Social Status

Talent = social status????

 

No, that's not what I meant. I meant that there will always be people who are more talented -- meaning, higher up the talent scale. I'm not much for social climbing, so a lot of this stuff is mysterious to me.

 

I didn't mean to imply there's a correlation between wealth and talent, what I was trying to say (in my usually vague way) is that there are simply people who have more money, OR more talent (sometimes both) who are able to do things that I can't possibly do BECAUSE I don't have the money and talent. That's all. I'm not talking about society at large, just my own feelings. And because of my own inferiority complex, I tend to feel like I'm very low on the social ladder. But that's my own thing, and has little to do with the hobby in general. Hopefully, that makes more sense.

And I think it's awesome that you're encouraging and kind-hearted.

 

Ah, OK, I get it! And you make a good point.

 

^^This is true for me.

I hate it when people think they can insist that I'm something I'm not. And I'm sure there are people here that are just as angry when someone calls them 'elitist'.

And I feel for people who need to ask DoA members for validation for how their dolls should look. I've never had a feeling that my doll wasn't good enough. Sure, I've seen some bad faceups, but these people are a lot braver than I am. At least they try.

Thinking about this, the only thing that raises a flag for me is when someone says someone should not be in this hobby for reasons that don't mention total distruction of the doll. I don't like that some people think they can say who should have a doll; I think these few are the ones who make people so insecure.

 

There are also a lot of people in this hobby, let's be honest here and face it, who don't exactly have the world's greatest social skills. They can come off as unfriendly and aloof. So pair someone like this with a fancy limited fullset doll, and everyone is just going to assume they are stuck up and elitist. When actually- maybe they are just incredibly shy and that aloofness is their defense mechanism. Maybe they just really, really love that particular doll and so want it to have the best of everything, and feel like people will think they're crazy for spending so much on a doll, so they hold back a bit.

When of course, to the general public, we are all crazy, .

It seems to me like most people, no matter how shy or aloof or stand-offish or superior-acting they seem- if you make an effort to be friendly to them, they will loosen up and become "normal" (if there is such a thing). I've been in this "hobby" for about four years now, and in that time I have met a few people exactly like that- who seem very actually stuck-up when you first encounter them, but if you simply say hello, nice doll, whatever, they relax and open up.

There have also been a few people who just stayed stuck-up. So few that it's been really easy to simply walk away with them and find someone else who's nice, and leave them alone in their little corner with only their doll to talk to.

 

Wow. That was simply put and so well said. I feel the same. People just LOVE what they love and they get SOOOO enthusiastic. Maybe this comes off the wrong way from time to time but I like to give them the benefit of the doubt. The Doll Box lady sounds just crazy in love with her dolls and her way of expressing it is by keeping them ULTRA safe. Nothing more.

I remember once another owner was gushing to me about glass eyes from Japan. She just LOVES THEM and swears by them. We can’t conclude that she means to insult a pair of urethane eyes when she shares her passion for glass. She is just gushing.

 

This. Starting out in an established hobby on an established forum with over 10,000 active members can be intimidating. Some people come out of their shell, others stay in the background but are consistently polite...and then there are others who just don't gel for whatever reason.

I think the important thing to remember is, no one else is responsible for your (general you) enjoyment of the hobby apart from yourself. If you are worried about others judging you or your dolls, remember that your hobby is about your feelings and no one else's... you spend enough money on it, dontcha? Other people's opinions on your dolls matter only when they're the ones putting the money into your luxury doll.

I am sad when I see members say they feel bad about their dolls when they see other people at meet-ups with dolls dressed in Big Brand expensive clothing with Big Name face-ups and Big Brand wigs and eyes. Other people's hobby choices shouldn't make you sad, and they aren't enjoying their hobby in that way in order to make you feel inferior.

I do believe that as customisation is such an important part of the hobby, people should never be derided for trying their own face-ups or modding. You can only learn by doing and practice makes perfect. No one has done a perfect face-up first try or dyed a doll perfectly evenly on their first go. It takes effort, whether you're particularly gifted creatively or not. I like doing face-ups, but I'm not at a standard where I want my dolls to have the face I give them For this reason, I used to have a blank head to practice on and send my dolls out for gorgeous face-ups by other artists when I've had chance to save up. I get to play and practice my skills and I also have gorgeous faces on my dolls I think are stunning. It's not on a whim though, I do have to save and to plan for it, which I imagine, is the way a lot of other hobbyists do it too. There are more of us with limited budgets than unlimited disposable income, after all.

