Social Status

It is a very interesting topic indeed. I do agree that there are elitists out there and I am pretttttyyy sure I have seen some in meets and gatherings (I used to go to some but not anymore). Sure they have pretty dolls and everything but they just don't mix and mingle with the other with dolls 'less valuable' than theirs.
I think some people want to be above and beyond the normal collectors but as for showing social status, I don't think so. Maybe within the community itself, but in life in general, I'm pretty sure we're a bunch of weirdos to a large majority of people no matter how much you spent on your dolls. Based on my experience, the more you spend on them, the weirder they tend to see you

But then again, who cares about what other people or collectors think. I don't think there's an established social hierarchy in this kind of hobby.

 

The importance of social status is EVERYWHERE, it's in EVERYTHING, and probably in EVERYONE! From the cars we drive to the places we dine, to the shoes we wear, and the dolls we buy. It's typical of American culture to give an inflated or graduated persona, we live above our means. And we will always declare that we are above our actual status: socially, financially, educationally, etc.

"American society is marked by a central stress upon personal achievement..." ~ Robin Williams

 

I agree with DanceCat. Everyone, to an extent, feels the need to showcase what they have and what status that gives them. It may not even be a conscious action in some people, but it is there.

There are elitists. There will be in every hobby on earth. Some elitists are brand only, or faceup only, or company specific. I'm sure there are just as many Dollzone and Bobobie elitsts as there are for Volks and Soom. The good thing about this is that it's made this hobby have no specific hierarchy (like with Lolita fashion. Holy heck and you though BJDs were a dramatic hobby!) so from within the hobby it doesn't feel like anyone has status over anyone else.

But personally I think that yes, in a way this hobby does show a social status in certain circles. Have you been to a con and heard 'oh I love those dolls I wish I could afford one!' from a fellow attendee? Whether or not you mean to, you've just shown status to another person. You're someone who can afford an expensive luxury item that they cannot. (Because.. guys.. our sense of 'expensive' is pretty skewed. I looked at a doll the other day and was like 'oh she's only $500!' before I realized how much money I was really talking about.)

 

A lot of other countries are guilty of this as well. In my personal experience Spain and the UK are not much better. Nor is BC in Canada etc...

 

Well, in my part of BC social status would align more with the lower priced doll tribe sneering at the higher priced doll tribe . . .

Actually, in both Canada and the US, I'd say it's at least as common to play it like you're of a lower financial/educational status. Look at all the really rich folks being folksy and down-to-earth on TV (politicians being especially bad for this). The reason you may see less of this within the BJD hobby specifically is because there's no particular need or space for anti-intellectualism within it.

 

I think Timid has a good point, in the UK in particular the accent has always been on paying less for something, getting more for your money. People who pay a lot for a commodity were seen as a bit naff and pathetic. I never tell my friends how much my dolls cost because they would be appalled, just like people don't like to talk about how much they paid for their car or their holiday unless they somehow picked up a bargain! Even incredibly affluent people generally try and play it down because it's seen as vulgar.

I used the past tense because there is a strand of "celebrity" culture that is incredibly "wealth as status" oriented that seems to have taken hold in recent years. I'd say that's still just a section of British society though, and one that I can't really imagine getting into BJDs!

Back to the supposed "elitism" issue, I really don't see it with BJDs (I probably posted to the opposite effect way back, I'm nothing if not inconsistent) because there would have to be collusion on a lot of people's part to say that Volks (just an eg) are the BEST dolls out there and unless you own Volks you are a social outcast... that's just never going to happen. This forum is just too big and there are too many doll companies out there producing wonderful dolls at all sorts of price ranges. You are obviously going to get little groups within the mass, those who love Soom Monthlies, the Full set brigade, the Frankendolly Modders, etc, etc... but the one thing I think 99% of the people I've seen posting on DOA have in common seems to be that we are all floored by, and respectful of, what other people create with their dolls. Doesn't matter if the doll is Japanese/Korean/Chinese or how much it cost, it's what we put into those dolls. Some of us do it ourselves others save up and have the end result created for them. Doesn't matter, we all pour a lot of love and time into our dolls and the majority of people here just like to share that with like minded people. I think the majority of the cases of supposed Elitism are just projection, plain and simple.

 

That's more the way it is in my family, and generally in any of the social circles I run in, too. Everyone has their money pit hobby or pet vice, but very few are ever even slightly 'showy' about it, and no one talks about price tags without it being very uncomfortable.

