separate joints or connected ones?

Jul 11, 2009

    1. Ok, I don't know if there has already been a thread like this...but if there already was then please give me the link.

      So I've been seeing many dolls with ball joints FUSED to their arms and or legs and then I see others where their ball joints are completely separate. So I'm asking....which is better? FUSED ball joints to the limbs or separate ball joints? Which has better pose ability? *_*

      Pictures would also be great. Thanks! :)

      ....i suck at titles...:doh

      edit: By FUSED, I mean that one of their ball-like joints is fused with either the lower or upper part of a limb.
       
    2. I haven't seen any fused joints. I would like to see this.
       
    3. I think she means comparing dolls like Volks MSD or SD10 whose elbow and knee joints are part of the lower limb, versus dolls like some the newer double-jointed dolls that have inserts or loose 'floating' balls between the upper and lower limb (newer Kid Delfs and SDC have inserts, Bobobie has a ball at the elbows).

      I prefer connected. I don't like fiddly joints ^_~
      Raven
       
    4. I can think of what you mean in the case of, say, most doll legs are 'fused' with the ball that connects them to the torso, but bobobie has a free floating ball. In this case, I have to say that the fused ball, with a rotating thigh, is a better joint. The bobobie one is interesting and easy to pose with, but relatively erratic and loose, so the leg tends to end up flopping everwhere, even in a sueded and tightly strung doll.

      As for hands and feet, I don't really think it makes a difference in how they pose, but I personally like the free balls for the hands and feet.
       
    5. As an example, in the case of the Ylisande body by Twigling, I like a separate piece. It allows for a complete bend, whereas the fused ball joint does prevent a complete range of motion. Twigling's elbow piece is sculpted with the 'point' of the elbow joint, and looks much more natural than the Bobobie body, which tends to look like a big fat bead more than any piece of anatomy.


      Another example of a joint that works well as a separate piece is the knee cap of the Pukis by Fairyland, which move so that the 'knee cap' always looks natural.
       
    6. Another variation on the theme is what you have with the newer Elfdoll boy bodies. I really like it. The knee joints are the old standby (heh, she said "stand") solid joints, which are great for stability. But the elbows are double-jointed, making for more expressive posing possibilities.

      The more joints, the harder it is to get stability, but the easier it is to pose.
       

    7. What I mean by separate joints is that like putting a ball on the joints or as Ravedolls said, a "floating" or inserted ball. Most other dolls have their ball-like joint fused with either the upper or lower limb part.
       
    8. It depends on the doll and the engineering for which is better at posing, I think. I have both types, but I prefer fused joints. Sometimes they make for less range of motion, but they are also less fiddly. I have Bobobies and that free floating elbow ball is annoying! It doesn't actually do much, so I don't know why it's there. It certainly doesn't serve as a double joint. separate pieces are soetimes good, as double joints work really well for posing sometimes, but I prefer the look of the single fused joints. I'd rather have a doll with slightly more limited posing whose arms and legs I could show off and have look fairly human than one that could do crazy awesome poses but looked like an alien or robot. Also, sometimes dolls with lots of separate pieces can be just as bad as dolls with fused joints in terms of posing limitations because they end up being horribly floppy from too much articulation. In general, though, doll with separate pieces/double joints are the best posers. I do, however, have single jointed boys who can take poses my double joined boys can't. Go figure.*_*
       
    9. So, single jointed vs. double jointed?

      I prefer double jointed. Yes, less stability, but I like being able to pose my dolls more naturally. However, if I really like a doll, being single jointed isn't going to stop me from getting them. xD; And I actually love the Fairyland Minifee's beautiful line bodies. They are single jointed with an almost solid torso. It poses surprisingly well (at least my boys do) despite this and it is beautiful. :3 So how the body and joints look do play a factor, but in general I like double jointed, or joints with a seperate piece in them that allows more movement. ^^
       
    10. dolls that have a loose perfect ball in their joints generally don't pose very well and look very doll-like in the body. They will pose, but their limbs will spin and contort into unnatural angles. Sueding will help this. The obvious ball portions make the doll look like a doll, most people in the hobby prefer that the joints be more well hidden and blended in.

      Most double jointed dolls, like Ylisande, have bean shaped pieces with locks in them to prevent the doll from assuming unnatural looking poses. Dolls with the double joints(that is the floating bean shaped part that allows them to bend their arm or knee completely) tend to have their arms default into a raptor-like arm position. Dollshe's original bodies tend to do this. A lock in the joint will help prevent this.

      In the end it's not that big of a deal. It's whatever you like aesthetically and to play with. :3
       
    11. I prefer the pieces to be 'fused' or at least made with a key-like shape, or tightly fitted together so they don't spin around. My friend has a Supergem, and his elbows drive me nuts whenever he visits, because he's got a loose peanut shaped joint 'floating' between the upper and lower arm pieces. It's always getting turned around and turning the arm wonky. If the pieces fit together tightly, like my DOI elbows where the elbow and lower arm act as one until you intentionally pull the joint out or bend it far enough to bring the second part of the joint into play, those are fine.
       
    12. Separate, as long as they lock well. I LOVE the elbows on my MNF A-line and my Unoa, I wish all of my dolls had joints like that.
       
    13. Ankles I prefer the joint to be seperate: Foot, ankle, then lower leg. All of my dolls minus my SwD Myu and Ye have this set up. It's much easier to have them stand. Ye doesn't stand too much which is fine she's cute as heck without needing to stand. Myu on the other hand....it is the most frustrating thing in the world. Her ankles make it so hard to keep her standing without her feet wanting to go in some odd way.
       
    14. I adore the look of the old Volks bodies with their huge chunky ball-joints. In general I much prefer this type of look: the most basic and most "doll-like" I guess ^_^ But then there's the look of, say, the new DollShe boys and they are so fascinating! I like that, too.

      In terms of playing... my dolls have very basic jointing, and I've not ever played with, say, a Puki or anything with crazy jointing. My friends have basically-jointed dolls in the main, too, but... maybe one day I might get to play with something crazy and maybe everything will change! :D

      I dunno. I just really like jointed things! :D I even love very simple things... I have a St. Tail figurine that just moves her arms up and down and I am still fascinated and easily pleased by this ^_^
       
    15. I prefer connected ones much more. The problem with separate joints is that the joint or the entire limb tends to spin.
      I have a Domuya flexibody which has separate joints and everytime I want to bend the arm, I first have to turn the joint around before the elastic can slip into the joint's slot. When the doll is naked this isn't such a problem, but with clothes on it can be quite a fuss.

      A connected single-joint is much more stable. My Volks and Dollstown bodies have no problem standing, my Domuya body has.
       
    16. I really like the way Angell Studio does their double joints. They can be used as either single or double jointed depending if you "unlock" the lower part of the limbs from the joint pieces or not. It works especially well in the elbows since the separated joint piece is keyed to the forearm it can't spin around like a round elbow joint. My Mell holds poses almost as well as my Dollfie Dreams do and I haven't restrung or sueded her.
       
    17. How do the joints lock to keep a position in place?
       
    18. wow, I didn't even know there were dolls like that. Mine has all fused joints.
       
    19. bump for more posts lol