Sex and Nudity within the BJD Community

Oh, drat. I managed to say something idiotic, didn't I? D=
Of course women can (and do) enjoy porn. As a teenage girl with many, many female friends older than I am, it makes itself pretty clear. Not all of them in the same way as my male friends- for one, my male friends are considerably more shy about it, mostly because it has implications of... associated activities. Posing a doll (or two dolls) suggestively, to me, isn't... porn. Or at most, isn't anything other than really softcore porn. There's implicit sexual acts going on but it's all in your head- it's like reading a book instead of watching a film. Even the most hardcore novel to be found can't actually 'show' a sex act obscenely unless it's illustrated. You keep track of the action in your head and let your imagination do the work. It's better that way. Just one opinion, and probably likely to be shot down like whoa, but... I came in here late, didn't I?

 

Erm... Answering the original question...

I don't find a problem with sexual acts or nudity if its done TASTEFULLY. As long as it isn't raunchy and nasty, I don't mind. Like... classic burlesque... Dita von Teese style!


Sex is a beautiful thing. It was created for us to convey our passion and love. As long as it's done with tact, I have no problem.

 

· What are your thoughts on BJD photography showing scenes of a sexual nature or implying sexual content? In all honesty, I'm not very fond of sexual pictures of dolls. That said, I'm also not very fond of sexual images in general. I think culture (at least in Canada and the US; where I've grown up and live now) is too over-sexualized to begin with, and I took up this hobby as a way to get away from the real world for a little while. Although, in general, any photography that's done in good taste is ok. I just hate sexual images for the pure fact of sexual feeling.

· How do you feel when BJD's are reffered to as being "Sex Dolls" by people from outside the community? I think it's just ignorant. End of story. The dolls are made very correctly, but that's more good artistry and attention to detail.

· What about the differences in culture between doll owners. Whilst one person may have come from a society where nudity and sex are considered to be beautifull things, another may have come from a society where such subjects are considered unacceptable. Is the cultural barrier something that changes peoples opinions on sexual content in doll photography? It changes a persons view on sex to begin with; so of course it changes the view on sexual doll photography.

· With so many nude photographs of real women and men out there in the world, why should photographing inanimate objects that portray similar statue to human beings be considered wrong? It shouldn't. End of story. These dolls are in many ways little people. From the look, to the emotional attachments, to the stories and characters behind them; of course people would turn around and use the dolls to act out human things. Nude photography included. Seriously, I think the same rules should apply to dolls and people this way. If someone wants to take the picture, and has a willing model (which you always do with a doll); then take the picture. Put keep it in it's place. Don't have graphic pictures somewhere were kids can find it without proper warnings and such.

· What about the need to find a romantic partner for your BJD? Whether or not they choose to engage in sexual activities or pose nude for photoshoots. Do dolls really need to have a girlfriend/boyfriend? What about same sex couples? Is it frowned upon to do such things seeing as they are "just dolls"? I don't think so. I think it's just another way of fleshing out the characters. Just like with fictional drawn/written characters, relationships can develop, and as long as both people involved (character owners) respect the other owners wishes, I see nothing wrong with anything this way. If someone wants a same sex relationship for their doll, great. If they want het. great. If they want kiddie/adult, not so great but as long as its not REAL people then as long as I don't have to see it, whatever.


So, all in all. I don't personally like overly graphic nude/sexual pictures, but have no issue with artfully done photography, implied sex or not. And really, as long as it's in it's place, I don't think people should be harassed for taking any type of picture, as long as they don't put overly graphic pictures in the wrong places. As well, there's always the "Don't like, don't look" rule.

 

It's an expression of artistic form, I think. It's kind of porn, and in my eyes it doesn't really matter if it's a doll or a real person I'm photographing '_'
And believe me, it's really hard making good and aesthetic dollie porn, which doesn't look stupid.

They can't be real "Sex Dolls" because....you, eh...can't do really naughty things with them (I think everybody knows what I mean).