In my family's case, I think it's a bit of an artsy thing. To be fair, a lot of the things we own that are 'expensive' in some way are art items, and wouldn't be immediately recognized as something costly in the way a big house, flashy car, or wall-sized television set might be by the casual observer. My mother, for instance, has some pottery that's into the low four digits -- but unless someone knew the artists or recognized the pieces, which are current (and it's really doubtful, these aren't from big names of any kind), they probably couldn't tell them from the $25-range pieces that are scattered around otherwise.

There really are some folks that just do not buy into the conspicuous consumption thing in the way many often assume is universal.

 

Thank you for the best hoot of laughter of the day!!

As Surreality just said -- and others have said repeatedly on this and other topics -- be careful how broadly we paint with that brush. I will tell you EXACTLY what my educational status is (two Masters and ABD that will never be completed as a doctorate... none of which was earned because I'm a particularly grand scholar, I just work hard.), and since I came from a working-class family and currently have no social life that's not really an issue either. Nor do I live beyond my means AT ALL -- as several of my coworkers and I agree, we'd far prefer to have our pet hobbies or projects and live in really modest homes with decidedly out-of-date furnishings and drive old cars.

Yes, I realize you didn't mean that to be a statement that applies universally. But since you did use the word "always" I did want to point out that there are a great many of us who live quite nicely within our means.

Which is exactly why I was able to snag one of those 20 Pharoah Zaoll Luvs -- and why it says absolutely NOTHING about my social status other than that I like tan Egyptian themed dolls

 

There's a difference between personal achievement and inflating one's own importance, though. As for over exaggerating social status, wealth, achievement, that really depends on the individual or maybe the group you're interacting with. That's not something I see too much of to be honest, though I'm sure it exists in some circles. It's true that there is an interest in celebrity, but when it comes to day to day living, spending money like it's going out of style is not always looked on well -- and I should definitely say that there are certain things that are more ok to spend money on, and anything else expensive would be weird, a waste etc. Even with celebrities, there seems to be just as much interest in tearing them down or watching reality tv for the train wrecks than because people aspire to the lifestyle.

Also, it's not really pervasive in everything that we do. I can think of instances with my own hobbies and interests where it sometimes comes into play and yet in other places you never see it. The actual importance of social status depends wholly on how much emphasis an individual decides to put on it and how they choose to interpret the actions of others.

 

I kind of have to laugh at what that implies; which is that everyone on this forum and in this doll hobby (including the members we have from over 22 other countries and cultures) all live in the way of the "American Lifestyle". I always love those assumptions in debates that the whole world = America. This thread is about social status in the doll hobby, which is a very international hobby. It is not a hobby only in America.

 

I also laughed, because not every American is living the "American Lifestyle" DanceCat described, either. Quite a few of us are not interested in accumulating crap in an attempt to define our social status. And many of us live well within our means, just like people in other countries!

 

It's especially ironic considering this is a "hobby" that started in Asia, is tied in with Asian culture, and demands a certain "Asian Aesthetic".

 

How we interpret the behaviour of other people is our own responsibility. Unless a point blank statement is made "your doll is cheap/sucks/isnt as good as mine" then maybe its time to consider the meaning you attach to others and their dolls.

Saying that - every doll owner I have had the privilege to meet has been as excited as me at connecting with others in the hobby and I've never once seen or experienced any sort of behaviour thats described in the OP they have all been a very friendly and lovely bunch of people who own anything from LE's to dolls from the under $100 bracket - I've not seen or experienced any thing that could be perceived as elitist behavior...

I second this The Asian influence unfortunately doesnt extend as far as imprinting us all with gratitude and respectful empathy

 

I got the impression that DanceCat was referring primarily to the culture of the US, as opposed to worldwide culture, in her overarchingly broad statement.

Definitely, it's a huge, worldwide hobby now -- which to me is part of its great appeal! (Asian Aesthetic be hanged, that's a load of tripe. But we won't go there).

But even if, giving her the benefit of the doubt, she was referring only to the culture of the United States (keeping in mind that "America" is actually an entire hemisphere - North, Central, and South America) it was STILL too broad.

One gets the sense of a statement that comes from believing what the media says rather than what can be observed.

 

SOCIAL STATUS Also, being implied ~ I looked up definition of the word SNOB:
"One who tends to patronize, rebuff, or ignore people regarded as social inferiors and imitate, admire, or seek association with people regarded as social superiors. ~ One who affects an offensive air of self-satisfied superiority in matters of taste or intellect". It can touch on anything, and is probably basic in human development. I'd guess it is present in some way in every culture on the planet.

