Scalping and YOU.

I come to BJDs from the Barbie and Fashion doll crowd....and a similar discussion pops up occasionally.

I've bought through the years not intending to sell but as time has passed...some stuff must go. I would love it if I got even half of the dollars I paid for some of my doll stuff but usually buyers want it very cheap. So if I luck out and have a highly desired item once in a while....great.

In the fashion doll world....I can luck out and someone will pick up an event only limited edition doll and sell at the event cost. BUT....most of the time I have had to be willing to pay a little extra. The basic law of supply and demand. If I don't go....I'm not paying for the hotel, transportation and convention fees. So for me personally....I am willing to pay a bit of a markup for the costs to the other person. It ends up costing me less than going and getting it myself.

So if I have to pay a bit extra to get my special BJD....I usually do.

Now take this example. I got one of my 'really want' dolls. I don't think the person I bought from was a scalper....just very lucky to get the doll....and they were selling because they didn't feel he fit in their group. What is the doll worth? The doll is a Tan Adel by Latidoll and he was free by lottery to the seller. I paid close to the price of an Aida for the Adel. To me Adel is well worth it. But going by some posts in this thread....would that seller be called a scalper since they paid nothing?

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I know this barely applies, but; I promise it does eventually.

This one time; I went to the H&M opening on fifth ave with a friend of mine who was really into it. She joked she needed personal protection, and I was curious what all the fuss over these two dudes Viktor and Rolf was all about. She quickly informs me as we hop in line that they are coture designers; and that I should prepare myself for a bloodbath. I laughed. I should not have laughed. Soon we were third in a line of thousands and I began to feel a bit... petrified.

Old ladies, young korean girls... everyone was simply throwing as much as they could into bags. pushing eachother over, grabbing entire racks off of the hangers and running off to purchase them. anything; everything.

We made off with the items we wanted, but I had to punch several girls who tried to literally tear the items from our hands.

I soon later found that nearl all the clothes that day sold out that morning; and nearly all the clothes were on ebay that afternoon at an obsceen markup.

The moral of the story is:

Scalping is apparently well worth the trouble, or else those girls wouldnt have been in that frightening, dangerous mob, clawing at my face for items they had no intention of wearing. Scalping is also apparently unavoidable now that ebay exists. It's too damn easy. Courtesy cannot be expected or even philisophically ideaologically conceptualized in our free-market capitalist system as it stands.

People with money can pay for the convenience not to have to wait in line. That is always how it has been, and so it shall be. It is unfortunate; but any notion to the contrary would be unfair to the folks who went out there and got that commodity. If you don't like the markup, I say camp it out and bring your iron knuckles with the rest of us. It can be fun, I must say.

 

I'm loving the stories! I've waited up all night to order a doll before, ready to pounce as soon as it became available. Nothing happened. The sale was put off another week. I really wanted that doll at the time, but because of the let down I decided to order a not so hard to get doll instead and ended up loving her a lot. It's not just scalpers we're competing with, but other enthusiasts, and even non-LE dolls can be hard to procure at times. I've never gone after an LE doll. I guess none have ever appealed to me, and I usually don't want to spend the extra cash on the outfits or accessories.

When scalping occurs in other intrest groups, like video games for example, most people wonder why someone would pay "that much", or, in the case of the PS3's launch week, stand in line for days, possibly getting robbed or shot, for a silly system. My husband stayed up all night, outside, in November, for the Nintendo Wii. I almost stayed out there with him to get another Wii to sell online to some sap. As cruel as that sounds, I wouldn't mind for a second charging 50% more after staying out 12 hours at night and almost getting frostbite, if that's what people will pay. Unlike the PS3, which is not selling anymore, the Wii is still a very hard to find item in stores around here, and the demand is high. People who go through such terrible trials deserve a little extra for their trouble.