Maybe they are anatomically correct, so what? It just make them looking and handling better than a stupid Barbie. And If I want a doll with big breast, why not? Maybe it fits to her character? In the world are not only thin girls with little breast.

Just because my doll have things like this (or look like this and that) it doesn't have to mean my doll represents my sexual fetish O_o'

Yeah, I think so. (Maybe I'm saying something stupid now, but I just tell you about my personal experience, so don't be mad at me ):

You know Deviantart? It's a site run by Americans.
They have a artistic nude photography section. Every photo in that section is under mature content. Why? Because the people are naked!
It's not the only american site I know, where people freaking out when you see something naked. It's the same with photobucket, when you upload a normal drawing nude they delete it.

Don't understand me wrong. It's a big opposite between real porn (with an erect penis and other porno liked stuff) and just nudity. When I see a normal naked man, standing and doing nothing, why should I think it's mature content?O_o'

In Germany we just laugh about it. It's the most normal thing in the world. What do these people when they are underaged and undress themself? Closing their eyes, because human nudity is just something for adults? >_>

Normal nudity can be very aesthetic and great to look at.
A good made artistic nude photoshoot can be very pretty and well looking. With dolls it's the same for me.

Official doll photos with naked dolls (for showing how they look naked) are nothing for me to go crazy. It's just a naked doll, nothing more and nothing less.

When you think about a character for your doll, why not think about a suitable boy/girlfriend? And when they are a couple, why not showing them kissing or huggling naked? We want them as little beings, and it's just so, that (nearly) everybody long for a suitable partner.

Believe me, personally I just think people don't have to make Doll porn, but If they want to (and If it's well made): Why not?


I hope no Americans will be angry now, but it's my personal experience that nearly every hosted site by Americans is very excessive when you just see naked breast (OMG!) on a beautiful woman, posing in a forest with a harp in black and white >_>'

 

It's hard to remember that the original Amerian people were Quakers and Religious pilgrims fleeing persecution in the European world. The American 'Moral Standard' is stemmed from those religious beliefs so many many many years ago. We never really 'grew out of it' , as it were.

Generations upon generations of parents telling children that nudity of -any- kind is immoral and wrong, that being comfortable with one's own sexual nature is inherantly Evil, and that showing that attraction in any public way is a blasphemy will certainly have an impact on society as a whole.

I grew up in Germany, and so perhaps my ideas of what it 'inappropriate' and not are different from the majority of those here in the states, but I think morally speaking, we're growing up a little bit. My generation and the generation after (in a very generalized broad sense) are far more open and comfortable about the naked human body, nudity in an artform, and one's own sexual nature than the generations that came before.

Yes. The American people are uptight. That, I won't deny. Movies are rated R for innuendo alone. Things are given Mature ratings for simple artistic nudity. Honestly, I imagine that there are a LOT of children out here that have no idea what the opposite gender looks like under those clothes. Or, for that matter, what a grown-up body looks like of their own gender. It's sad, really.

Anyway... to the original question posted - I don't see anything wrong with it, inherantly. It's terribly difficult to get dolls to pose in HIGHLY suggestive ways (Say cheap trashy porn ways). I think it's all a matter of personal taste. I find a lot of the pictures taken to be quite artistic, and tastefully done they can be very beautiful.

 

Well unless people have some super realistic dolls that I haven't seen BJD's can't really make anything I personally would consider "porn". I have seen some really bad adult situation photostories that are just bizzare and honestly defy anatomy. I have also seen well photographed intimate scenes that convey the physical attraction between two "people" who love each other. I don't see anything wrong with either, much like porn no one makes you look at it.
I also don't think that women don't enjoy porn, I suppose they don't enjoy sex either? Maybe we all want to wear a apron and have dinner ready for hubby every night

 

I am a VERY sexually open person who... well, I'm an adult and I LOVE to participate in adult things (lets just keep it at that). Yet surprisingly I would never consider taking pictures of two dolls doing anything adult like. It would feel so weird to be using a doll, which has long been associated with children, to be doing an adult act. Yet I would never condone someone who does.

