Selling someone else's doll?

I had never thought of paying up front before in this equation. However, even if the item is paid up front, and you've not been able to get in contact with the owner, I still think it's ok to sell off the item after a registered letter and an appropriate amount of time has passed. Yes, two months is a bit short to wait in the case of dolls, where we're used to waiting months for things. However, even if paid for, the artist is now stuck storing an item that they may not have room for ( I know a head doesn't take up much room, but how about full dolls in the case of tattoos or blushing or modding? dolls is big!). The artist really shouldn't have that obligation. In the case of "banned" members, there's still an email address and physical address in which to get a hold of them, and DoA has no legal right to be able to keep you from finishing a transaction where money is involved.

I come by this thinking, simply because my dad used to own a car shop. Even when the work was paid up front, he'd sell the car after a registered letter and 2 months after the work was completed. Because 1 car turns into 2 turns into 3. And a compound is only so big. Same as an apartment or house is only so big. If a artist has the misfortune to have 3 SD's sitting around that aren't theirs, do you honestly expect them to hold on to them for forever? through whatever moves and life situations they have? Yes, it would suck if I was stuck in a coma and my dollie got sold. But at the same time, other people live at my residence who'd be able to sign for the letter and get it back. And honestly, if I was in a coma for 6 months, that doll would most likely be the last of my concerns.

I just feel that the artist has rights to not get screwed out of money, and also to not be stuck taking care of objects that aren't theirs for all eternity.

 

I relate it to if you had a roommate and they moved out and left their stuff behind. Sure it's not in good form to get rid of it right away, but once they've moved it's not your burden to store what they've left behind. That being said it's still their stuff. For a doll I would probably give a window of six months before I considered selling it. But once it sold I might hold on to the money for an additional six months before officially keeping it for myself.

 

I would say there should be proper contact made before it gets to the point of selling. I've often thought about this myself as in what would happen if I died tomorrow with my doll that's sent off for commission? I mean in aspect, worrying about a doll isn't that big of a deal if the associated reason for disappearing is death...but I imagine there are people in my family (or my friends) who would want to keep my dollies as mementos. Or maybe someone is in the hospital and can't get on to a computer? Or has some serious injury etc?

I would say a few months should def. be waited but as I said proper contact should try to be made. No one is going to just disappear and leave dolls in someone else's possession. I know of a lot of times doing art/drawing/etc commissions or even plushie commissions - people disappear and not pay for their item but I don't find that likely with BJDs someone already owns.

I mean maybe a case or two that could happen but it wouldn't be likely given the time and price most people invest in dolls. So my first initial though would be injury, sickness, household/family problems, housing problems in general, or in the worst case death. So if messages from the artist are sent to the person for weeks on end and are not being answered...if one of the above is happening it's likely they won't get an answer back for sometime or in worst cases not at all.

So here's what I think should be done. If the person is on DoA, look through they're friends list and maybe contact some of the people very nicely and ask them do they actually know said person (in real life not just on line). Maybe someone in their list lives next door, or down the street, or is close friends with them and will know what is going on with their friend or what has happened to them. Other options, many people on here have their DA or Flickr accounts links. Check how long it's been since they've logged in there. If the disappearance date matches, maybe see if they've posted any recent blogs on DA to suggest they have to leave the internet and way or something. if not...again..maybe post a message on their front page just politely asking if anyone there knows what has happened to the person. Some friends who pop by the page regularly may catch sight of the messages and reply back. If they have a listed email somewhere, try the email account. Or if nothing else try the email account they gave you for their paypal. In some cases that is the person's primary email or at least one they check often. Or maybe if they've a facebook account or something posted somewhere?

It could be that something serious has happened to the person and using these options, maybe you can bump into a family member or close friend who is willing to give you information on what happened to them and where you may send the head (though Id make sure there was some sort of proof the person is who they say they are). And maybe if it's not paid for yet the said person would offer to pay for the item to get it sent to them...or get in contact with the person's closest family members to see if they would...and if it's paid for upfront then there's not much problem there. But if something bad has happened their family may want their possessions back, so it's worth trying to get ahold of them in anyway you can first I think.


