Social Status

I have seen it in other doll circles....yes, I think sometimes people can use it for social status. I have seen it at a gathering too. However, I just feel sad for these people. They really don't get to enjoy their dolls at all! What is the point of having them if you can't play with them?

 

I'm confused -- how does playing with them or not playing with them affect social status? Some people aren't as hands on with their dolls, but that doesn't mean that they don't enjoy them -- it's just in a different way. Differences in how one plays with dolls has nothing to do with perceived social status.

What really matters is how hobbyists treat each other. It is true that in any group you''ll get a few people who aren't so nice, but it also seems like many times people read things into other hobbyists' behavior that just aren't there. For instance, a person that might be perceived as being standoffish or unfriendly, might just be very shy. Someone who stores their dolls in boxes may love their dolls just as much, but they happen to not have a safe place to keep them out all the time. People might assume that someone with many expensive LEs is a snob in it for the status, when if fact they just love the thrill of the hunt that comes with tracking down rarer dolls.

 

I agree with those who say you put it on yourself. I think it's all in your head, as it is in any other part of society. People are only looking down on you if you think they are. It's honestly probably your imagination for the most part. If you think someone is scrutinizing against you and your doll because of what it is, then it's of course going to seem that way to you. Most people don't mean to make those faces or something, a lot of people have an issue with making the right face at the right time. Like me. I find myself making a funny face when I don't mean to, or no face when I should be. It's hard to explain...but I know I've offended people before and I've had to apologize. I know this probably isn't a normal circumstance, but who knows? Or maybe people are having a bad day or something?
I just think if you're quick to judge who you think is judging you, aren't you the one who isn't giving them a chance?

I feel like I can speak from both sides. I have a LE doll in a $200 outfit with an expensive faceup and ED special eyes ect ect. I also have a DZ boy with a default company faceup, cheaper clothing, and cheap acrylic eyes. I purchased him because I liked the sculpt. Not because he was cheap. Same with the LE. I bought him because I liked the sculpt, not because he was LE or whatever. I don't look down on people who buy Bobobies or AoDs or whatever. Because I'm sure you buy the doll because you like the doll, not the price. I don't really care for some of the sculpts that go for $2000 either. But hey, if you like the doll for the sculpt and not because it's SUPER LIMITED, then more power to you!

I hope I'm making sense...I just think a lot more people think like me and not how you think they're thinking ;D

/end rant

 

There is definitely a feeling of social classism, especially when it comes to "established" collectors and "newer" collectors.

I have had more than one DOA member say, after meeting me, that they were outright frightened of meeting me because of my demeanour online and the fact I own as many dolls as I do and seem to have...expensive?...tastes. That I don't really own any of the more affordable dolls anymore, I sold those I did own. Which is funny, but also quite telling. Oh no, I have multiple Volks, multiple Sooms, a frackin' horde of LadySaiyukis, I put most of them in Dollheart, I must be some rich snobby scary woman.

Then, when we're all at a meetup and people are showing off their dolls and such, and I have more positive things to say about certain companies than I do others, especially when it comes to certain sculpt designs and things like that. Personal opinions can carry a lot of weight, apparently, if you're an established collector and someone else is new. For example: Apparently, my not liking the way most DollZone faces are can make a new collector think I absolutely hate his/her doll, even if that's so not the case. Really, my opinion on the sculpt shouldn't matter to them anyway, much less any opinion I would have on their specific doll, but the fact that they DO transfer that opinion to the doll can lead to a classism and the feeling that "well, that Ophelia woman is a snob, she thinks my DollZone is UGLY!" This hasn't actually happened to me as I'm usually the one cracking bad puns while popping off heads to restring or things like that (and people realize I may be abrasive and blunt, but a giant goofball and doofus in person), but I have seen things like this happen to others at meetups and reputations get unfairly built.

It's a feeling of wanting to belong and wanting your doll to immediately fit in and all of this, and wanting your behaviour to be perfect so you're just like everyone else, I think. And then, when you end up (as always) being your own individual and your feelings being hurt, this sort of thing happens. And that's how these feelings of social status get started...this is my own theory, anyway.