 

I've always been a sexually open person...open about my sexuality, that is. However, I feel that any photo taken without some artistic purpose (aka to be a work of art or to display art, like face up or clothing) is sort of wasted. Nudity is acceptable to me as long as it's artistic and not just...porn.

 

Personally, I think it's really up to the owner. If you want to take nude artistic pictures of your dolls, great for you. If you want to take doll-porn photos, whatever floats your boat. Not all nudity has to be porn, but not all photos have to be artistic either. If everything had to be weighed by its artistic merit, this would be a tediously boring world indeed. Also, there would be far less pictures out there.

In the end, I judge naked-dolls shots or dolls-boinking-photos like how I judge every doll photo out there; is it well-done? Pretty photos get more attention (but what I see as pretty relies on my personal taste naturally). Of course, with dolls-boinking photos, it has more potential to come off as pretty ridiculous and funny when it's badly done.

 

As long as they warn people what it is that they will view if they do dare to, then it's okay. It's really the owner's decision on what to do with their dolls. The world is big, a lot of people live in it, and we just can't help having different gauges on what pornography is or what art really is. However, it is not the owner's decision to make people view the photos, it is the actual viewer's. So, having warnings and other precautions are a must, I think, when they do post these type of photos.

(I don't really have much to say on the topic of doll pornography myself because a lot of what I have to say have already been said and, well, it's really all on the "live and let live" sort-of thing.

 

What are your thoughts on BJD photography showing scenes of a sexual nature or implying sexual content? Do you think that people who photograph their dolls having sexual intercourse is considered to be perverted or an expression of artistic form and love? What about if the sexual scenes are of a form of rape or abuse? Should people be allowed to photograph such scenes (photographs of this content are not allowed on DOA)

People are allowed to read such scenes and anybody in the world can walk into a book store and buy a book. Photographs are just another way to express an event or an idea and taking a photograph of your doll in a sexual situation is no different than creating two characters and writing a scene that may or may not be graphically sexual or beautifully sweet. Photography is inherently artistic anyway, so the question should be, is it wrong for people to enjoy their art anyway they want to? I don't think that people should be allowed to put graphic art or story content on a site that is available to minors and Den of Angels does not. There are other websites online that support "adult" photos of dolls doing "adult" things. Controversialdoll.com for one. Aside from that, most (and when I say most people I mean a good chunk of them, but not everybody) people's dolls are their beloved characters and at which point, also their property and can do whatever they like with them. In short, or in long rather, no. I don't think people who take sexual photos of their dolls are perverted in anyway at all.

How do you feel when BJD's are referred to as being "Sex Dolls" by people from outside the community? Do you believe it's wrong for them to think such things when there are dolls such as "Full Nobility Royma" available? What about Unoa dolls being created by a famous hentai artist? Mods such as the XXXL Dollfie Dream bust? The fact BJD's are often anatomically correct? Are all these aspects which contribute to people having a negative image about BJDs?

I will admit that my mother calls my boys "girls". She knows they're boys, but she says that they look too much like girls with their sweet faces and long hair. She also proclaims the penis doesn't matter. But that's another story all together. Most people I have talked to believe the boy dolls to be girl dolls and most of the time I find myself correcting them. Some of my friends do not. It is unique in my honest opinion.

I've never had anyone refer to my dolls as "sex dolls" and people who do refer to them as that really have no idea what they're talking about both things considered. I do agree with what another DoA member said a couple of posts back, big boobs are natural and uncomfortable.

What about the differences in culture between doll owners. Whilst one person may have come from a society where nudity and sex are considered to be beautiful things, another may have come from a society where such subjects are considered unacceptable. Is the cultural barrier something that changes peoples opinions on sexual content in doll photography?

Some people just don't like nudity. I had a friend some years back who had a problem with all kinds of nudity and didn't even like talking about being naked, much less seeing someone else naked. I stand by the same rule I always have when it comes to something a person doesn't like: You have free will. Don't look/experience or read something you are not interested in seeing and most definitely don't alert the person that what they're doing is wrong in your honest opinion. I have had this problem when it comes to writing fiction, more people have told me "that pairing is wrong, you suck", which doesn't do anything other than make you look like an ignoramus.

