Second hand dolls: Shouldn't they be cheaper than new ones?

oh this topic pisses me off so much!
I had different experiences with this:

> I bought a withdoll tiny secondhand, and she was cheaper than the original price.. even tho she was limited! the owner even mailed me eyes, a chair for her to seat on and a couple little gifts it was so nice and i'm so pleased!

> On the other hand, this summer I tried to buy a second hand from the "well-known" owner Elfgutz and she tried to trick me very bad, asking like double the price for a little doll that was discontinued (not even limited" and changing her price and currency all the time and then making excuses about it

so in my opninion yes, they should be at least same price if not cheaper, but it depends on its direct owner.

 

I think it depends on a few things. If the doll is limited and there is a big demand, then expect to pay more than what it originally cost. Also, the immediate weeks after a sculpt is discontinued will usually result in a temporarily higher price.
The other time I notice higher prices is when the seller is selling not only a doll but rather a character with a story and all.
Outside of those 3 situations, I expect a secondhand doll to be cheaper.

 

Outside of the handful of genuinely rare dolls that have actually appreciated in value, I think most of those people asking outlandish prices are doing one of two things. One, They bought into the idea that these dolls are easy to re-sell without losing on the investment (and then they count shipping, customs and customization costs on top of it). I assume they'll realize that they need to lower their prices if they actually want to make a sale (or wait until they find that one person who's willing to extra pay for the time-savings).

In the second case I suspect some of those people don't actually want to sell the doll but are making a show of listing it for a spouse or parent who suggested getting rid of it for space or financial reasons. In those cases the overpricing is probably intentional.

In some ways I think the community needs to own some of the blame for unrealistic expectations from new sellers, because so many new collectors are encouraged to buy dolls that they're on the fence about with the words "You can always sell him/her"/"These dolls keep their value", while in reality it's just not as simple as that. Some dolls won't even sell at half the price, and I think we need to be more honest about that as a community.

 

I think you hit the nail right on the head.

 

This is something that made me very hesitant to get into the hobby, just because with the sort of investment that dolls require, I wish we weren't so flippant about encouraging other people to get dolls they're unsure about. Sure, you might not be in dire need of those funds, but what if another doll comes along that they absolutely fall in love with at first sight, but can't justify getting them because they've already bought the lukewarm feelings doll. I have also noticed a lot of posts from newbies that are turned off to the hobby because their first doll isn't what they thought it would be, and sure enough, they were often on the fence about it. Not to say those situations never turn out wonderfully, I'm sure they most often do.

 

Second hand dolls should be cheaper unless they are rare limited editions. A four to five year old doll that the company still makes should not be the same or higher than a new one.

 

What really bugs me is seeing Iplehouse dolls sold on ebay for $1,000+ on the grounds that they are 'limited edition' sculpts, taking advantage of people who might not know that you can get those sculpts new on the 'doll choice' option for half that. I want to put out a PSA or something, haha!

 

I think they might sell at a higher price if they have the doll in hand. Some people will pay extra not to have to wait.

 

Though the OP is explicitly talking about dolls that are not limited edition, and not out of production. We're talking about items that are available for less from the original maker

 

I have been looking for an Iplehouse JID over a period of many months now. When she appears on the MP or on Facebook marketplace, she is often more expensive, or just a bit cheaper, than if I would buy her new from Iplehouse. I understand that some people want to pay a bit more to get the doll faster, but I'm not among them. And it seems that the sellers also have problems selling their dolls, cause they are still there, all of them, bumping from time to time.

And if it's European sellers, I can't really understand it, cause Dollar has increased by 30-35% the last two years, which would make the doll profitable to sell even at the same price they paid two years ago. During the oil price reduction, my currency in Norway, has lost about 35% against Dollars, which make everything I buy today in USD, 35% more expensive, compared to what I paid two years ago. It's a pain in the a... But if I would sell anything I bought a couple of years ago, it would be a great deal, cause I could in fact, reduce my price by 35%, and still not loose money on the sale.

 

I love it when people go "Oh, I'm selling my Chrom Human body for 700 dollars, its just his human body" The human body...the same body I could get if I bought say, a Spinel for 584 dollars brand new...you want me to pay 700 dollars for? Oh, and its not even a tanned skin, but the normal skin tone you see on every Soom doll? Please, enlighten me how a doll, whose head is really what you bought, should be marked up so high?

Or a head, which is years old, has been handled, mellowed/yellowed, and otherwise abused but because it is limited you think its okay to charge 200, 300 dollars...plus shipping.

Oh? You dream of having a complete Soom Raon (she's one of their newest, just using it as an example? GOOD LUCK. Her head will be 250, her hands? Oh because those are so special....75, Those ears? 75 to 100. Feet? Just from the knee down mind you because the thigh doesn't look much different...that'll cost you 150 to 200 dollars. Clothing? You'll be lucky to find it, but if you do..you're looking at probably 150-200 dollars. Then you have the rest of her body to acquire. You won't be able to find the special parts with the body, so you'll have to buy a regular body and make sure it fits. Thats going to cost you anywhere from 400 to 600 dollars alone, depending on the buyer and shipping.

So, total you're looking at roughly (most of these include a rough shipping for them in the price) 1000 dollars to get a doll that sold for about 700. This all being second hand, over a long period of time where you pray it works. OR, you get really lucky and someone wants to sell their whole doll and you manage to get it all before they part it out. If this is the case, you're still looking at 1000 dollars...for a doll that has been used, handled and otherwise abused all because you for some reason or another couldn't afford to spend a large chunk of money at once on the odd month that Soom released the doll you fell in love with.