If you keep your doll in its box, cool. Might be a bit unwieldy to bring to a meetup, but hey, that's your problem, so why should anyone else think anything of it? I really don't get why anyone else should care about storage of dolls unless it's clearly harmful to the doll such as in a sunlit window or in the dog's bed...

 

This is the best way I have heard this put, even in all the times I have seen the subject arise.

I think this touches on something important, too, when it comes to these situations -- it isn't always just the negative opinions about any given company that have people forming opinions, but that some people just don't investigate or think/speak positively about every company out there equally. It becomes as much about the fact that -- I'll use myself as a random example -- I spend a lot of time in the Soom threads talking about them, but not so much in, say, the Volks threads. (Trying to stick with companies with comparable price tags there since the comparison isn't about price point, but is more basic than that.)

When confronted with this kind of thinking from people, my eyes start crossing. They really do. Spending tons of time on things that haven't made my creative muses scream OOOOOH SHINY SHINY would be a full time job. (Heck, even spending time on all the things that do make them start vibrating with squee would be cumbersome on the schedule.)

 

surreality - Clearly, your Soom elitism trumps my Volks elitism. Help, I'm being oppressed! *snorts*

I do think there is elitism in the BJD world, but it really doesn't operate the way the ones with the persecution complexes think it does. The people with the most money who truly think their high end collections are better tend to be very private and stick to their own circles. They're not going to waste their time running around mocking the peasants because in the end they don't care and have better things to do.

The elitism that everyone whines about and gets butthurt about online is rarely elitism or classism or anything like that. This hobby does attract a lot of socially awkward people who are not good at reading social cues as well as people who willfully misinterpret them because persecution complexes are cool and make you feel special on the inside. Damn the man and all that.

I have a predominantly Volks collection. I love my dolls. I am damn proud of the way they look and am not going to pretend otherwise when someone asks me about them. I don't think I have ever treated another doll owner rudely at a meetup, though I have been treated poorly by others. The one time was hilarious and made me laugh and to this day it's one of my fave doll stories to share. The irony of a girl holding a Bobobie MSD commenting that I had "one of those cheap vinyl dolls" when I was there with my fullset Dollfie Dream Dynamite Ikkitousen girl whose retail was around 7 times greater than that girl's doll was great.

Not everyone will think your doll is the most beautiful doll in the world, nor will everyone think you are the bestest person in the world, but I don't see how this affects your ability to enjoy your dolls and your hobby.

 

There is always classism in any hobby, whether it's "I have Baby the Stars Shine Bright, you just have some crappy cosplay stuff" to You have a Koth? Well I have a Holo Venser." For few people it is actually that they see that the price or rarity of something makes them 'better' than others, and while they give a bad name for the hobby, they are usually really rare. But a lot of people feed that too, new people coming in or people who do value rarity as well will feed into those people's ego. I don't think playing with or displaying dolls has much to do with classism though, though a full set soom or volks whether you play with it or not is probably going to be viewed as 'better' than a Resinsoul doll, which is sad. I've seen beautiful RS dolls and some fairly poor looking Sooms. It all depends on how you view and treat your dolls no matter the company, but I would never talk down about any doll because I know that person loves them. I might not like certain styles or molds, but I know someone does.

On a personal note, this topic is a reason why I rarely post photostories or go to meets, I'm terrified as being viewed as 'lower' because I don't have a bigger, more expensive doll. I've tried to get into other hobbies with even worse elitism and I usually get scared away before I get too far because I don't have the money to drop at the time to get into a 'good standing' as it were. The only reason I'm still in this hobby is because I found it before I found the community and I've bonded with my girls to the point where I know I would probably cry if someone insulted them.

 

I would like to say that while yes, classism does exist in this hobby, it's been my experience that even the most elitist of the elitists is at least polite enough not to comment on a thread that they feel is beneath them. I've been in a lot of hobbies where the "higher class" will post just to snub you, and yeah, it ain't fun.