Going on. Cultural ideas and barriers are another thing entirely. You can't make someone see your point of view, but you can always educate them on it. They will either listen to what you have to say and make their own choices or they will ignore you completely. Most cultural barriers are based on religion. The church has been telling people for years that things like sex and nudity are wrong, especially when it comes to women. I won't get started on this, there will be six pages of sited literature.

With so many nude photographs of real women and men out there in the world, why should photographing inanimate objects that portray similar statue to human beings be considered wrong? Would it be acceptable for someone to photograph a naked Barbie over a naked BJD? How do you handle just plain doll nudity in photographs?

There is a difference between nude and naked. Nude is women in tasteful poses and naked is everything else. At least, so it was explained to me in an art class some years ago. As also pointed out in the previous question's answer, some people don't even like nude humans. Our dolls are very human-like, they are considered to be the ideal man or the ideal woman, but they are still smaller than humans and are sometimes, therefore, considered to be children. They are not and we know they are not, but other people think differently.

What about the need to find a romantic partner for your BJD? Whether or not they choose to engage in sexual activities or pose nude for photo shoots. Do dolls really need to have a girlfriend/boyfriend? What about same sex couples? Is it frowned upon to do such things seeing as they are "just dolls"?

My dolls are my characters from my novels and blurbs and writings and various other things, they are muses of the mind and a muse is a thing that one does not want to anger, for then they leave and never come back. New ones come and go, but the ones you want to come back are too busy having a tequila on the beach in some muse resort. My muses/characters have boyfriends that they are not happy without and an unhappy muse does not preform well. So... That about covers it.

 

If people want to take iffy pictures of their dolls, that's fine, as long as anything harmful in their photostories or fantasies doesn't spill into "real life". Just like violent video games, there are some that use them as outlets and others that get so engrossed in it that it ends terribly.

My personal opinion? I really don't want to see your dolls going at it, and a lot of "artistic doll nudity" really isn't artistic at all. I've seen some pretty disturbing things in dolly photoshoots and would've appreciated it if i'd been warned.

However, my personal opinion on whatever someone's doing with their doll doesn't change the reality that its perfectly okay for them to do whatever they want with it. I know some really perverted people, and while their interests confuse and often disgust me, they aren't hurting anyone. As long as it stays like that, well, whatever floats your boat.

 

I know that the doll is the owner's property and thus the owner is able to do as they please, but my small two cents it that it just looks odd. It's like a little kid exploring sexuality with their barbie dolls. Not to say that artistic nudity is poor taste, per se. Nudity as an art form is an exploration of our bodies... when done correctly (because racey, obviously poorly done shots merely for shock value hardly is art). But when people put their dolls in sexual/relationshippy positions, I personally feel that it's a bit... well, silly. They're dolls. Inanimate objects. As much as we love them (and want them! Ooooh the want...) and value them, they're still just dolls.

I kinda feel that it's the person using the doll vicariously to stimulate such sexual positions, much in the same way that I feel about fanfiction and fanarts (especially when it deals with shounen-ai). And when it comes to rape and abuse, I think that it's, again, a psychological factor going on in there. From what I've noticed in the fandoms, especially in fanfictions and fan rps, the majority who are utterly in LOVE and OBSESSED with abusive shounen-ai have come from either physically or sexually abused pasts (defintely not saying here that ALL fans come from such pasts, but from what I've noticed a majority).

The tricky thing here though is that not everyone is like that. Some people are so utterly comfortable with not only their sexuality but other people's sexuality, that they don't care what form it may be (real people, doll, stuffed animals, musical notes, etc...) and will value it as art.

So I guess, on a universal scale, it comes down to the ballpark answer; if you don't like it, don't look. On a personal viewpoint, ain't for me on account that they're dolls and it's kinda odd that people would want to place them in sexual positions.

