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Separating the Face Up from the Sculpt

Jan 8, 2022

    1. So, this might seem odd, but I personally really struggle with 'liking' a doll/sculpt until I see it with a face-up I happen to like. To me, without face-ups, sculpts tend to start to fall into broader categories and I find it hard to see the difference between them. That creates a conundrum, as then, it's only possible to buy a doll for its company face-up (so you're always buying dolls with someone else's design, foregoing an entire avenue of customizability) or you buy sculpts you're unsure of and hope for the best with regards to designing a face up. How do you 'see' the potential in a blank sculpt? In my case, at least, I don't like simple/lowkey face-ups (which comprise most company face-ups, hence I'm picky about dolls) but I also can't look at a blank sculpt and imagine something dramatic. How do you guys 'see' the potential in blank sculpts, and come up with unique ideas far removed from the doll maker's original portrayal of the doll?
       
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    2. For me, I typically have a character already created and in my mind before I even start looking at sculpts. So when I'm ready to start shopping, I already know "this one needs a bigger nose" or "that one needs pouty lips" and I go from there. Even if a lot of sculpts are similar, at least I know basics of what I do or don't want.

      Past that, I feel like in many cases, the faceup actually matters a lot more than the sculpt itself. I may be alone in this, but in my head, it's similar to those makeup videos where a regular person makes themself look like a variety of vastly different actors or characters using nothing more than makeup. While an artist can't change the shape of the head without modding, they can create illusions. And I rely on that a lot!
       
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    3. It sounds like we're of a similar mindset. My biggest hang-up is having to actually come up with the transformational make-up while staring at a blank sculpt. It feels more difficult to me than say, starting an artwork on a blank canvas because most times, when you go to a canvas, you do so with a specific idea in mind. But I don't have those 'visions' for face-ups.
       
    4. I think a lot of it comes with time and experience in the hobby. I got my first doll almost 14 years ago, and I have done hundreds of faceups in that time, so a lot of it is has just been experimenting with what works or doesn't and trying out different styles. I got my first two dolls blank and just dove straight in, and honestly, they were both a mess until I started learning the techniques and finding my style. I know that isn't very helpful, though.
       
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    5. I never had this issue you are facing. However, I do struggle to find the right head sculpts, more so in the past, when there were a limited number of aesthetics being created. I have since stopped purchasing BJD, but what helped me back then, with the limited number of styles available was Photoshop. If I saw a blank head sculpt, I liked, I would do several mocks of it in Photoshop, to see how I wanted to paint it, if I was to bring it home. Or if I had a particular character in mind, I wanted to see if I would need to do mods. I was able to plan a lot of face ups and mods that way, in the past when I was actively purchasing dolls or head sculpts of this kind. Not everyone has an image editing program to use, but most are now available for small amounts of money, on a license type of use, instead of a purchase. Or, for free trials if you are able to find some. Most are pretty easy to use, even if you've never tried (IMHO, which might be pretty biased all things considered). Hope that helps. (:
       
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    6. Hmmm, that's interesting to read your perspective. I never had this issue even when I was new. I've always preferred to see a doll blank then I can get a good idea for what I could do with it. But I've always been quite artistic, if that makes any difference. I have no issues visualising or imagining stuff.
       
    7. I have a good feeling by now what is actually sculpting I want vs what is just faceup trickery. I for example like full lips, and I hate it when the actual head has slim, barely there lips and it's all painted on.

      Looking for owner pictures of a head usually helps as well. Both a blessing and a curse, when you realize they all do the same trickery. I for example love LLT Roderich on images, but I know his head has a lot of parts I do not enjoy in real (I owned one briefly). Doesn't stop me from fawning every time I see a nice custom of him, and then realizing it's just the faceup/photo that hides the eh parts.

      So what I usually do is: look at the company photos very closely, and look for certain areas that are a must for me. For me that means how the lips and nose look like, how big the eyes are compared to the rest of the face and how far/close they are to each other. Is there an actual bone structure or is it more a smooth anime face with features on top? Afterwards, owner pictures of the doll customized. Then I take a blank company photo and Photoshop to paint the faceup on I imagine.

      I paint faceups myself, so I already know how I want to paint a head. But I also save a lot of faceup references.
       