I love that in this hobby, I'm not treated differently now that I DO have one of those expensive, rare dolls. She gets cooed over and loved on at meetups, yes, but so does my ResinSoul/Impldoll hybrid. The only person who has treated me differently, ironically enough, is an elitist on the other end -- someone who looks down on anyone for spending more than a ResinSoul or an Impldoll would cost.

I didn't buy my Vesuvia for the social status. I bought her because I ADORE her. The same reason I own ANY of my dolls.

 

This may be a little off topic but I personally think you're doing yourself out of what can be a very positive experience. I can't speak for everyone but I know many people make very good friends through the more social side of the hobby, I've made some of my best friends through it myself and the fun I've had at meets far outweighs the occasional bad apple that might crop up.

If you go to a meet with the preconception that people will be snobby or elitist you're probably just going to pick up on anything someone might unintentionally say that could be construed as negative even if it wasn't meant that way. For example one of my locals absolutely hates volks and sooms stylistically but I own dolls from both companies, does that mean she thinks she'd better than me? Hell no, it's a difference in taste and that doesn't mean we enjoy one another's company any less.
As Micchi said, even if someone isn't a fan of the sculpts you own or the way you style your dolls, unless they're just plain rude in general (in which case they're not even worth your time) no one's going to walk up to you and your doll and start insulting it, if they don't find it to their taste they probably wont fawn over it but that's not to say they hate you or your doll, people just have different tastes and senses of what they find aesthetically pleasing which isn't really something worth getting upset over, the world would be a very boring place if we all liked the same thing.

 

Granted it depends somewhat on the meetup group, but most of the time, you aren't going to have issues. At the meetups I go to (where I live there are several different groups within reach) people aren't snobby about each others dolls--people really seem to care more about having fun looking at each others dolls and hanging out. Money doesn't matter nearly as much as many people fear it does. I can't say that you'll never run into anyone that's unpleasant about it, but it's so much rarer than what gets made out to be.

I think often times someone has a bad experience or an experience that they construe as being negative, they tell other people, the stories get passed around and suddenly it seems like DoA is full of elitists and people at meetups are rude when the reality is quite different. Also, people will tend to see what they expect to see. If you go into a situation where you fear that you will be looked down on, you're out of your comfort zone and already not feeling confident, it's easy to start misconstruing what is actually innocent behavior and comments as being negative.

It saddens me that people get scared off by hobbyists blowing the whole elitism issue way out of proportion.

 

Here's the thing you have to realize, though: not everyone thinks this, and it isn't even a common sentiment. In fact, the only person I've seen express this sentiment in this thread? ...is in the comment I just quoted. The fear of the problem is quite disproportionate to the problem itself; people keep saying this, but the myth seems to persist regardless.

To give you some idea, I have six Mecha Angels sitting not ten feet away from me right now, which I suppose falls under that heading of 'big flashy special' by the nebulous, and perpetually hard to pin down 'them' -- whoever they are. At a meetup, I'm going to sit one of them off to the side and then peer around curiously at everyone else's dolls, because I don't get to see their collections every day -- which makes them new, fun, cool, and different to learn about, even if I'm nervous about handling them. It doesn't really matter what brand they are.

(In other news, Kim, dammit, you made me snerk coffee through my nose and it had eggnog in it. I'm going to be smelling nutmeg for hours.)

 

I really, truly think this gets to the heart of the matter. I will only speak for myself, but yes, I am painfully shy (until you get to know me) and that may come across as aloof or snobby. I find it awkward to strike up conversations, and a lot of the time it's just easier to talk to a couple of people. I don't know how to be a social butterfly. But get to know me and I hope you'll find I'm not unapproachable.

The thing that makes doll meets so enjoyable for me is that I see a lot of people who seem to share these traits. Shy people, "different" people, the ones who were interesting in high school, not cut from the same cookie cutter, etc. Despite my shyness, I feel like I fit in. So I'm not going to read snobbery or elitism into any other person's actions, unless they are totally overt about it. Better to give people the benefit of the doubt, IMO, as I would hope they would do for me!