 

Hilarious!​

 

I always have to chuckle at myself when I come to consider the ethical principles of things such as mature anime, nude art, and atomically correct dolls. I come from a conservitive Christian family, and I still consider myself a conservitive Christian (please don't equate that with hate, and I have no intention of starting a religious debate, I promise!), so I have a lot of first hand experience with people judging before understanding. Heck, the first reaction most of friends had to my first doll was a somewhat negative "Wow, she has big boobs!" which technically was incoorect, as she was perfectly perportional to her thighs and buttox.

Anyway, the first question I have to ask myself before I assess the situation (because unfortunately, almost every situation must be assessed individually) is, what is the motivation of the art or picture? Is it to provoke feelings, desires, fantasies or thoughts of a sexual nature with those featured or with another? Is it to express a concept or idea that the artist is trying to communicate as either good or bad? Is it a study of form?

I'm still working through some of these questions, but my first personal belief is that, though and because sex is a beautiful thing, the sanctity of it should not be jepordized by simply photographing it to get the same feel. Sex is intimacy between two people, a private act. No one wants to walk through a park and see a naked couple, hetero or homo, going at it on a bench. Aside from the fact that the viewer would most likely feel violated, it is a disrespect for the act, emotion, and relationship that should accompany sex. Even photographed sexual intercorse between a couple seems to me to jepordize the sanctity of the relationship. This goes for dolls or humans.

Hugging, kissing, and generally loving on eachother in photos is an expression of love, whether it be between people or dolls. I have no problem with that. But beyond that it seems to not be nessisary or healthy.

Dolls created or modded to be sex images fall under my personal catagory of inappropriate, and in a way, sad. I guess more than anything I feel bad for people who resort to making dolls to stimulate their sex drive. Beyond that, it is this that gives abjds a bad name.

Finally, abjds are, in essence, an art form. Part of that art is the fact that they are atomically correct. Photos studying the form and beauty of the human body are an expression of that art. It can be done tastefully and without sexual motivations.

 

I agree with the last part of your post--nudity does not=sex (which is something that people often forget).

However, I don't agree with the rest of the above. I can see where it might bother you personally, but there are other ways of looking at it than being sad or inappropriate. Whether a photoshoot/story is appropriate or not really depends on the house rules: DoA is PG13, for instance, but other forums are not.

There are different ways to look at sex. To me, ideally in real life, it is an act of love, but that doesn't make it sacrosanct or unexplorable through art. Sex is a basic human instinct and need, and therefore it is perfectly normal to find it interesting and something that gets depicted and discussed a lot. It is also unsurprising that it ends up in doll art, especially since our dolls are very beautiful and posable--in short, perfect for the job.

Art can be merely a celebration of form, but it can also contain erotic elements as well. There isn't always a clear line between what is art and what isn't. Topics that interest us, especially those that carry some kind of taboo with it show up in doll art a lot, because it is a safe way to deal with the subject matter. Some people want to explore this basic human need, or the owner is wanting to depict the relationship between characters which includes sex, or maybe even to satisfy their own curiosity. Stimulation may or may not be part of it, but I wouldn't view dolly erotica as some sort of last resort or replacement for actual sex in a relationship. What it is, however, is an expression of interest in a very basic part of being human.

I personally don't think it's worth worrying too much about giving abjds a bad name with this. Most people aren't all that aware of what abjds even are, nor do they particularly care. There's plenty of things in this hobby (some of which are quite innocent) that can be taken out of context and be misconstrued as weird. Trying to protect our reputation so to speak would be one giant headache and quickly impinge on the ability to use these dolls as a creative medium. I view photostories the same way I view books, graphic novels, tv, and movies. It's a story telling medium first and foremost, and not all stories are rated PG.

 

so normally I would side with people should be able to do what they want with their own property BUT I just saw this doll and it bothers me..

http://notdolllab.com/shop/step1.php?number=465

There is just no good reason to make a "happy ending" doll like this..

 

@PhoenixRising, in that case, perhaps you'd better not look up the famous Unoa O-Face plate. XD
(Another envelope has been pushed! Oh, NotdollLab, you slay me.)