If nothing else, I wouldn't feel right about selling the head myself. Because it's an item that does NOT belong to me even if it has been left in my possession it was left in possession for a service not for keeps. I would be afraid maybe something (the worst) had happened and there was no family member or friends to get in contact with (or none visibly linked) and so I would feel guilty selling in case it was due to death or something serious and I would be gaining money from someone's misfortune. I would say holding an auction for the head and taking the money that was due to you for your service (if it hadn't been paid for up front) would be okay...then donating the rest of the money to a charity. But that depends where you stand on the subject. I wouldn't think any less of someone for disagreeing on the matter as it's personal opinion...but I myself would just feel plain guilty. If it goes to a charity at least if it was because the person died or something, their property would be going to help others and not in my pocket due to their misfortune.

 

I think people comissioning things should pay some money up front and the rest when the doll is done and sent back.

And if you are going to sell off a doll that belonged to someone else on the forum, you should post in the sales thread who the doll belonged to originally, and keep track of who it was sold to so if the person does come back eventually and wants to know where the doll is you can point them in the right direction. The person it was sold to should not have to give it back if they don't want to though.

 

I don't know if I responded here before, but I think 6-7 months is a good-enough time. I'd think it be very bizarre that someone lost track of their doll for all that time, but a myriad of legit reasons might have resulted in this happening. Heaven forbid they got into a car accident and have been in a coma, or something where the person was unable to contact the customizer - especially if no one else in the family has access to that person's email, nor knows about this transaction. Then not even family/friends would know to call.

If I wasn't comfortable giving out personal email, contact info, or a phone number, there are plenty of things one could do to keep things purely business. I know someone had gotten a PO box; one could also get a separate cellphone (pay as you go?) for business transactions, as well as a strictly business email.

But what I would also do (though only because this situation has come up) is get ALTERNATE info. Yes, it might be a hassle. Yes, it might seem kind of extreme to the person. But then I tell them that situations have come up within the customizing community like the one mentioned. You tell them that chances are you won't need that much, but it's just in case.

With a lot of major, important things, I tend to want to keep more than just myself in the loop of what's going on. If I'm expecting a package, I tell someone I trust so that I'm not worrying about this all on my own. If a situation like this happened (and I was the customizer), I'd involve other people on my end, so that - if this person comes back to sue after 8-9months of disappearance, only to find that I've sold their doll's head - I have people on my side (along with contact records) to say that a) I tried more than once, and in more than one way to get to them, and b) I'd point to the policy on the contract that says after X months, the customizer can sell an unclaimed doll part. You make that part perfectly clear (in bold) because that's an important part of the transaction.

You are trusting me to give you a finished, well-done product, but I am trusting you to be available for questions and to take back your item under the policy I have clearly spelled out.

(I watch too much People's Court...)

 

I agree with the posters that said that if the comission was not already paid for then the proper thing to do would be to wait a few months and try whatever you can to contact the indivudual (even going through paypal) and if 5 months hs passed then go ahead and sell the doll. I do re-roots on non bjd dolls and i try ro make it a point to keep the packaging they come in so i have the return address.

 

If a doll is so important you would definitely keep tabs on it wouldnt you? Im guessing soething happened that is alot more important than a doll. After a month im sure most people would ask for an update. =S

 

I read through the first couple of pages, and I don't do any commissions, but as a person wanting one I would be more than happy to give them my phone number. Some things happen. On an OT forum I post in, one of the members had a death in the family and then had to have some sort of surgery. If life gets in the way I would love a phone call as a reminder "Hey this is 6 months old I'm about to sell it for myself" or something.
Of course, I don't think i could ever forget about them, especially because i'd have a headless doll sitting around.

Still, I would wait a few months (probably 3-4), send as many PMs, e-mails, etc, and even then I would worry about selling it to someone else because it could get messy if they show up again/

 

Personally, I'd phone up the local police station, find out what the legal requirements are for selling uncollected items and follow what the police say. Laws and regulations differ from place to place and if you fail to follow the letter of the law, then you could be guilty of theft. Usually I'd say there's a set period of time to wait and it would pay to have a list of contacts attempted. I would tend to err on the side of caution. I've run a group order and failed to hear from one of the people involved. As it was only a small amount, I'd rather send the items on than hold onto them.

 

I don't think I could ever feel comfortable selling someone else's doll. Or anything of theirs for that matter. I'd probably just wind up holding onto it forever if it's former owner dropped off the face of the Earth after months of no contact. For that... JUUUUUST in case xD
Really though, if I did a commission for someone and they hadn't paid me yet, then suddenly vanished... I would wait at least 5 or 6 months, trying to get in contact with them, then I'd snap a few pictures of the faceup for my portfolio, wipe the head clean *sob*, and send it back to wherever the return address was. Not my problem anymore, they haven't lost any money, I still get to display the work, they don't get a free faceup, and I don't have that awful guilt.

