Social Status

I have to agree with timid's point about writing; a lot of things are being drawn from subtext. Though there are times, to be frank, I have to wonder how people are reading novellas between two lines where there's nothin' but empty space.

 

There are people who only buy expensive dolls and think it makes them cool, and if anyone calls them on having an attitude whine about unfairly being called elitist. There are people who buy cheaper dolls and then worry that it makes them not cool and take offense when none is meant and have a real chip on their shoulders.

The people in those two camps have one thing in common: If your sense of importance comes from something as frivolous as what type of doll you own or don't own, then you have some serious self-esteem problems.

Then there are the rest of us, the overwhelming majority in my opinion, who fall in between those two extreme camps. Who are baffled that these discussions go on and on without end. Who can't understand why this issue always has to come up, when all we want to do is play with our dolls and enjoy watching other people play with theirs.

I also strongly suspect that if you could do a real assessment of people's financial or social status IRL compared to the dolls they buy, you might be very surprised. Just because a person is wealthy, it doesn't mean the only dolls they are going to buy are the most expensive ones. On the flip side, just because a person is struggling financially, it doesn't mean that they can't save up their money to buy a limited fullset.

And finally, I honestly believe that most people who only buy Volks dolls do so because they simply like Volks dolls, not because they are expensive and they want to show off. And I also just as strongly believe that most people who buy BBB/Resinsoul dolls do so because they honestly like them, not because they can't afford a more expensive doll.

 

I can see some company names being thrown around negatively, like volks being the snooty ones. Don't do that people. It just makes you seem snooty too. I think in all hobbies there are people that simply have opinions about whats the "best". Most people however don't care. All my dolls came from the same company (I had other companies dolls too but sold them). I really don't care who has what kind of doll. I mean whenever I meet a new bjd owner, their personality reflects upon their dolls. If someone's personality is terrible I'd see their dolls, no matter how "beautiful" and I just think of how rude the owner is making their doll ugly to me.

Cirquemom- AMEN SISTER!!!!

 

I can see dedication to specific companies being mistaken for looking down on other dolls sometimes. But I have to agree with most people that there usually isn't a clear social status issue, except for a very small minority. Most people who are in the hobby do it because they love these dolls, period. So it's always nice to see others who share a similar passion no matter what the doll brand is. Plus, the population of doll enthusiasts is still so small that people should be as inclusive as possible.

 

I agree with the above and most of the rest of April's post. A while back I mentioned that I have so far encountered only two people (out of over ten thousand BJD owners) who could be called elitists. So far I've seen several people tell those elitists to "go somewhere else".
One of those elitist has broken people's stuff (only minor damage) and handled people's dolls roughly or disrespectfully. She's simply no longer welcome at several meet ups, because of the simple rule "if you don't behave, you're not invited anymore".
I also agree that elitism does not equal to a tendency to damage people's property, but it may go hand in hand.

So why focus on the crazy when there are more sane and nice people around?

 

I think it's fun. I would like to have the funds to buy top notch, fresh made, and fullsets. Not because I think it would make me popular or higher up on the social ladder, considering I only know one person personally whom has a bjd and everyone else thinks it's either a waste or creepy (a few like them but would never buy one themselves). I do enjoy them even if it sometimes gets me negative people. I just turn right back around and ignore them, not worth it. Same as someone who may scoff at me at seeing my second(or third?) hand doll when theirs is new, limited, or anything else. Not that it has happened, but I'd give them the same respect as I have bullies in the past; none.

 

I wish people would see the few negative things that happen in that way -- that's 1/2 of the issue right there. The other as you also pointed out so well is people reading things into posts that just aren't there.

The way you just expressed your doubt as to the truthfulness of the story makes a lot more sense than Issen's accusations, though. Someone knowing the community a supposed issue happened in is a lot different than assuming someone is being untruthful based at least in part by what kind of doll they own.