Its price gouging...and its insane. I've been playing Warhammer 40K for about 8 years, I have limited edition models I paid 75 dollars for day of release, still in the box, still unopened and untouched. You know the most I'll get for that model if I were to post it on DakkaDakka? 80, 90 bucks...including shipping and insurance. Yet here on the forums we support it...because we want those limited sculpts and when we see an opportunity to have them we eat them up like candy.

 

'Love the assumption that collectors all "abuse" our dolls, and that anything sold on the secondary market is absolutely going to be damaged or yellowed or otherwise in poor shape.

That's not always the case. Some of us are very careful with our pricey collectible toys, and you can absolutely find dolls on the secondary market that are still in excellent shape even a decade or more after they were cast. Not all resin is created equal and not all owners are lax about how they maintain their collections.

 

I think it's like any collector's item - some are in great condition and worth a higher price. Some are not. Ultimately an item is worth what someone is actually prepared to pay. Do your research and take solace in the fact everyone makes mistakes but ultimately it adds to your experience. I realise it's not all that comforting but at least you'll know you're not alone.

 

While I agree with you, that there are those who handle their dolls with gloves and store them in the box, in a dry room with no chance of anything getting to them, you're still buying a second hand item. It is unrealistic to think you can buy a decade old doll and not end up with yellowing/mellowing at the -very- least. Even those who say their dolls were stored in a dark room, in a case or whatnot claim there is a slight mellowing/yellowing. Ten years, even in the same position...chances are you're going to need to change out the elastic.

My point is, SOMETHING on/in that doll isn't going to be the same as the day it was cast. It will degrade/lessen/whatever word you chose to use over time.

I'm assuming the only problem you had was the fact I mentioned a doll was abused, and that everything I posted about pricing was otherwise correct. I've been browsing for years now and I have seen far more "mellowed/yellowed, minor damages" on limited dolls than I have "pristine, unmellowed, PERFECT" limited dolls for sale.

 

No. What I have a problem with is the whole idea found throughout this thread that "used" automatically ought to mean "cheap" as a matter of principle, because... apparently... anything that isn't purchased brand new from the manufacturer is automatically somehow an inferior product, regardless of actual condition.

Sure. A lot of dolls on the secondary market *will* have flaws, and should be priced with that in mind. But to say that every doll that isn't brand new from the factory ought to be marked down just because it's second-hand, or because "OMG! The buyer is taking a RISK!"... That's silly.

 

Agreed with this here. It feels like this with pretty much any collector item, honestly-- I collect games and figures/merchandise, and there are some figures that I have that I originally purchased for $150, that are now going for well over $1000 in good condition secondhand. Part of it is just the demand and/or popularity. Though sometimes I don't agree with price inflation, there are other times like with rarer items that I find it relatively understandable.

Like with anything, I think it's a good idea to search very thoroughly and check out all of your options before going all in and buying something. I've found a lot of really good deals that way (for my figures). I would think it'd be pretty similar with bjds. Check out all your options, check the original maker's site to see if it's still available, before you make a final (informed) decision. If the doll is worth the markup, then it is-- if it's not, then don't pick it up, and wait to see if another one shows up somewhere for a price you're more willing to pay.

 

Lately I've seen a lot of "emergency"/"urgent" sales and the doll is almost like twice the price...
Uugh...What? (Again I'm talking about not limited always available dolls)

 

Fight the good fight, Brightfires! I have to wonder what collectors of vintage Rolex watches would say to the argument that (for instance) a 1923 half-hunter should be priced lower than its original selling amount because it's old and therefore inferior.

One of the curses of being what passes for a long-timer in this hobby is seeing certain zombie topics keep rising from their well-deserved graves every couple of years to shed a few more lumps of rotten flesh. Periodically, a new crop of DOA members gets hot and bothered about the unregulated state of the secondary market, or about the "unfair" business practices of some dollmaker or other, or about the "elitism" of limited editions -- and hey ho, time for another zombie jamboree.

Meanwhile, in the real world, sellers and buyers of BJDs, antique dolls, vintage watches, and all sorts of collectible items go on about their business, negotiating the current (and always-changing) secondary-market values of individual things. It's a messy process, and yes, some things will be priced inappropriately sometimes. Just pass them by and go on with life, already.

 

I've been collecting 19th-century photographs, lenses for my vintage Leica and antique cookbooks for much, much longer than I've been collecting dolls. I suspect that may have something to do with the difference in perspective.

 

If someone owns something, I have no say in how they value it. That's life. I DO have a say in whether I agree with the price, and if I would buy it. If someone in the marketplace has put a price on a doll, outfit, prop, etc. I find ridiculous, I "vote with my dollars" and won't buy it. I'll look elsewhere. If their price truly is unreasonable, I WILL find it elsewhere for less. That's the way markets run. Things sell only for what a buyer thinks it is worth, not a seller. Unless a seller gets lucky and finds someone with more money than sense, but that's a different problem all together.

Unfortunately, in collector markets like this one, you will get flippers, price-gougers, and outright scammers. Buyer beware. Do your research on product, fair market prices and sellers. However, if it is highly desirable, discontinued and/or limited, it's more than likely going to skyrocket in price. Art, cars, shoes, baseball cards, you name it; if it's rare and desirable, people are going to ask high prices and there are going to be tons of people more than happy to pay it.

I've learned if you are patient, you might get your chance. I had to wait about 7 years for my grail doll to come on the market for a price that I felt comfortable with. The market shifts over time, and last year's hot doll sometimes falls from grace and suddenly become more affordable. There are no guarantees. That's why I always advise people to buy the doll they love, because buying for investment purposes is such a huge gamble.