On the other hand, if they paid up front and I have a return address, I'll send it back as is. If they wanna spring up after half a year and whine about their commission then oh well, that'll be their own fault.

I mean, if they mailed you the head, they GAVE you an address. So you'll have somewhere for it to go back. Yeah it'd suck to wipe your hard work but oh well. But I don't take commissions so I'm probably way off with some... commission etiquette, but that's what I'd do *shrug*

 

I think I'd wait 6 months to a year, probably closer to a year without communication before I sold the head or did anything with it. Then again, knowing me, I'd keep it anyway because I felt bad it was abandoned like that. After a certain point, I woudln't have any sympathy for the owner and I'd do what I saw fit with it unless they had a really really good excuse.
And I agree with AmyAngel, there should be something said up front about an unclaimed head/body part being deemed as ones own if the owner fails to pay/claim it.

I can't imagine failing to claim a doll/head/body part though- not unless of extreme circumstances that kept one away. I, again, agree with AmyAngel- I'd be checking my PMs constantly - I do it when I order a doll from another user, let alone sending out a doll I've bonded with and everything.

 

I would probably give it 6 months, and then sell it. But obviously I would try and get in touch with them first!

I think if I were going to do any modding, I would require a return address - or even better, a phone number. Not sure how many people do that but it's too easy to disappear over email.

 

If it was me, i wouldnt sell it. It's someone else's doll, not mine, but...
to be honest, i'd take care of the dollie like it was my own untill(if) they came back. If a year or two passes without any responce... maybe then i might sell it.

 

I don't think its correct to sell someone else doll (I mean in the situation you gave us). Even if you have to wait months or years for it, why solding a head even if you made some faceup job on.
The original owner don't get the expensive head and faceup back and she/he didn't paid you but its not like the person have steal you so if you DECIDE to sell the doll head its turn out into something like stealing someone else head/doll.

The only thing i'd do without hesitation is just put the head in a safe place and wait.

And if you wait 6 months and the person came back saying she was really sick or something like that and you sold her head. I'd feel really cheap.

Even if you refund the person, I talk for myself but I have sentimental value for my resin and i'd be really pissed.

 

is it even legal to sell someone else's doll?

 

I dont think I would ever sell the head or doll. I would make it a mission to find out what had happened to that person first. I would store the doll away until I heard from them or someone close to them.

 

"Do you think it's ok for the commissioned artist to sell other people's stuff if they fail to communicate? How long is long enough for this to be warranted? "

Hm I think the artist and commissioner should agree on the terms before hand - and also provide alternate contact addresses in case the artist cannot get in touch.

 

I don't know the local laws on this, so this is just hypothetical /I'd check before accepting anything.

If I were to ever do face-up commissions I would include a clearly displayed policy for instances like this, just in case. Multiple means of contact would be a must, or at least the owner would have to acknowledge that I would in no way be held responsible if they failed to answer with what they had provided.
If someone up and vanished I'd probably hold their doll/parts for 12 months or so and exhaust every potential way of contacting them multiple times before deciding what to do with it, whether that be keeping it or selling it on. I have a small house, a large doll crew, and limited space, so it's just not plausible to hold on to everything forever regardless of if I wanted to. After 12+ months and multiple attempts of failed contact I would consider the doll/parts to be mine.
In my opinion keeping them for yourself isn't theft because it's technically your possession by then and wouldn't really be any different than selling it to someone else; some people may feel guilty or bad if the owner asks for it back, but I feel that once that agreed time-frame is up it's left to the customiser's discretion. I'm a huge softie though, so if the person had a good reason for having vanished I'd most likely return it if I hadn't sold it. And, like I said, I don't know if this is how the law sees it, this is just my opinion-shrug-

 

Hmmm that's tough but honestly I'd say wait about a year before selling it. I mean someone paid all that money for their doll I would imagine they really wouldn't forget unless something serious happened. If anything did one year gives tbhem sufficient time for them or a relative to claim it.

 

I would say six months as well. That would be after every attempt was made to contact the owner of the doll. After six months , obviously the owner has more serious concerns in his/her life. But if they ever came back for the doll, what would you say? You'd probably have to give the money back.Ouch!