As for dolls won in lotteries, that's the luck of the draw. That would be horribly frustrating if I went to a Volks party and saw around me nothing but drooling scalpers, while I'm hoping for the chance to take that one special doll to a good home, mine. Volks, for instance, could try to prohibit scalpers from their parties, but I can't think of how. They are probably just as good a customer as any other buyer. If they end up winning that doll just to turn a profit, you may think they are some evil force, but if you won a one-of-a-kind doll that didn't tickle your fancy, just think of what you'd do! Are your motives more pure than the scalpers? God bless you if you didn't have it in you to auction it off to the highest bidder.

I can't put an exact percentage on what determines scalping. Anything terribly above and beyond the fair cost of the doll plus any buyer costs is what I would call scalping, but what seems fair to me might seem outrageous to another. Perhaps things would be easier if there was a set percentage that's considered acceptable markup, but that would only be enforceable if people refused to buy anything marked up more. Again, this is impossible because there are those people who must have that doll and will buy it at any cost. As long as someone will pay the price, I say it's fair game.

 

This may sound horribly n00bish, but...

Scalpingwhatnow? O______O

 

Basically, it's buying a doll (or anything else) simply to turn around and sell it at a profit.

 

Let me see if I understand.

It seems to me that the upset over scalping is based on the concept that someone is being taken advantage of by the "scalper"- either the company, the buyer, or the collector who can't get the doll or afford the scalper's price. Is that right? The company, because theoretically they are losing the extra money that some customers are willing to pay. The buyer, because they are paying an exorbitant mark-up for a product originally priced much lower. The other collector, because owing to location or finances or lack of opportunity cannot have the doll.

I can almost guarantee that the manufacturers have no real complaint about scalping - they may find it annoying as part of the community, but it doesn't actually cut into their profits and in fact may provide extra publicity when people start to notice the demand for a certain doll, as well as some free market research for new editions. This doesn't seem unethical to me; opinions may vary. I expect businesses to try to make a profit and grow.

Buyers certainly have no complaint; they get what they want for a price they are willing to pay. As someone already pointed out, they are paying for convenience. Leisure and convenience are the real privileges of wealth!

As for other collectors... well, that's sticky. If you are a person who regards a certain group of collectors as a family of sorts, if you have an emotional investment with this group and expectations of behavior based on the generosity of a shared passion - then yes, "scalping" will be offensive to you. And that's perfectly understandable. I think the thing to realize, though, is that not everyone feels the same connection or obligation. Some people are business people first, collectors second. In the end, if no one were willing to pay, there would be no "scalping..." but that's not going to happen. If no one were willing to buy and hide masterworks of art, there would be no thefts from museums or desecration of cultural sites. (I'm NOT comparing the seriousness of these actions to selling dolls; it's just a supply-and-demand example).

This is pretty long and opinionated for a first (second) post! But it's something I've dealt with in several jobs in a long and checkered employment history... and just my two cents' worth.

 

I wish there was a way to stop or slow it down, but I dont think its possible.

On a personal level, as others have mentioned, I'd rather not buy from someone who bought to scalp. But if I want an item badly enough, and the price is within my range then I'll buy it. But more often, I'll wait until the hype dies down and get it for more than original, but less than scalp.

Part of my issue is that I feel this is unfair to the manufacturers/artists etc. They create an item, and put what they feel is a valid market price on it that includes some kind of profit for them. If they wanted to discourage scalpers, their only choice would be to mark the doll way over price and give no markup room for the scalpers. But this would be a problem for the few lucky people who can actually buy on original sale that cant afford the marked up price.

One way to discourage (but not eliminate) scalping is to do phased releases on limited. For example, if there is a limit of 100, put it out over 4 weeks, with 25 each week. Scalpers in the early weeks would have to hold onto the items for longer since people would try to buy directly at the lower price. Not all scalpers have the cash flow to keep the item this long, they need to flip it before their CC bill comes in.

This doesnt solve the problem and is similar to the way Dolphas work with initial sales, volks usa lottery then AE event. The auctions started right away, but many people held off until they tried the other routes.