Ranking people based on their "stuff" (or something like their family) cuts both ways. Some might look down on another for having what they perceive too many or spent too much as well as deciding they don't have enough or the right stuff. I don't buy dolls with any thought to how many points anyone else might want to assign to my choices. I do want to create beauty and express emotions or art that others can enjoy along with me. I get wonderful pleasure out of admiring the photographs posted by other doll collectors. I just met my first doll collectors in real life last week and they were awesome. She has one doll, and I have ____ [a lot] but I felt great admiration for her, and her fiance who hasn't bought a doll yet, but plans to... I'd like to try to explain that but it might wander off topic.

When having fun with a hobby there is no right or wrong, just as there is no right or wrong favorite color. We gain joy, relaxation and self expression from our doll worlds in an endless number of ways.

This is a P.S. Edit -- in case not clear, in my first paragraph what I'm saying is that if people are going to have status concerns/issues our hobby is as good a place as any to express it or project it coming from others.

 

I never knew that owning a fullset could be considered a social class! One of my dolls is fullset that I paid more for than I want to admit, and some could interpret that as me trying to achieve a high social status. The reality is that she is my grail doll, and it wouldn't matter if she was $200 or $2,000. I just had to have her. Most expensive dolls are that way because there is high demand, thus the price skyrockets. That's not the buyer's fault that they've fallen for an elusive sculpt. Even my Migidoll Miho is a dream doll of mine. I love my Migidoll the same as my Sooms. I'm even planning for a Resinsoul Song to enter my doll family. I buy the sold out, LEs first, since they're the hardest to get. If there's one up for sale, I get panicked that I won't see another.

I'm sure there are people like that out there, who want to be classed and divided, but assuming that about people without understanding isn't really fair

 

Well I certainly am not going to use my doll as a status symbol... I'm poor as crap, I couldn't. The only reason I can get my doll is because I've been willing to forego a lot in the effort of saving for him.

 

Personally I'm much more interested in the actual creativity and effort spent on creating a doll, rather than money.

The people I really admire in the hobby aren't the people who spend the most on immaculate fullsets. Let's face it- anyone can do that, if you have the money. Money is easy to spend! I mostly look up to the people who can skillfully craft everything for their doll, clothes, wig, faceup, etc. That takes some serious talent and hard work. I do my own faceups, but sewing and wig-making are completely beyond me, so I admire anyone who can do it well.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think fullsets are bad or anything, and there are some gorgeous ones out there. But I love seeing a doll whose owner has spent time and effort creating everything it has. There's something so magical about it!

 

Of course, there are usually snobs in every community, but I honestly haven't experienced much of that here.
I know a lot of people who keep their dolls mostly in their boxes, but many of those keep ALL their dolls, regardless of price, in their boxes. Some are collectors, and are afraid of yellowing, some only use their dolls for pictures, and may also be afraid of yellowing, some keep them in their boxes just to protect them from dogs/cats... or maybe even children. But none of those I know are snobby. I think it might be just as snobby to have an expensive doll exposed to sunlight all the time, because they MIGHT then signalize that they can just buy a new one when the one they have has deteriorated. Or they might just want to have their dolls out on display, and that's hardly snobby at all, is it?
If you see it that way, keeping them in their boxes definitely isn't more snobby than exposing them to sunlight, or the other way around.

What I have experienced some snobbishness about though, is whether or not a doll is on-topic on DoA. I have experienced that some people won't buy that specific doll because it's off-topic --> therefore, less worth than the on-topic ones. I have for example seen people who think less of, say, a Kaye Wiggs doll than a bobobie, for the sole reason that the Kaye Wiggs doll is off-topic.
Most people who fit in this off-topic-on-topic category though, seem to just be concerned that if the doll they buy is off-topic, they might not be able to sell it later if they regret the purchase.

 

I would have to say that if anyone used their dolls as a status symbol, within the hobby they might get laughed at, imo. o.o Most people buy what they love, not to gloat it over people. If you're not doing it because you want the doll, the most you'll probably get is a shrug unless your pictures are pretty o.o

Not to sound harsh, but not everyone likes the same dolls. So there's no one doll or company that absolutely everyone in the hobby views with a "ZOMG. DO. WANT." type of desire.

Most hobbiests only care about the sculpts they personally like/want. What others like or want is their business, and there are lots and lots of times where we all admire sculpts that we have no desire to own. So dolls as a status symbol, imo doesn't work.

I just think people like what they like, and stuff gets assumed about them just because they have a more/less expensive or diverse collection. Even though I do know of persons that are snobs about their collections. I do think they're silly for acting as though anyone else really thinks their collection is superior to anyone else's. Nobody cares about someone else's doll, more than one they have / want to bring home. :/