 

I understand why some folks question the existence and validity of this thread. I asked myself that question. On the one hand, it is valid to say that the existence of this thread can inflame the problem (real or perceived) and B, the problem (real or perceived) is not going to go away simply by ignoring or refraining from discussion.

Why?

As expressed in this thread countless times, fear is the motivating factor. The fear of being the 'victim' of elitist comments or mistreatment.

I'd love to discuss that fear. To be honest, I haven't seen it discussed here - the fear itself and it's significance.
What have you to fear? What is really going to happen to you if by chance you run into a freak or a crazy that hates certain dolls so much that he/she throws them? Even something that extreme?
Sure, it would anger you and upset you but are you going to die over it? Will it make you leave the hobby? Will you dislike dolls from that point on? Will you lose your inheritance?
That's an extreme example so let's take it down a notch. Someone says they don't like your doll or your doll's outfit. What do you do?

Yep, initially you feel insulted/angry/hurt - then what?

How you handle that is the meat of the discussion, and truthfully, IMO, if you can't deal with it and process it and get on with it, you are going to struggle in all aspects of your life for the rest of your life.
Like it or not, there will always be a few nasty or nutty people out there that you are going to encounter in some environment or another. Just dismiss their behavior as THEIR problem and don't make it yours.
(The above being said lovingly and not snottily or in any accusatory manner) /disclaimer

The fear of being looked down upon - I don't even know if I can begin to scratch the surface of this. When I was younger, I was one of the most insecure, self-esteem-less (haha, yeah, I make up words) people. I won't go OT and anecdotal here but suffice to say that it interfered with my social maturity, and health. Somehow, I muddled through and overcame most of those problems of self worth with a little help from above and a lot of reality checks and a number of years spent on internet communities (yeah, that'll put some hair on yer chest).
Stop being afraid of what other people think of you. I agree with many posters here. Your own fears manifest themselves as perceived slights and even on the off chance that someone really does mistreat you or peer down their nose at you, what harm has REALLY come to you? Be like a duck my dearies, let it roll off your back - but then, if they threw my dollie? Well um, yeah, I'd probably get pretty nasty. Takes a lot to anger me but that would do it

 

Sorry but people are (if only slightly) influenced by the dolls they like and own. I do tend to think Volks owners are NOT nasty because I own some myself and I can admit that. People are typically defensive about their beloved companies and it taints their posts from time to time. I don't mind except when owners start throwing down victimized horror stories that serve no point on DOA except to further divide people concerning their resin.

Yet still, I have doubts about that story even after the the more detailed explanation. Even if a person did exactly what was posted they must have major behavioral issues and it has little to do with Social Status. But at this point I will leave it to the Seattle group to figure it out because as the MOD said no one can verify anything on DOA with any real accuracy.

 

I wouldn't go there usually but in this case, a personal experience is being used to back up a point in Debate. If she's going to bring it up as a case in point, then she should elaborate or back it up with something. Otherwise, it's no surprise so many people start questioning it when it's a story so vague on details.

Even if she doesn't or can't name names, there are still other ways to verify the story, especially as she said there were witnesses and there are people living in Seattle who frequent DoA as well.

I'm not trying to start a witch hunt or turn this into a court case. But when it comes to extreme stories like this, I think it can only be a good thing to ask questions. Otherwise, this is the way wild rumours start in the doll hobby, about an experience that might involve many but only one person is very sure of. A person prefacing a story by saying a place is known for its snobbery, describing in detail a violent act as proof of elitism but with no names given and no accountability from anyone.


Edit to note: If, however, any further discussion on the event is considered off-topic because of DoA rules, then I understand that as well. I'll just leave this to stand that I'm unconvinced about the personal experience that was related as an anecdotal point in this debate.

 

I have to say that sometimes people do read between the lines.

And just because one person says they only buy Volks or Bobobie, it doesn't mean they have some superiority issues. It might mean (like others have mentioned) that they just like the product. I like Dollmore because the only doll I have comes from there. I like what I got, and that also stands in terms of my Volks Dollfies. It's not always an issue of who buys from whom, or how one stores what. It can just be a matter of taste.