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    8. I am the same way. Many of my dolls have default face ups both because I like them and because "seeing" a blank head like others do is difficult for me. I have a few of dolls that have needed face ups in the past, two of them I just gave the artist a general color scheme and expression I wanted them to have (one turned out okay one not). Another time I gave reference photos for a theme I was looking for and she turned out lovely. My last faceup commission was more complicated. I took months of drawing the head shape and using colored pencils to play with ideas (no photoshop) and for ones I thought I would really like I used water-colored pencils to "draw" on the idea to see how it might actually look (then wiped it off). That helped a lot but took awhile. I have another blank doll who is beautiful but it's been months and I still cannot imagine a face up on her, which is frusturating.

      I think some people have a different knack for things in this hobby than others. I do look up customer photos a lot if I am considering a head sculpt, I think I am getting better at identifying parts on a head I like better than others (been in the hobby more than 10 years) . . But still cannot "see" a faceup unless I have a very specific character in mind. . . I use lots of reference photos when dealing with blank dolls.
       
    9. It partly depends on the company faceup. I have had two times where the company's faceup was... not bad, per se, but faceups can emphasize some parts of the doll, and de emphasize others, so much so that I absolutely did not like that sculpt at all. Then later on the doll was re released, or used as a wig model with a different faceup, and it was amazing how what I had thought was the shape of the mouth or cheeks was actually the faceup because the second version looked completely different.

      That doesn't happen all the time though, and some of it is the staging in the pictures. Often it's easy to say okay, the shape of the jaw is this, the shape of the nose is this, the brow is slightly down to make a scowling face.
       
    10. I'd say thinking about it in term of "face" vs "makeup" is what helps me the most - we are dealing with this in RL every day - face shape vs the dye you put on it. To me the sculpt is the face so to figure out how it will look "in make up" I just have to think about what features work or do not work for what I have in mind in RL. For example - heavy, complex eye shadows need a good amount of visible lid space, nose size can't really be "altered" much so it's important to like it in the sculpt to begin with, lips can be "soft border" which means you can visually "size" and shape them as you want, or "hard border" which gives you less options, but creates a more defined facial features. Cheekbones are a very good "maturity" tool - more defined cheekbones make the doll look more mature when soft ones lead to more teenage look, especially if you "triangle" blush them. Brow bones again can be "soft" or "defined" - if they are pronounced they kind of dictate where you will have to put the brows vs smoother look that allows you more freedom... Jawline you can "alter" with a right wig, but chin to lips distance is there to say - so as with he nose, you better like it.
      The thing is - a LOT of BJDs are "blank canvas" - their sculpt suggests very little and with a few tricks you can turn them in to pretty much anything. And with the few that are very "defined" you can "see" the face right away.
      So for me if I'm not "seeing" the "face" the moment I look at the sculpt I tend to go with "it'll be what I need it to be, just put more paint on it" philosophy :lol:
      With a good make up you can turn a person practically unrecognizable this days, and it is even easier to do on dolls. So be certain about the faceup you want first and than pick a shape that does not interfere with that plan :)
       
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    11. I am the same way! With the exception of 5 out of my 20+ dolls, they all have their company face ups. I admit, I tend to buy a doll if I like the face up. (My criteria are very simple: does it have elf ears or not haha.)

      If I am not sure about the sculpt, I look for owner photos just to see what others have done with their own dolls and that can give me a good idea on if I want it or not.

      Recently, one of my favorite companies re-released a doll I already own. Her face up was different so I couldn't tell if she was exactly the same or if they had tweaked her sculpt. I asked for a blank photo which they did send and I could tell she looked JUST like the one I already own. Therefore, I didn't order her. I already had her and I didn't want two of her.

      I also do not do face ups (or makeup - I am lazy with my own face) so I pay others to do it for me. I just make sure I look up what I want and put it in my commission.
       
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    12. I have an entirely different problem, but in a similar vein. I buy a head, specifically for the face-up, and then end up getting it and realizing that I didn't like it all that much when I actually held it in my hands. It's almost stupid the amount of time I spend looking at a doll and then realizing that the face-up is entirely different in person vs online. Some companies are pretty reliable with their photo VS actual, but still, it's a challenge.
       
