Second hand dolls: Shouldn't they be cheaper than new ones?

Of the times I can think of that I've bought secondhand (several times) I had always put up a WTB thread beforehand that stated what I was willing to pay. I don't know if it was that alone that worked for me but I only ever had to pay the price I gave in the WTB. Which was sweet- I think the best buy I scored was a MNF Mirwen, no damage/yellowing, with a faceup from Eludy's, for $400. If I ever found a doll I wanted that was too overpriced, I think I'd look elsewhere.

 

I know it's been broken down a lot already, but what I haven't seen in the BJD community is something that a lot of other hobbies have; an expected price you *should* pay based on different aspects.

A lot of what we have in this hobby is circumstantial.
Is a doll worth more because it's discontinued? Or because it wasn't popular when it was being made (potential reason for the discontinue), is it worth less?
Does yellowing make a doll less valuable because it's "damaged", or is its worth considering because yellowing is a natural process?

I saw cars being referenced here too. Yes, they lose value when they leave the lot. But there's websites out there that you can easily look at an "estimate" of the cars value and base your selling point off of that. BJDs don't really have that.

So where does that leave a seller or even a buyer? If a buyer is looking for a doll, they can easily say "I'm willing to pay X for this doll." The seller then says "Sure, that sounds reasonable."

As a seller it's more like this (For me at least). "So, I looked up on DOA what X doll sold for. Now, this post was in 2011, the most recent was 2016. New, the doll WAS/IS x-amount. Mine might have some light chipping or damage. I can expect that someone might be willing to pay x-amount. If I get the right seller, maybe more?"

There's so much to consider and every doll collector is different. I personally would pay more than probably the average person for a DZ Yuu in tan. It's discontinued and I've wanted it since I was a kid. I'm the buyer who would take a yellowed doll with some damage because I WANT it. Others might look at me like I've lost my mind over an old body DZ boy with Frankenstein feet.

I think that if there was a point of reference it would be easier for everyone buyer and sellers to accurately sell dolls. But it's not something I'd personally forsee happening because of how dynamically different this hobby is from others. (And that's ok!)

 

Well, I sold my first 2 dolls for more than I paid.They took a lot of time to be home and I paid lots of money in fees. I sold for the total price (doll + shipping in the currently dolar) because in Brazil it's always a pain to receive a new doll. It takes too long, the post office service is awful and it's so stressing.

They sold fast because
1- it was easier to the person to pay more and have no hard times.
2- in the website I sold them you can use your credit card to split the total (so it's great because it's like a layaway but you can receive the doll immediately). Lots of people here don't buy dolls because they need to pay all the money in one payment or wait to much to have the doll
3 - I included clothes, shoes and gifts (everyting I bought for my dolls over the years)
4 - they seen so new, no yellowing

I would totally pay more for a doll in the same conditions (brazilian owner, almost new and with lots of accessories)

 

Resin dolls depreciate in value very quickly just as new cars do, many folks don't seem to appreciate this. They aren't like Dollfie Dreams where they often sell for the price they were bought for and in many cases they sell for more on the second hand market than what Volks originally charged for them when pre-ordered. I NEVER expect someone to pay more for a resin doll I have for sale than what I originally paid to the company and I NEVER charge paypal fees (that's cheeky) or customs fees i've incurred living in the UK as I do.The only resin dolls that will possibly retain their value are limited edition versions from popular BJD companies. I've seen several people charging more than the original company price for a non-limited resin BJD and try to justify it by adding a couple of clothes/wig etc. I do that anyway if I want to sell within a reasonable time frame and still don't charge more than the company price.You have to be realistic in this hobby and expect to lose some money. That's why it's so important that you only buy a doll that you really really want, then you can justify all the possible extra fees you will incur such as customs charges. Many of the dolls selling for more are unsold for months because people aren't daft and can easily research on the web how much they cost originally. There isn't big money to be made out of selling second-hand resin dolls, you'd be very lucky to break even especially as money is rather tight for many people. If you know you can get the doll new from the company for the same price or a little more then it's a no-brainer really as you're going buy from the company. I'm not going to pay the same or more for a second hand doll where the resin has started to age already. Plus I don't know where the previous owner stored the doll (I only have their say so), was it displayed in daylight in the open or in a darkened storage cupboard or their box. These dolls are expensive, so factors like that (no matter they may seem trivial to some) are important to me. When you purchase straight from the company you know the only people to have handled it are the company worker(s) themselves and it's been made to order. I only consider buying dolls second hand if they are no longer available with the company or if they aren't discontinued and still readily available, they have to be going for an attractive price for me to want to buy them second hand.