 

I would say that across the board, if all the dolls from all of the companies cost exactly the same amount of money, there would still be people who feel passionately about certain companies and certain sculpts. That is the bottom line.

I think the frustration in this debate comes when someone else who has never met you tells you why you like or don't like a certain sculpt or company ("You don't like it because you're a snob/reverse snob").

 

Totally agree.

Personally I don't really think this is much of an issue about dolls at all. Volks creates dolls, it doesn't create elitists. People will treat each other badly everywhere, and personally I think this hobby does quite well to avoid it.

 

I think the real problem is owners who have feelings of inadequacy about their own dolls. A person with a great doll setup doesn't attend a meet up to make other people feel inadequate, they are at a meet up to enjoy the meet up! I've seen people who claim if you dress your doll with Dollheart clothing you're an elitist. However, when I buy Dollheart clothing it's because I think it's cheap for what you get, not because I want someone else to feel bad about their doll!

I think if you feel your doll is inadequate (whether its the company, the clothing, the faceup, etc...) remember this: People DO NOT dress their dolls in nice clothing, or get nice face ups, or buy nice clothing TO MAKE YOU FEEL BAD. Doll collectors do things because they enjoy it as part of the hobby, not to make themselves feel superior at other people's expense. I think most the "elitism" people see isn't elitism at all.

No one in the train collecting hobby would argue that someone made an amazing setup for the sheer purpose of making others feel inadequate.

 

My understanding from talking to people in that hobby is that they have their idiots as well. Every hobby does, it seems. I don't know why it's taken so seriously in this one.

As far as meet-ups and Cons go, I generally take my least expensive doll (my Obitsu Gretel) because she was my first doll and she's still my favorite. If I take other dolls, usually it is on a rotating basis, or I will take dolls that other people may not have seen (like my Lumedoll Saiph). One of the most fun things about meet-ups and Cons is seeing dolls in person that you've only seen in photographs. It's kind of thrilling- like seeing a movie star in the flesh.

I don't mind people dressing their dolls in expensive outfits...especially since I design/make/sell clothes myself, lol. What I respond to is someone's love and enthusiasm for their doll. I've admired both limited perfect fullsets at cons, as well as some 12 year old's badly-dressed doll in a sculpt I've seen dozens of times. What I like isn't the doll itself, it is the affection in the owner's eyes.

 

So, according to DoA's rules, the one who posed that bit of inflamatory nonsense about how snooty Seattle is and how we all just ignore (or even accept-) such openly nasty dolly-abusers at our meets is free to post anything she likes without need of supporting witnesses or other evidence of truth, while those of us who are members of the group and disagree with her observations just have to sit on our hands.

Nice.

 

I know that, for me, it can be a little depressing to go to a meet and be surrounded by amazing, amazing dolls and realize that the pitiful little doll I've been laboring over looks like utter trash by comparison. I do think status comes into play there -- there will always be the more talented people in the hobby, the wealthier, the people who are able to create/achieve amazing beauty because they are, indeed, somehow higher up the social ladder. That's how it is with most every creative effort. That said, I don't think most people try to make other people feel bad about their efforts. Most people are very nice, and the most disdain they might show is slight glazing of the eyes when you try to show them your doll they might not like.

 

That's not quite how interpreted it. I think the mods choose to leave her post up because it only makes her look bad, because it's a ridiculous story, whereas if she gets attacked it makes the community look bad.

Or perhaps that's how I choose to view it.

 

You should never feel that way. I think many of us admire and value effort, no matter what the result. And I've seen your work and it's fabulous. I personally think it's nice to encourage people- I believe in positive reinforcement. Applauding a good effort gives most people the incentive to keep trying.

And throughout my long lifetime (I'm a hundred years old, at least) I have definitely found that there is absolutely no correlation between creativity and social status/wealth.