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    13. While everyone works differently and some are naturally just better at faces than others, it is a skill and all skills can be improved with practice.
      Look at a lot of dolls, if possible look at the same sculpt both blank and with several different face ups to help train your brain to not just see past the face up, but also to start coming up with your own ideas and to learn what makes you like certain face ups and not others.
      If at all possible, try looking at beginner face ups too. Most beginners start out with an incomplete skill set. This means that one beginner may have nailed the soft shading, but lack the finesse to make fine line work. Another have mad brush skills from years of painting miniatures, but have never worked on the larger scale of an SD-sized doll, so their details are good, but not the over all look. And so on. This helps you isolate the different elements of the face ups in a different way than you can if only looking at the expertly made ones.

      Looking at owner pictures in general is great too. All levels of skill, all levels of cameras and lighting and all variation in how well the owner know thier doll and it's quirks gives a much broader image than company pictures alone ever could.
       
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    14. I am a pretty avid user of both Photoshop and Clip Studio, and while I did tool around with it the way you described, it almost feels as though an artist's block overtakes me when it comes to dolls, specifically. I draw a lot, so it isn't a lack of experience, per se, but something about taking someone else's face and then designing make up for it myself

      I see we're dealing with the same issue. I think part of the problem is that it feels like you are working to modify someone else's work. The sculpt is not a blank slate, and it is obvious that each one was made with a specific intention in mind (this is especially true for fantasy sculpts). It oftentimes feels strange and wrong to take the work of someone else and use it for a different intention, because the dolls you see on the company website look like their own people, and it's hard to separate that image from the 'blank slate' you receive in the mail.

      I am artistic too, but something about having to essentially draw on the work of others throws me off.

      Looking for owner pictures is a good idea I hadn't thought of, although yeah, the trick is the same. Thanks for breaking down for me how you examine the sculpts- some other people mentioned 'looking for what you like' but I didn't quite understand how that went since I often judge a sculpt literally at face value. Specifically, looking for bone structure is something I hadn't thought of but definitely felt. The best sculpts are definitely the ones that are shaped like a real person's face.

      Yeah, I think part of the problem is that many, many sculpts are the same neutral expression with slight alterations here and there. There is very little 'guidance' from the sculpt on how it's meant to appear, with some exceptions.

      This is a unique perspective. I hadn't thought about looking at beginner face-ups, but it definitely makes sense from a learning perspective.

      That's troubling. How does one even distinguish which photos are reliable and which are excessively doctored?

      Haha- I don't do my own make-up either. Never have. I definitely think buying dolls based on face-up is very sensible, but I have this weird sense of guilt surrounding my own artistic integrity. Something along the lines of, "oh no, are these dolls really mine if I merely chose clothes for them" and "I'm an artist, I should be able to do my own, or at the very least design references for an artist to commission" but I know, intellectually, that it's all bull because, well, these are hobby dolls. Made to be fun.

      A lot of what you say about the specific features and what they imply for the face-up seems to be a subtle mark of your experience. These little details definitely help in knowing what to look for.
       
      #14 gildor, Jan 9, 2022
      Last edited by a moderator: Jan 11, 2022
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    15. Oh absolutely! There's dolls where I really do not like the sculpt, and most of the face ups, until I see that one faceup that looks perfect and then I finally see the appeal (5th Motif Venitu is one of these—every time I see one for sale I have to remind myself that I only like the one faceup, and not the doll itself). I think a lot of it is in, not only the quality of the faceup, but the personal appeal of the faceup.

      I like more realistic faceups, but someone who doesn't like as many wrinkles and skin texture would hate them, even if they liked the sculpt. And vice versa.
       
    16. I've seen more blank or custom faceup Volks dolls recently and wow they actually look so good, and are sculpted so well? I'm realizing that it's just the default Volks faceup style that grates on me. I haven't even considered a Volks doll before but I sure am now.
       
    17. For me, I would always appreciate if I could see both the blank version of a sculpt, and some examples of faceups on it. Being able to see the sculpt blank helps me to get a better grasp of any subtle facial features I might be working with for the faceup.

      It's the company's faceup that first catches my attention towards the sculpt. From there I try to see if they have any blank pictures of the sculpt, and search for owner pictures with custom faceups. Different custom faceups on the sculpt helps me see the potential of how different the sculpt can look.