 

I feel like it does make sense to include custom fees and shipping in the price.
Yes, it's the seller who has to pay Paypal costs and, yes, prime cost of the secondhand doll should be lower than the new one.
Makes sense.

But it's also heavily depends on where you live and very subjective!

Let's say you have a doll that's 200euro on the company website. But if I order from the company the tag is not the price that I would have to pay.
Let's include shipping - 50euro. That means that I would have to pay custom fees on 250euro value item (yes! they include shipping as a part of the cost! bite me!)
So once the doll arrives I will have to pay about 80euro extra. In the end the doll with the tag price of 200euro will cost me about 330euro!

Let's say that someone from the country where I live has the exact same doll and sells her for 300euro - 100euro more than the tag price. For me even with the shipping it still would be profitable than ordering from the website. Since the shipping within the country (sometimes within Europe) is always cheaper than from Asia. Not to mention that I don't have to pay customs and I don't have to wait.
And I do think it's ridiculous to expect the owner of the doll to sell for less than it's website price - it basically means that he loses 50% of the value on the brand new doll.

Let's say I want to sell this doll (2 years later). Of course her prime cost will be lower, since she's not new. Let's remove 20% off the price I payed (330euro) and set the price on 260euro.
So if someone from the same country as I am is buying my doll, he will save 50-70euro. Not that bad.
But if you're buying from US, you will probably spend more on shipping and customs.

In the end what's profit for one is a loss for another.
Sure, it's a very basic example. But that's the logic what I use when looking at the marketplace: I may save on the doll, but loose a lot more on the shipping and customs (cheaper doesn't mean more profitable).

 

I agree. I think there is a lot of overpricing on the marketplace.
Unless, it's a limited/rare sculpt or has amazing body blushing or a faceup,
then I don't understand overpricing.

I've seen second hand dolls on here that are like 5+ years old,
and people are still asking for the price of the doll brand new straight from the company!

 

Have sold various dolls before and usually the real kicker are the paypal fees for goods and services that charge on the doll & shipping. Also depending on the seller they might opt to automatically have postage insurance etc on it

 

Really?
Says who?

Honestly, the only people I've seen who are convinced of that supposed
"fact" are relative newcomers to the hobby who expect flea market rules to apply to collectibles pricing. Which they don't and never have. It's not as much of a given as you seem to believe... which, as some of the posts in this very thread illustrate, is a little bit of a rude awakening for people who fully expect "second hand" to automatically equal
"cheap".

 

I totally agree with Brightfires. It is NOT true that these dolls somehow depreciate quickly LOL Not at all. I fully expect that in 100 years the BJD market for the dolls we now have will resemble the antique bisque doll market. Meaning, there will be dolls that go for astronomical prices, while some that go pretty cheap. Even now that's true. If a doll is still available, very common, if it's not been taken care of & has some wear & tear (meaning a little chipping at the neck, a bit of yellowing, needs restringing etc), not particularly rare, one that never was very well engineered, then it's not going to sell for very much. If it's pristine, NOT still available, rare, widely sought-after, then it will go for a good amount of money. This will only continue.

 

If the doll doesn't come with things like a custom faceup, eyes and wigs I don't thing it's worth it to buy a second hand that isn't cheaper than the original.

 

Nah some people are scalpers and they just won't admit it. There's also limited dolls that are sought after a lot but are hardly on the second hand market place which is why people can sell them higher from what they were priced by the company

 

For me its depends on how much i m willing to pay and how much i like the doll! But i think that non limited 2nd hand doll shld be cheaper, but thats my opinion.

 

These are collectibles, so they go for collectible prices. If a doll is in perfect condition, why not sell it for the price you got it? It would beat waiting 4 months for a new one!