I have a few limiteds. Some I was lucky enough to get directly, some not. But for the ones I bought from others, I didnt get them right after. I got them, in some cases almost a year later for prices that were more reasonable to me. But if I want it bad enough, and can afford the price, I would buy it. The seller might be a scalper, or might not be. I try not to support scalpers, but you cant always tell (someone gets a doll they dont bond with etc).

 

Personally, I think it is tacky, and I wouldn't be foolish enough to buy something marked up ridiculously no matter how much I loved it. I'm cheap like that. I also have never done it myself. Everything I have sold in this hobby has been for a not scalping price. I think it's just the moral thing to do. Having said that, if you were in dire straits and could sell something for an outrageous price, that would be different I think?

 

I guess you can look at buying a limited doll like this- you put in the time waiting for it, standing in line or waiting at the computer and it costs you less. Or you can put in the time working for it and spending more. I guess this is what they mean by time is money.
For me scalpers are just another way to buy, and in some cases the only way I can get something. I dont live in Japan or travel there- so the only way I could get a doll like that is by buying it from a scalper, and by having the price high, it knocks out more of the competition so it increase the chance (if I have the money) of getting the doll.
If something is truly limited and I want it badly enough, I'd rather a doll go to a scalper, so I have a chance at it, then have it go to someone who will love it and keep it forever. I know that is selfish, but if I wanted something badly enough, hmm. You can see what I am saying.
But there are so many beautiful dolls, I usually dont look at dolls that are so limited, so I havent been in this bind.

 

I would be offended at scalping if the item being scalped is a necessity.

But dolls? Nah. I can certainly live without dolls. So if someone can afford a doll that a "scalper" was selling...more power to them. Seller is happy that they made a profit, and the buyer is happy that they got the doll they want.

So what's "immoral" about that?

Free market and all that, y'know.

So who exactly is being wronged there? Someone who can't afford the doll? Or someone who missed out on some doll lottery/order deadline/etc?

You win some, you lose some. That is the nature of "Limited Edition".

 

Hmm.. I think we can all agree that yes it does happen here on the boards, you can see that with how high Reisner has gone. I consider that scalping, however, sometimes people really just cannot bond with a certain doll and to re-sell it I think is perfectly fine. I myself have sold LE dolls before, though, I was actually rather good with it. I didnt want anything higher, all I wanted was what I paid and shipping cost. *crossesfingers Karma! XP

When it comes down to me getting scalped, yep, sure has happened. But it was my choice, I wasnt forced or anything to buy him/her. If I want it enough, then Id be willing to pay the high price as I think if I didnt Id be rather upset at myself.

Scalping exists here on the Boards, its not right, but its inevitably going to happen because people will buy the dolls at that price.

 

I think it's only natural. Everywhere and in any field [especially when valuable and rare/ limited items are involved] there'll always be scalping, and there'll [almost] always be someone who'll agree to pay the overprice for those items. If someone knows he has something he can get lots of money for- why will they settle for less than what they know they can get? It's all an offer- and- demand issue. Also, because those items are limited and hard-to-get, there will probably be loads of people wanting them-- way more than the number of available items. Demanding a higher price is also a way to "screen" all those people and remain with a few who have the money to afford the item. Otherwise, it can get kinda chaotic, I guess. It isn't very fair, but let's admit it- collecting BJDs is not a hobby in which everyone has an equal chance of owning the same dolls. A pretty large part of it i the prestige that comes with owning something valuable and rare which other's don't/ can't have.

Cruel, but it's a man-eat-man's world. That's how it is in almost ANY field, not only BJDs- the ones with the resources win.

I myself wouldn't do it [scalping], though. I'm just not like that. I'll try getting what I paid for the doll + shipping, and be happy with that. Maybe because dolls have such a sentimental value for me, that it will be more important for me that it goes to a good home than gaining money over it.
Sort of like when I preferred to give away my purebred [and expensive :X] puppies away for free when I couldn't keep them, to an owner whom I knew will take excellent care of them regardless of the face he couldn't afford to buy them at 1000$ each.