Yes there are elitists about, but there are elitists in every hobby, and the examples of true elitism in the BJD fandom are extremely rare and often exaggerated. First hand accounts of elitism are also extremely rare, often they're trotted out as examples from a friend of a friend, or a friend of a friend of a friend I'm not saying that the only cases that count are first-hand ones, but it does make me sceptical that there are very, very few first-hand examples of elitism at work yet the elitism card is played with alarming regularity.

 

Not at all! Please feel that you can defend your community!

The Debate subforum is a bit more fast and loose than the rest of the forums. We do expect a certain degree of maturity and level-headeness and so far this thread doesn't feel that heated.

Carry on.

 

Having seen your dolls in person, you are just too hard on yourself.

But I do agree. It can be incredibly intimidating.

 

I think that must of DoA people take this too much serious!
So.. in some meeting some girl was rude? Ok, i've been in couples of anime conventions and i've encountered some rude people (Quite worst than described here).
But one thing is sure, DoA have 30m+ members and only have couple of bad experience posted here!I thinkit's not bad at all!
In normal life you get contact with rude people often. Just Ignore.
Enjoy your life and your dolls.

 

So I thought about this thread while I walked home and I think that now is the time for me to apologize to pygmalia for my earlier post.

Whatever I might feel concerning the validity of what was said is irrelevant as demanding specifics would always be out of the question. Certainly I do not agree or always believe everything I read but I certainly don't need to flame anyone over it. Somethings are better left unsaid or simply said much more gently.

With that I will take leave of this thread as I don't appear to be able to post about "elitism" any more without getting mouthy

Sorry if this is OT but here is where I should say it if I am going to say it at all. Now back to the dolls in the boxes!

 

There are rude, nasty people in every corner of the earth. The way I see it, this hobby is blessed with very few of these.

I do personally believe that there are elitists in this hobby, as in every other hobby, but they are few and far between. Like hen's teeth-- a rarity to gawk over briefly should you ever encounter one, but in the end, not worth discussing ad nauseam.

Here's the thing. Every interaction takes two. So if you were to encounter the rare bjd elitist, you would have to actively want to be hurt/offended/etc., for the elitist's words to have an effect. Why not just let it roll off your back, like so much water off a duck?

:end bird metaphors

 

First, this is the case for every sort of art or really anything out there you can do. Whatever you do whether it is work, science, art, whatever, you can always find someone better, cutier, smarter, faster, braver, whatever... but in general, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't do it. That should never mean anyone else shouldn't try to do it. You have a unique vision and style. "Better" is relative and honestly... an opinion.

Second... you shouldn't feel bad. If you have one doll or 1 million. I know the Portlanders and they are great people. Reach out to them. I'm sure that a number of them can help you if you think your work needs help. But I have a feeling your stuff is good. Why are we the worst critics of ourselves?

 

What I find encouraging is that this debate hasn't deteriorated into the usual, "You are!" "No, YOU are!" that it has in the past. So that is really, really great and it seems like maybe, finally, this is getting somewhere!

 

I'm always horribly critical of anything I do. Unfortunately, it's sucked much of the fun out of everything. I really need to lighten up! Thank you for your heartening comments!

Back on topic, I'll bet that a lot of the people who come off as defensive, or as having chips on their shoulders are in the same boat as me -- they're just really insecure. I know that after someone ragged on one of my dolls on another forum, I started feeling like the whole hobby was hateful of certain types of dolls and doll-owners. But that was really just a knee-jerk reaction to having my (very squishy) feelings hurt and I find that the vast majority of people in this hobby are really nice and very encouraging. Maybe there's elitism, maybe there isn't. Frankly, I think it's all just a matter of personal perception.

 

hahahaha...ehem, sorry if I laugh buuuut i knoooow exactly how you feel...It's very strange to me when I show one doll (expensive one), people get ooooo, so cuuute...oooo niiiice..sweet, bla bla bla...but when I put not famous/less expensive doll, they are just silent (^o^)''...Oh well...I also have an experience with someone who doesn't respect my doll. My first dollmeet and I don't feel i want to come in such a dollmeet when the people have the same attitude. I really want to laugh when people are trying to show that this doll hobby has to do with exclusive or priviledge things...Once, I read in an fb, someone was like 'bragging' the doll price she has...haha...oh, dear...