Wow, so "anything beyond hugging & kissing" is unnecessary/unhealthy/wrong? That shows a lack of psychosexual development, and that is sad. Sex does not have to be a Serious Issue, it does not have to involve abuse, it does not have to be a symptom of something dark and horrid in someone's soul, and it bloody well is necessary. It's life and light and joy in a grim world-- whether it's a sacred ritual joining of two married people in a bedroom with the door locked, or whether it's a quick boink with a pretty stranger in an alley behind a nightclub. You can elevate sex to the level of some celestial gift, or you can wallow in it as an animal instinct. It works both ways. Some people prefer to avoid the topic altogether in polite company, and that's fine; others enjoy adult-themed entertainment as fun for its own sake, and that's fine too.

(I have noticed that, too often, the whole concept of "fun" gets overlooked in these debates. Fun is such a basic thing, and gets so easily ruined by overanalysis.)

And as we all keep pointing out, it's all about the venue. DOA is PG13, so there's no hardcore here anyway. Keep the PG13 fun here with the kids, keep the 18+ fun in the grownups' forums, & leave it be.

Hate to break it to you, but ABJDs already have a "bad name" = Grown people are playing with thousand-dollar dolls, giving them characters and backstories, talking to them, & then talking about them obsessively with their friends. If you actually care about what people think of your hobby, then dolly-erotica should be pretty low on your list of social worries.

I would advise not-caring-what-people-think, anyway. Saves your blood pressure.

 

· What are your thoughts on BJD photography showing scenes of a sexual nature or implying sexual content? Do you think that people who photograph their dolls having sexual intercourse is considered to be perverted or an expression of artistic form and love? What about if the sexual scenes are of a form of rape or abuse? Should people be allowed to photograph such scenes (photographs of this content are not allowed on DOA)
I don't care what people do with their dolls: I do care though that images could be used to offend certain groups, or have content that portrays violence/pain towards a certain section of society and glorifies it.

· How do you feel when BJD's are reffered to as being "Sex Dolls" by people from outside the community? Do you believe it's wrong for them to think such things when there are dolls such as "Full nobility royma" avaliable? What about Unoa dolls being created by a famous hentai artist? Mods such as the XXXL Dollfie Dream bust? The fact BJD's are often anatomically correct? Are all these aspects which contribute to people having a negative image about BJDs?
Glad this was brought up because I saw a cover of a BJD book and was quite disturbed by the naked doll on the front cover and its surroundings. If the doll was photographed laying in its box, or clothed, I wouldn't have given the image a second thought. But the doll is female, obviously prebusescent, and is leaning against a red velvet curtain (or similar). This sort of composition sends all the wrong messages about BJDs and no wonder people tend to see them as 'sex dolls'. My worry is the sexualising of child-like BJDs and how this may affect the industry as a whole. Some companies are guilty of this.

· What about the differences in culture between doll owners. Whilst one person may have come from a society where nudity and sex are considered to be beautifull things, another may have come from a society where such subjects are considered unacceptable. Is the cultural barrier something that changes peoples opinions on sexual content in doll photography?
I don't really know what affects peoples opinions on sexual content in doll photography, but I suppose cultural norms would have a lot to do with it. (I really don't want to go there with this question, I'll just rave on for paragraphs. )

· With so many nude photographs of real women and men out there in the world, why should photographing inanimate objects that portray similar statue to human beings be considered wrong? Would it be acceptable for someone to photograph a naked Barbie over a naked BJD? How do you handle just plain doll nudity in photographs?
Doll nudity is fine, whatever the doll, but then there is more to an image that just objects in 2D format. Every image has a message/s, and an image can be more powerful than words. How a naked doll is presented says a lot about what the photographer is trying to say.

· What about the need to find a romantic partner for your BJD? Whether or not they choose to engage in sexual activities or pose nude for photoshoots. Do dolls really need to have a girlfriend/boyfriend? What about same sex couples? Is it frowned upon to do such things seeing as they are "just dolls"?
If people need to find romantic partners for their dolls etc, I'm not going to say yay or nay to it.