 

Yes.

Exactly.

Exactly. And by the same people, over and over again. Amazing how that keeps happening.

Absolutely. While some may choose to do this, I hope they sit on their overpriced doll until they've paid twice over for it on their cc bill.

And I keep a list of these people and I don't buy from them. I also inform other people not to buy from them. I wish we were allowed to point out who these repeat people are because really, once people do catch on, they won't be happy.

That's the part that seems to be lost on many people. This is a community, not a selling ground. And community doesn't simply mean captive band of suckers with $$ waiting for you to liberate said $$ at all opportunity. The social contract/expectation is that we are all friends here and will treat each other accordingly. Ebay is the selling ground, that's why its suggested you take it there if you are motivated to gain the most $$$ for your doll. That's what ebay is for and no quarter is expected there.

No one is grudging anyone a profit, but it is all in how you go about selling that will brand you as a scalper or simply a good dealer.

 

Yesterday I saw a small video from a Dolpa that took place in the Tokyo big site and now I read the story that Fleet wrote. I must say that I feel truly dissapointed from what I saw in that video and what I read here today. People punching other people for items? Running around like crazy just to get hold of a doll! I was in fact so dissaponted and depressed from the video I saw, that I dont know anymore if I ever want to attend a Dolpa. I am not up for this kind of behavior. If this what it takes to be a scalper, I think the extra money that we pay is well worth it. I am sorry if this is "too bad" to say, but I thing that what was going on in Fleet's story and in that video, is even worse.

 

Yes, absolutely. They are'nt auctioning off organs or life saving drugs (but i bet it goes on somewhere God forbid) so it's just market forces or whatever the term is.
I can't see what all the fuss is about, we live in a free trade environment and this is just a repercussion of this.......don't forget, people BUY from scalpers - it's called freedom of choice. There are no morals attached to business practice (generally) so i am surprised that just because we are discussing BJD's we expect all sellers to suddenly become Mother Theresa or something equally saintly.

 

Tee hee. Karma and compound interest... a double whammy.

I know there's a community feedback forum for fashion doll collectors; is there one for BJDs where newcomers could go to find sellers' histories?

 

I just bought a SwD Kaede. I bought her for very little over the original price from Volks, despite her being a limited. I was so pleased with the honesty of the seller. She could have asked for much more, and someone would have paid it. I won't pay scalping prices prices, so I wouldn't have been able to buy her. But thanks to her I could! Just thought I'd add something positive to this thread ^^

 

I see my BJD as an enjoyable hobby. It's really hard to find some dolls and it's disheartening to see scalper prices. When getting dolls I try to only patronize fair priced sellers and auctions.

If I want to make money I do investing or put in the bank at a high interest rate.

I'm in this for the hobby and for the love of the dolls not the price tag on them

 

For some creators the below is not necessarily true. If you read the thread on the Unoa preorders, you'll see that talks are started to get help manufacturing more so that the creator can keep up to the demand. He's upset that these dolls he's created at a reasonable price are being resold for 2-3 times that. He created them to be enjoyed, and is concerned that people are caring less about the dolls and more about the money.
I know thats not true for everyone. I paid a fair bit for my unoa boy and if I had to part with him (which I dont right now), I hope I could break even.

 

ok from what i know this is the evil of scalping. Say there is a limited run of 100 dolls. The scalpers buy 75 of them so only 25 can be bought by people that want them. Now say 50 people want them at the time they are set on sale. 25 people will be lucky to get them while the other 25 will be left to pay a huge amount of money because of the price set by the scalping. The there is the last 50 waiting around in some ones basement waiting for someone to bid on them at a crazy price.

As a little extra to think about what if one of those 25 that didn't get the doll is a young girl that has saved her money, waited all this time and couldn't get the doll she has had her heart set on because of some people trying to turn a buck. That alone should make you hate scalping.

The only fair way I see to selling things on ebay is to sell what you have for what price you paid for it. Then let everyone else that wants the item fight it out.