 

i admit, i feel looked down upon for owning a bobobie as my main doll, and i also admit me and my freind want volks dolls not because they're pretty, because we have hard times finding spectacular looking ones but just so we can say "HEY were not cheapos we got brand name here!"and sometimes at doll meets i feel sad that everyone else dolls are nicer than mine (least in sculpt) but i love my boy so much i dont care ill have whatever doll pleases me, even if its a 5 dollar one armed rotting baby with a hook for a hand doll

 

Bobobie is a brand name. I hope that you've read through the rest of this thread and realized that the vast majority of people don't care what kind of doll you have. If you are feeling like other people's dolls are nicer, then that is an issue with you and the doll, not other people.

 

I know there could be seen as a Social Status thing seen. If a person spends 1500 on a doll and has multiple dolls like that. But if you go to their house and it's in terrible run condition and the furniture is worn and falling apart - it all shows where people's preferences and values are.
On the way dolls are priced as in if I get the most expensive doll people will automatically think i'm awesome. But if I buy the cheapest doll people will think less of me. I hate this way of thinking. People should get the dolls they like regardless of price.
Sure you could buy 1 expensive doll or buy 3 less expensive dolls, it all depends in the end which you love more and would be happier with. I think if there is a social status at all it should be because of the way a doll is presented, looked at and taken care of. As such, all dolls are essentially a blank canvas and up to the owner to design, paint, whatever they want for it and I think that is much more important then the cost of the doll itself.
If anything, I think if someone buys a limited fullset, they don't have the right to brag about it like LOOK AT THIS, THIS IS SO AWESOME.. All they did was shell some cash out for it, The real social status stars and ones to be admired in that case are the doll sculptors, face painters and clothes designers.
I don't think the fact of someone keeping a doll in a box and protected for 99% of the time to be snobbish. Just personal doll care preference.

 

Speaking of social cues:

Your insecurity over your dolls is probably influencing other people. If you hide in a corner, ashamed over what you own, people are going to be scared to talk to you. Own it! Walk proudly into the room full of doll people. Be willing to talk about your dolls and why they make you so happy. Others will see how much you love them, and are thus more likely to open up to you.

On a side note, a friend of mine (who I met at a local meet up) owns a small army of RS/BBB and AoD dolls. The things she does with them is amazing. Tiny, detailed outfits! Home-made wigs! Beautiful pictures! I'm not a big fan of RS/BBB but I adore her crew. The love and attention she showers on them is fantastic and infectious.

 

you shouldn't feel that way at all.

I have a Resin soul as my only bjd right now and i love her more than any of the more expensive dolls i've seen.
You shouldn't feel bad about your doll because he is from a cheaper brand. If you love him the price is not what matters.
I've had many people who only own some of the more expensive dolls still comment that my doll is pretty and treat me the same as any other BJD owner.
It's sad that the price of your doll makes you feel like he'sless important and that you want an expensive doll just because it's expensive. People's opinions shouldn't decide what dolls you want.
If you love him the way you say you do you shouldn't have feelings like that so don't worry about prices or other people just how you feel about your doll.

 

Wait, what? If somebody purchases a fullset, they don't have the "right" to be happy about it and think it's awesome? Or show it off in photos? Because they themselves didn't make the fullset by hand? And their ownership of it makes them a snob?... And by the way, who bestows those "rights" upon anybody in the first place?...

I tried, but cannot follow this attempt at logic. Need translation.

 

This is something like the Star Wars vs. Star Trek debates. If you read a paper vs. watching show, you are not better than one another because that's how you get your news. If I love the Red Sox and you love the Yankees, doesn't the make us both baseball fans? If you have a Volks doll you love and I have a Delf doll that I love, doesn't that just make us both doll lovers?

The answer is, it just doesn't matter. It will not end world hunger or make people better neighbors.

 

That happened to me once when I met someone with a limited doll. I didn't want to know about the price, limited to xxx or even what kind it was... all I wanted was a picture LOL. My friends and I found it really funny afterwards.