 

It's really up to how rare/popular/limited, etc the doll is and also which condition the doll has. If it were in the same condition as the new doll, I would choose to buy a new one. But sometime it's just difficult to get a limited doll first hand, especially with the original price. So the second hand dolls can possibly be more expensive if they are limited one or difficult to get in present time.

 

All my dolls so far have been bought second hand. Mostly because they were not available for ordering at the time I discovered the doll. It's nice to not have the long wait times, but I don't want to pay too much of a marked up price.

 

Buying and selling any collectible can be frustrating. The bjd market is a niche market; availability is limited. It's also a free market; asking prices can be too high, buyers can bid too low. Hopefully, the marketplace endures. If you see a ridiculous offer, I hope you laugh and move on.
(By the way, I have a used paperclip for sale for $100 and I want to buy a Ferrari for the same amount!)

 

Thank you for this thread!
I’m actually buying a doll off someone and both of us have no idea how we should decide on the price.
It’s still a tough discussion but there are lots of good provoking point I realised by reading the thread.

 

For prices there’s always a rule kept in silence:
“If you achieve to sell the item for that price, it is fine.”

What I want to say is, that no matter how high or low the price is: the buyer has the power to choose to buy or stay away.

Especially in the 2nd hand market you’ll see very varying price ranges.
Some sell their dolls for the same price as the company does, some sell it for less, some sell it for more.

To be honest, there will be different aspects to look at when setting/accepting a price for a doll.

For me personally, the following ones are item specific aspects I consider myself helpful when buying a doll 2nd hand:
- age & damages
- modding
- face-up
- is the doll rare?
- discontinued
- additional items (clothes, eyes, wigs, etc.)
- etc.

Possible (personal) reasons for sellers to decrease the doll’s price:
- fast sale
- increasing interest in sale to maximize chance for a sale
- the second-hand-feeling

Possible (personal) reasons for sellers to increase the doll’s price:
- getting back custom fees the seller once paid
- getting back shipping costs the seller once paid
- benefit of skipping extraterrestrially long waiting times due to already prepared item

Last three reasons are kind of weird (in my opinion) and will personally decrease my interest in buying a doll from such seller.
As I said, it’s my personal view. There might be people wanting a doll NOW and are absolutely okay with buying a doll for some extra money to skip the waiting times.

And here it is again:
“If you achieve to sell the item for that price, it is fine.”

 

When I’ve sold dolls, unless it was an in demand limited, I usually knocked a good $50-$60 dollars off the basic company price. I always looked at it as played with (used) means the value will decrease some.

However I have seen the market played where a basic doll, readily available from the company, go for higher than its company price as the doll is in high demand and there are those willing to pay more not to wait months. And at that point, it’s about an individual’s priorities and their personal choice.

 

This is something I've discussed with several people several times and I still haven't quite formed a proper opinion on the matter. The simple fact is that ball jointed dolls don't depreciate in value unless they are damaged or worn. I think this is the same with any other form of art or collectible. It makes sense to me that something of this fine quality that doesn't really go out of fashion but it dictated by personal taste, would retain it's value. I especially understand if the doll is limited edition, not able to be ordered at the time, or difficult to obtain for whatever other reason.

However, I understand this is specifically discussing second-hand selling of "common" dolls that are readily accessible via the original company. I understand the seller wanting to get their money back from a purchase they want to reverse, and I can't exactly blame these people for upping their prices to accommodate for the shipping they paid on the doll. In my mind when I consider these kinds of purchases, I'm paying to do away with the long months long wait I would go through with the company and potential problems of it arriving incorrectly or damaged. By buying the doll second-hand I can see pictures of the specific item I'm buying and can tell exactly it's condition and other information the seller can provide me with that the company doesn't bother to include or I would have to wait several days or weeks via contact to ask about.

That being said, I still don't agree with the price being marked up completely unreasonably high. But overall I understand and can sometimes appreciate these high priced second-hand dolls. Sometimes it's worth it to me so skip the long wait times from a company and receive a bjd I've already seen the exact one of, but I understand how these inflated prices can drive off many potential buyers and negate the sellers attempts at achieving back their full price paid.