It's annoying when I see those kind of 'high' social status people but now, I just try to laugh at the situation...It's very funny that this doll thing that I thought first as a hobby but apparently to some people it can be something that show their social status or something to be brag. I thought, hobby is = fun&sharing, not =bragging/social status thing...haha...

About keeping the dolls in the box, I do the same but not because they are expensive or so but because my house gets a lot of wind coming in. It slams everything: windows, doors. It's like a 'wind-road' (^o^)'''. And also, because of that, dust can easily enter my house even i've sweep the floor and clean the dust in furniture...I simply don't want to get my doll dirty that's all...I treat my cheap doll the same as my more expensive doll...

May be, she was saying it in kinda of snob tone so you have that kind of feeling?

I have no worries myself when seeing people with expensive doll though...what I see isn't their brand but how they present their doll (clothes, style, face-up)...when expensive dolls are presented with a so-so style, it looks a so-so no matter what. My friend bought a a doll second-hand but she has a big passion toward it. I love how she dresses-up her doll. Very inspiring and moreover, she also has a good attitude toward other doll. I wish we can have a dollmeet someday...

 

I haven't been collecting BJDs long enough to chime in on the issue of any correlation between social status and collecting style / level of talent / wealth... but I have been collecting artist dolls and artist items for over a decade... and I have to keep all of my things in their boxes. For me, it has nothing to do with status and very little to do with value. My motivation for doing so is that I have to relocate often, and I would be heartbroken if my dolls/collectibles didn't survive each move. Their boxes are the safest place for me to keep them...

Some day when I'm able to stay in one place for more than a few years, and my children are grown (and no longer the little tasmanian devils they seem to be at the moment ) I will finally be able to take out my favorite "toys" for good, and enjoy them the way I would love to do now.

Although I WILL miss the pixie dusting my Fairyland dolls have right now... once they are regulars on my computer desk, getting their clothes changed often, I bet that's the first thing to fade. I love the glittering they have right out of the box!

 

Woah, woah, woah. I was happy to leave this as it was but alluding that I should stop talking about this because of the rules you quoted on good manners, no flaming, no dramas, staying on topic when it was another person who brought this up and continued to defend this...? I believe I have been polite, tactful and as non-inflammatory as possible while being direct. In fact, this post is probably a bit less mild than all my other posts here.

Look, it might be an uncomfortable situation confronting someone about the veracity of their story but that doesn't automatically mean I was rude or flaming her.

And now, I'm leaving this to the people in Seattle to defend their own rep if anything else comes up on that topic.


Back to this specific thread topic:

I really, really like this point because I think this is one of the big contributing factors to the view that elitists number a many in our hobby. To sum it up: Misinterpretation.

Let's face it. This hobby isn't a normal one and when you're meeting up with a group of people holding dolls in public or at a stranger's house (especially if it's the first meet), social interaction can be really difficult for some. There are people who seem so standoffish, clutching their own expensive dolls, taking photos on their own...it might seem like snobbery. Some even consider lack of attention paid to other dolls at a meet to be elitism. I think we shouldn't try to read too much into the actions of people in such a situation.

I do know there are elitists in this hobby. But they seem few and far between. Unless someone outright says something very snobbish/elitist, then we shouldn't be so quick to perceive them as one. Less reading between non-existent lines might be required.

 

Completely agreed.

"X is my favorite brand." == "X is my favorite brand."
"X is my favorite brand." != "X is superior to all things that ever were or ever will be. In fact, everything else is made of the tears of small children, rusty nails, and broken dreams."

"Most of my dolls come from Country." == "Most of my dolls come from Country."
"Most of my dolls come from Country." != "Did you know that in OtherCountry, they make precious baby kittens work 27 hours a day making dolls out of sulphuric acid and reconstituted newsprint? And in YetAnotherCountry, it's even worse. There? They totally use puppies, too. At the same time!!!!"

"I don't take my dolls outside very much." == "I don't take my dolls outside very much."
"I don't take my dolls outside very much." != "The outdoors will steal your doll right out of your hands and there will be vines growing out of his neck even if you're careful. Your neighbors may, in fact, mistake you for a bear attempting to eat a neighborhood child if you remove your doll from the protective shelter of your home, and may shoot you. Also, the sun is evil and should be punished."

Yeah, they're over the top examples... but they had to go way over the top to beat some of the actual examples I'd actually seen and didn't feel like being accused of referencing. How sad is that?