolpa gotten dolls have, to a certain extent, a right to be marked up a bit for their time, I don't think that the markup should be quite as extensive as what Kurumi's markup was at the time of her release, or even now.

Further, I really loathe Volksusa scalpers, particularly of Yos. Because someone got up at the exact moment to luckily catch the little Yo event they had back in Thanksgiving, that person was able to buy a Yo for market value (375~ish) and resell it for twice that much not a week later when they recieved it. Give me a break. Absolutely no time, energy or thought went into that purchase.

I feel that auctions are the fairest way to sell a doll, as long as the doll starts at market value, because that allows the buyers to determine how much they are willing to spend, especially on super rare dolls like Bermanns.

 

This is the way capitalism works. It's called 'supply and demand', and it's an important economic principle that's evident in nearly every aspect of buying and selling...

In other words, scalping is not going to go away.

I personally believe that it is wrong to buy a limited with the specific intention for selling it at a profit to make money, in this hobby especially because it takes the chance to buy a LE away from someone who really wants it for their collection.

That said, there is nothing wrong with making a mistake, and impulse-buying a LE that you can't use/don't want/can't afford, and then re-selling it once you have it in hand. It's wrong to expect a 'waiting period' for someone to re-sell a LE, and wrong to assume that just because someone is selling a LE shortly after it was purchased that they are going into it to scalp the doll.

I believe that in the above case, an auction is the right and moral way to decide 1) who gets a doll that is likely in high demand and 2) how much the seller gets in return for said doll.

What people don't seem to see is that those willing to pay the higher market price for a LE must really want the doll. Is it unfair that some of us can't afford that? Yes, it is, but it is equally unfair to snatch the chance to buy these dolls away from the people who have worked hard to earn enough money to pay for them.

Further, you would have to be either insane or a saint to give up the opportunity to make money on a doll sale.

So in short: scalping is bad. Selling a LE at a higher price than the purchase price is just good economic principle *shrug*

 

I still don't get why everyone seems to think an auction is the only right/moral/fair/etc way for a seller to get market value (or substantially more than they paid) for a rare LE.

With less popular dolls I can understand . . . but let's face it, if you put, say, Kurumi up on ebay you KNOW she is going to fetch a high price. If a seller wants to sell a rare doll for lower than the market value then an auction isn't the way to do it! So why is it considered better to put a rare doll up for auction -- where the doll will fetch anywhere from the low end to the high end of market value -- instead of simply flat-out selling for the low or mid range of market value? I'm not trying to be difficult here, I just really don't get it. Having bought LE's on the secondary market, I MUCH prefer to buy a rare LE in a private sale for a bit less than I would have to pay on ebay/Y!J. Surely I'm not the only buyer who isn't fond of bidding wars!

 

I wasn't aware that there was a morality code in the BJD world. Scalping is annoying because it inflates prices and makes it acceptable to do so in an already expensive hobby, but I don't think that there's a morality attached to it.

Obviously no one likes the idea that someone is buying the doll they want just to resell it for more money. I got a Reisner at Dolpa, but if I hadn't been lucky enough to get him there the chances of me getting him at all were probably slim because I didn't want to pay VolksUSA prices or scalper prices.

However, I'm not morally obligated to, should I have chosen, to not resell him at inflated prices. There's no moral obligation to a doll or to who decides to buy it, or even to Volks.

Scalping is tacky, but in general not morally incorrect.

 

Thank you, that is exactly my thoughts on it. Tacky? Possibly. Annoying? When I have to pay more than retail for something I want, but I am capable of making decisions on my own as to whether the higher price is worth it to me or not. Morally wrong and unethical? As long as it doesn't involve theft, assault, and/or murder, I don't see how choosing to sell something you paid for at the price you consider it worth to be unethical in any way.

I don't think there should be ANY price policing. Who gets to make the decisions? No one has the power or right to tell someone what to do with property like dolls. I know there are laws in affect for things like pets, homes and land, and cars, but collectibles and personal effects? There is a big difference between food speculation and scalping limited dolls.

This is the only hobby where I have run across people so adamant in how evil scalping is. It's a fact of life in a free market with desirable collectibles. I collect doujinshi, and as a way to help fund my own collection and trips, I often buy books on the side for popular series or circles I know sell well back in the US for the express purpose of selling them for a profit. *shrugs* I don't see how that is immoral in any way.

If you don't like it, fine. No one is forcing you to do business with someone who you feel is a scalper, but the moral crusade is extremely off-putting to me. Especially when it's not applied equally to every member who has scalped on the board.